do the hysterical bonding it will be weird at first but the more you have sex the more you can overcome the mind movies and intimacy is essential to healing
also try this for the mind movies-
insert the absurd into the movie
imagine OM as a clown or dripping in puss, whatever it is that will allow you to make the movie silly
Although I am 100% aware that none of the blame belongs fo me, I can't help but curse myself when I look back. The first time they had sex was at a party one month ago. She asked me to go with her several times. It had been a 50 hour workweek for me so I just didn't feel up to it. I asked her not to go, but at the time I felt that I had no right to restrict her. If I had gone, this wouldn't have happened.
NO!!!! She's not a child! Stop blaiming yourself.
You're not her parent to control every step she takes because of being afraid she might make mistakes along the way.
Do you always have to keep an eye on her ? If yes then she's not worth it. Move on.
That sounds very stressful. What she did shouldn't have happened whether you were there or not! Period.
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I tried to kiss her last night, but she said we should take it slow - she doesn't want me to think of them.
WTF??
She should have been thankful to you for wanting to kiss her!!!!
What's wrong with her?!
The one who decides whether to take it slowly or not IS YOU, not her!!! You are the one who need to take his time, NOT HER!!!!
So if you took your time and you decided to kiss her then she should have thanked God and kissed you right away, instead!!
I had sex right of way I had to be better then the mind movies, I wasn't about "do it on the run". I took my time and made sure I was the better lover, I pushed all the right buttons that 20 years of marriage taught me.
It wasn't so much about fWW and OM as much as what I had to do do prove to my self that I had what it takes and showed what see will miss if I catch her again.
Sex is the glue brother, both of you need to get past it and show your fWW whos boss! There was even some role playing involved and some lite punishment, but thats just me.
If she refuses then you can get back to the tough love approach and ask her to leave, do a hard 180 and file, or take it. (not recommended)
If both of you want this then intamacy is just as important as her consequences.
Soon she will need to be rewarded for her effort (if there are any) and I can't think of any better reward then sex.
I think she is falsely in attempted R with you. She is still rejecting you in preference to him.
Major red flag there. I think you shoud try agsin and if you get the same rejection, then explain to her you understand how ishe must feel. Like she is betraying her affair partner,NAND that it's clear she isnt really willing to do the work necessary to earn her way to a seed chance.
Tell her its over, you're going to file for divorce and move onl Posted via Mobile Device
The therapist was fantastic. She backed me 100% but did it in a way that did not set my wife on the defensive, but still made it clear she had done very wrong. She supported my conditions for reconciliation and explained to my wife why I was not being unreasonable, again, without making my wife feel threatened, and my wife began to come around.
I don't like this part at all. Sounds like your therapist was handling your wife with kid gloves, so as not to put her on the defensive, and because she was so fantastic, only then did your wife "begin to come around". Where was she before she "came around". Why is she the one that has to be pampered so as not to get defensive, why is she the one that finally started to come around?? She's the one who screwed up, not you!
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Originally Posted by dauntless
If I had gone, this wouldn't have happened. Several times over the last few months we've had arguments and we both felt like we could have benefitted from MC. But we never went. If I had only made an appointment, this probably wouldn't have happened.
Seriously? You think it's your fault that the sex happened with her and the other guy because you didn't go to the party? You went to work to pick her up, and guess what? She told you to leave and the sex happened. It would have happened anyway, it DID happen and it's not because you did or didn't do something.
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Originally Posted by dauntless
I tried to kiss her last night, but she said we should take it slow
Yup, just like in the therapists office, it's all about her. She's calling the shots, she's running the show. This is extremely bad. You are not as nearly in control of this situation as you'd like to believe.
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Originally Posted by the guy
It was 2 yrs ago when I was were you are at now.
Imagine him farting when there kissing, or how clumbs and what a clown he looked like.....imagine him wearing a clown suit. Really it worked for me.
How does imagining the guy who f*cked your wife farting or wearing a clown suit help you get over the devastation of an affair?
profos, thank you for your harsh but honest perspective.
I do agree with you now about the therapist.
After a rough day at work which was essentially 7 hours of heart wrenching mind movies, I had decided it wasn't worth it. I left work early, intending to get home before she did so I could gather a few more items and be done. Unfortunately, she was early too. Words were said, and at one point she attempted to use the defense of "well the therapist said sometimes affairs happen because one person wasn't getting enough attention". That set me off, and I spent the next two hours relentlessly unraveling every shred of every thought she had built up in her brain to justify her actions and make herself feel better. I reminded her of the day I broke down and begged her to come home and spend some more time with me, and she said "Well, I'll try but I'm really busy these days.." and proceeded to cheat on me a day or two later. At the end of that week, maybe 4-5 days before D-Day, I attempted to initiate sex with her. She stopped me saying it hurt too much. When I asked why, she said probably because we hadn't had sex in weeks. Obviously, that wasn't the case for her, and adds ultimate insult to injury now that I get to imagine that he was so much better endowed than I am that he made her so sore she couldn't even have sex with me.
While it was probably not productive, it felt damn good to see her totally lose it, collapse on the floor, and bury her head. I was ready to walk - ready to be done. She begged me to try one more therapy session, and begged me to let her show me she will follow all my conditions for reconciliation. I'm not convinced it is possible to R, and I'm not sure I'm willing, at the moment, to take another gamble on what is quite obviously a lame horse.
She asked me to stay for dinner and she cooked for me, and after dinner begged me to stay the night with her. I did, reluctantly, but I didn't touch her.
You can bet I'm going to be taking a more aggressive stance from now on. I had let myself rugsweep a bit too much. I can't let her forget I'm hurt and angry. I certainly will speak up more in the next therapy session to make sure she's not getting off the hook. Either way, I'm still perched on my fence. I'm not willing to commit myself 100% to R until I see her commit 150%.
Also, before anyone asks, the reason I'm the one who left and she's the one in the apartment is simple. Even if she has shown she is heartless.... even though I am very angry and very hurt, I am not heartless. Her closest family is more than 6000 miles away. Her friends are being as supportive as they can, but after my swift and explosive exposure of the affair, they are hesitant to involve themselves. A lot of her friends are very unhappy with her. So, as much as I would love to have kicked her to the curb, I'm not that cruel.
Also, before anyone asks, the reason I'm the one who left and she's the one in the apartment is simple. Even if she has shown she is heartless.... even though I am very angry and very hurt, I am not heartless. Her closest family is more than 6000 miles away. Her friends are being as supportive as they can, but after my swift and explosive exposure of the affair, they are hesitant to involve themselves. A lot of her friends are very unhappy with her. So, as much as I would love to have kicked her to the curb, I'm not that cruel.
....and without doing that she wont understand what it means to be by herself. You need to make her face hard consequence's NOW. So if you do R she'll have an idea of what will happen to her if she cheats agan. Friend you're just rug-sweeping hardcore.
....and without doing that she wont understand what it means to be by herself. You need to make her face hard consequence's NOW. So if you do R she'll have an idea of what will happen to her if she cheats agan. Friend you're just rug-sweeping hardcore.
So I should put her out on the street to be homeless? I am genuinely asking. Is the logical and best step here to make her homeless while we attempt R?
So I should put her out on the street to be homeless? I am genuinely asking. Is the logical and best step here to make her homeless while we attempt R?
What you should or shouldn't do can only be determined by you. All Im saying is if you really want to salvage this marriage(for the long run) you need to make her face consequnce's and understand FULLY what she did.
If you're fine with her making you come pick her up from work while she screwed OM, then you should be fine with her being homeless for a while, minutes hours...
If she's truly NC with the OM, and you can verify this, then I agree kicking her out right now isn't the answer.
I think what keko senses, however, is that you are trying to just use threats of divorce or kicking her out. But there might still be a part of you that isn't ready to carry through.
We're just pointing out that you have to be ready to follow through, because many WSs do not hit rock bottom otherwise. WSs are drawn back to their affair--their fantasy life--like a moth to the flame. The pain and hurt of the loyal spouse WERE NEVER ENOUGH to stop the affair BEFORE the loyal spouse found out. So WHY should it be enough AFTERWARDS? I'm not saying that you are saying this--I really hope you're not. Because that logic is just baffling.
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On the subject of the therapist: I'd work on finding someone else. We found our MC via referrals from a sex addiction / porn addiction therapy group. They also treat infidelity issues in marriages. My counselor pulled out the book that I had already read (Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass), talked about NC letters and exposure, and made me talk about the most hurtful things I had read in my WS's emails to the OW and discussed them very frankly with my WS sitting there and acknowledging the pain. It wasn't mean, or punitive. Just very matter-of-fact.
The kid glove approach is based on this assumption that you ruined the marriage so of course she went and got something on the side. Infidelity counseling is based on the theory that if the marriage is worth saving in the first place, it could not have been so bad that it could EVER justify the WS's choice to cheat. (Needless to say, I don't think there's ever a justification.)
Please look into some other counselor, the last thing you need is an 'objective third party' teaching your wife that you are to blame for her stupidity. The implicit message: if you don't like things down the road, feel free to do it again.
If your going to kick her to the curb at least give the benifit of the doubt and move back in and give it some time. See if she can give you 150%...I mean how can you tell if you guys aren't even living together.
Just like many guys here I took a big dumb on my fWW, in the 20 years of marriage I never laid into her that hards, even after the hysterical bonding I still had to go down that road for my self. We are the lucky guys to watch there wife crumble on the floor will the unlucky guys watch the WW walk out the door.
Who knows, maybe its the other way around, but were me, beowulf and someother guys are sitting, we have come out ahead.
I just think you get back home give it a go and if it doesn't work then send her back home...knowing you at least tried.
thats my $0.02
No back to your question
The visions I use helped me take a way the images of the acts. The big picture of her 2nd lifestyle of adultory is more harder to deal with. For me, after awhile it was just the behavior, after its all said in done, at the end of the day she had a very dangerous and unhealthy life style.
With that said, I have sat back and watched her go to IC, stay away from TF and make the changes that showed me true R. So everytime I start to think about her old life I force them out by looking at what she has become.
The 1st year there were alot of MM but with her help they faded away. She told me some crazy stories about what she did and after awhile it just a bad porno to me. Sure I'm wired different then most with my views on sex. But as time pasted, and even now, it is more about her emotional weakness and just the simple fact that her moral compass created this kind of behavior.
I quess these days its not so much about the many details, as it is the big picture of were my fWW was at with her behavior in general.
The easiest way to say it is,that its more about why she did it instead what she did, and now I see a changed person, both in the mirror and laying next to me in bed.
I hope it makes sense to a very senseless issue such as adultory.
I simply don't see how this cannot be a deal breaker: She made you come back and pick her up again from work while she screwed the OM. This has to be one of the worst humiliations I have ever read. I bet if the roles were reversed she would be with an attorney right now.
I really think that one of the reasons why she felt she could do this to you was that deep in the back of her mind she felt if she got caught, you would still forgive her anyway so she really had nothing to lose.
This had to be the ultimate in disrespect toward you and your marriage. Like I always say: If you do not respect yourself then who will? Have you both been tested for STD's?
I though she got a ride from a girl friend when she came back home. At the end of the day she cheated and now you are on the fence. Its up to you to investigate her commitment and see if she is taking the action to repair this. Living apart wont' you give you the confirmation to through her to curb.
Lets avoid some regret and take the step to make sure you can walk away from this knowing you tried everything.
You might want to get feedback from her regarding changing jobs. Her willingness to do so is a positive sign, if not then you can start by packing her bags.
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Re: Everything can change so quickly... 
