YPbPr

There's a VAR in W's car now. That will provide plenty of intel IMO. It terms of legal here... There's nothing at stake. Marriage has only been a handful of months, all of our money is separate, no kids, and we rent. It's a clean break. I double-checked the gym. She's indeed there.

Shaggy

The fact that they do business is a huge strength when you expose. He is violating ethics by being in an affair with a supplier and she for being the supplier. Both companies are going to come down hard on the affair and that will help you kill it bigtIme
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YPbPr

That's the very difficult part about this. Exposing him could kill the business for my W's firm and put everyone at my W's firm in jeopardy of loosing their job since the account is so big. A lot more politics at play here.

I agree, exposing him at his company would kill the affair but it might take out the jobs of several other people too .What to do?

keko

If you W's company really depends on this job, then that company is already very shaky and people would lose their job regardless of the exposure. But I totally agree with Shaggy, ethically this is very wrong. Maybe a different company lost their bid because of this affair. In my personal experience, exposing an affair to the workplace is a good reason for companies to fire people and set an example, the business' rarely gets effected.

The other way you should look at is, "if someone messes with my family wife then I'll go against them with everything I got".

OldWolf57

Hi Y, sorry you here, but if you don't want to expose, and since the marriage is so young. then just pack her a few suitcases the next time she calls and say she working late. better yet, take them to her, the bar, the job, where ever. Ask her where she is, and when she ask why, say so you can bring her s##t to her. It is too early in the marriage for this stuff. What will it be like 10yrs. from now. Cut your loses man and wish her the best. She's in sales, and there are many a thread with cheating wives in sales hooking up, and ruining families. Is she going to change careers ? If she is developing EAs this early in the marriage, my man you are up the creek.

PHTlump

Even if the worst case scenario happens, and your wife's company goes bankrupt, that's not your fault. Your wife and her boyfriend did it. Trying to avoid the consequences after the fact is like a child murdering his parents and then asking the court to have mercy because he's an orphan.

YPbPr

Thanks all. Last night was so painful. I've been waking up in the middle of the night for about a week. In about an hour, I'm heading over to W's car to pickup the VAR. It's been recording for the first 24 hours. So afraid of what I'm about to find out. It's also difficult to ramp up to the 180. I'm thinking I need to start planning out my script for the 180 which could be started as soon as tonight.

She's back in the neighboring city today for work. The e-mails I found last week discussed a meeting with OM for this day (today). Last week, she told me she had to stay overnight "next Thursday" (now today) but when we had our heart-to-heart seven days ago she casually mentioned she wouldn't be staying overnight. For the record, she started reverting on that sentiment as soon as last Sunday. She left the house this morning saying she needed to figure out what the "clients" wanted to do after the meetings saying there might be a mandatory happy hour.

Here's a rough outline for the 180:

W comes home and I start asking lots of questions. How was work? Who did you work with? Where was happy hour? Who was there? What did you drink? What time did you leave?

My guess is that she'll start feel a bit interrogated at which point I'll say, I'm very uncomfortable with what's been going on. Are you seeing someone else? My guess is that she'll say no.

Next... Where were Monday when you called and said you were stuck in traffic. She'll say stuck in traffic. I'll say, Google maps showed no traffic. Where were you? When did your meeting end? You smelled like a different deodarant when you came home. You were extremely pensive that evening. Did something happen? Are you seeing anyone?

If denial continues, I'm going to say, "I know what you're doing. I'm willing to work on this marriage 100% with you but have to be honest with me right now. Who are you seeing? Has it gone physical yet?"

I'll have to wait and see what happens at that point. If she comes clean and wants to R, then I will suggest the terms: NC contract to be written immediately and called in to follow. Next, total transparency. If those are granted, then I will say we must get into MC tomorrow and see what happens.

If denial continues, I'll say, "I know you're lying. You're involved with another man and I won't be a part of an open marriage. If you choose to be dishonest with me then you must leave. Now. I have your suitcase here. you must take what you need for now and go. I don't care where you go but you can't stay here." I will then expose her to her parents the following morning explaining what happened the night prior.

keko

You don't have any hard evidence yet. Why not drop a keylogger in her computer whenever you have access? Put a GPS in her car to see if she skips work or stays overnight at the last minute?

bandit.45

Get more evidence first. You must build a bulletproof case and lay it all out in all its ugliness in front of her. If you don't she'll gaslight you and obfuscate. Put a keylogger on the computer and see what else you can dig up.
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turnera

Go in the bathroom, scoop up the phone in a towel, and take it and download, somewhere she won't think to look. When she comes out of the shower and accuses you of taking her phone, just shrug and say you don't know what she's talking about. Later, when it's done, sneak the phone back into the bathoom and hide it behind something, so she'll find it and think she did it herself.

As for what to do, do a great Plan A right now, until you get the intel you need. Look good, smell good, make her her favorite meal, show her what she'd be missing. Then, once you get the proof, you print out the proof and keep a copy at your work. Pay someone to get his parents' and siblings' phone number/address.

Once you have all that, you confront her and say you know she's cheating, you have proof, and you want her to stop. If she refuses, tell her to move out. If she refuses, wait til she's gone and sit down and call her parents and her siblings and her best friend, and his family, all within the same hour. This MUST be done all at once, because as soon as one person calls her, she'll start calling everyone else, telling them that you are abusive or crazy or whatever, so that no one believes you. People believe the first person they hear.

Then you just sit back and wait for the firestorm. She'll tell you she was GOING to choose you but now you've ruined it. That everyone thinks you're crazy. That she's going to a lawyer tomorrow. Just ignore it all. Offer her a cookie; makes as much sense as what she's saying. Just wait it out and see if she ends the affair.

If she still carries on with OM, you go to a lawyer and get a separation order started, and you let her know. Tell her you won't share her with another man and if she wants to see OM again, she can do so as a single person.

Women NEED to see their man strong like this, to admire them. If they don't admire them, they can't love them.

Or...since the marriage is so young, just move out. Make her chase you.

turnera

Just for the record, that is NOT a 180. A 180 means that you basically ignore her and live your own life and let her get a taste of life without you. Interrogating her just makes you look like a weak doormat. (and gets you no real truth anyway)

iheartlife

Everybody's watched so many movies, and they THINK they know their spouses so well. They think it will all play out like the last 15 minutes of the latest blockbuster.

YOU (good guy): I am on to you! You will never get away with this!

THEM (evil mastermind): Ha, ha, ha. Yes, I have been planning this for centuries. Let me take you on a convoluted explanation of how this master plan was formed and executed. I will keep talking and talking, just long enough for you to break free from your bonds or for the posse to show up. Now let me start from the very beginning.....


----------------

You need to take this in the OPPOSITE direction. Do not interrogate. It only reveals how little you know.


Well, maybe the blockbuster has one thing on you. In the movie, the good guy stays SILENT, and asks NO questions, and the evil mastermind does ALL of the talking.

brokenbloke

Don't confront yet. As a general rule you NEVER want to ask your WS what s/he is doing, are you in an affair, what's the extent etc. They will ONLY deny. What you do want to do is TELL them that you know they are doing x,y,z. You don't tell them what evidence you have, just that you know they are having an A. No further discussion or debate otherwise gaslighting and it becoming clear to WS of the extent of your knowledge. To that end in order to be able to TELL them you know they are having an A you need hard evidence, so wait till you do.

DONT ask her what's she doing. It will only reveal what you know, that you are on to her, get her to lie and cover up, and warn her to hide her activities better in the future. DO TELL her what you know once you have the hard evidence. Big difference between these two, but a vital one.

baldmale

Cheaters always lie when asked direct questions like "are you seeing someone else?" Mine did too. They never reveal more than you can already show them you know. Think about the lies they've already executed to be with their lover(s) and the level of deceit it takes to climb back into your bed at night. Really, stop for a minute and think about that. Lying now to your face to cover up the affair is a drop in the bucket and I actually think it provides them with a thrill to think how close you are to truth without actually knowing the full extent.

Bottom line: Don't confront without all your evidence. Like a lawyer, don't ask questions you don't already know the answers to.

YPbPr

Thanks everyone. The VAR revealed nothing other than her music choices and a phone call to me. I'm going to give it more time but in the meantime what should I do? I'd really like to have an "us" conversation tonight. If I give her the benefit of the doubt and assume nothing is going on wouldn't I want to talk to her about our relationship?

Rather than be accusatory, I figure we could simply have a conversation that talks about where we're at. A week ago she was ready to make it work and get MC. Then she back-peddled on that by Sunday. Last night, she had IC but didn't talk about it at all. Assuming there was no A going and this was simply about unhappiness, wouldn't I want to engage her about us (leaving the cell phone, dinner receipt, etc out of it)?