Yes, I've felt throughout that there's also substance abuse involved vs. "just" the fog of an affair. My view of the 'fog' is that it makes an affair difficult to end, and it does explain certain types of irrational behavior, but a lot of his bizarre behavior has nothing to do with furthering the affair.
I wouldn't be surprised if they "get in touch with the spirit world" via hallucinogens. Maybe LSD or whatever it is that people use these days that makes you see things that aren't really there.
just google hallucinogen or lsd and paranormal--you will see it's used to "develop paranormal abilities"
I also found some university survey study that found that people who smoke pot are more likely to believe they have ESP (amazing, init? what profound insights they have that the rest of us don't )
It would all be so funny if there wasn't a little girl's breaking heart involved and a family being destroyed.
I honestly don't know if he can get much lower than he actually is. I'm amazed by how far he has fallen in such a short time.
The more this unravels the more I understand that this is about him and not me. He's an absolute mess.
Sounds to me like he is having a mental breakdown. Or that that episode with his heart physically affected him - mentally.
You and your daughter are reminders of his massive errors and stupidity. You are symbols of normality, and his whole life now is not. Even his other woman is not. Nothing is. There4 you and your daughter are symbols of pain. And all of his own doing.
If you want to be there for him, just let him know that. Let him know that if he feels he cannot cope and needs support, you will be there for him (he needs medical help...but don't tell him that or you will put him off with your 'criticism and judgment'. If you don't want to be there for him, stand back and watch the meltdown of a life and a man. It should he entertaining...if you go for that kind of thing (I haven't read your other posts BTW so could be completely off the mark).
Definitely I would put £20 on a mental breakdown. All the signs
I just looked this up. Scary. But I could see this group 'smoking the peace' pipe. A few members of the group follow nature based religions so I can see how some of this might play into that.
I'm pretty open as far as religion goes and think people can believe what they wish. But I think this group is taking it too far in an attempt to defy social norms and feel "different".
You know what..I need to cut this loser loose from my heart. He isn't who I married and I can do better for myself and my daughter. If this is who he is now I certainly don't need or want it in my life.
I grew up. Apparently he didn't.
And I believe that at some point all of this nonsense will blow up and his little bubble of fantasy will be punctured. He has isolated himself within a group of people that function in the same disfunctional way. I think it will get harder and harder for him to function with normal and healthy people as our views are more mature and radically different.
No Remains I think you are spot on. I do think he is in for a hard melt down I just don't know when. It's been coming for a while. And he has surrounded himself with people who are supporting his total unraveling.
But I won't be there for him. Not this time. He has made it totally clear that he 'does not want to be married and he should have left me a long time ago'. This OW can support him when he falls apart.
And he probably does need some medical help. I think this is part of why he refused counseling. My daughter told him a month ago that i wanted her to speak with a counseler. His response to his 12 year old daughter was "Counseling is for people who are crazy. You and I are not crazy.
You are dealing with bizarro world. That is where your husband is at, in another world. I have a brother in law that is into weird stuff, conspiracy theories, health supplements, etc. He basically bankrupted my wife's sister and her husband. My wife's sister's husband is dying of cancer and more than likely has days or weeks at the most of living and my other brother in law convinced them to take this miracle cure that is very expensive and my wife's sister (who has no money due to her husband's illness) maxed out their credit cards for this crap. They can't afford groceries now. So people get into weird stuff and it drives them. They hook up with folks on the internet that share their same views and it feeds them. They do not want to listen to reason, because they are right. In my BIL's case, his health is failing and he keeps pushing expensive supplements. I told the family if these things are so great why isn't working for him? Then we have a dying BIL and all they do is push expensive crap and bankrupt them, instead of reaching out and showing compassion to a dying man and his grieving wife.
Like my one BIL your husband is in a cult. The bizarre change of dress, being controlled, not having contact with outsiders, shunning a "mole", is all cult behavior. I have dealt with people in cults and it is difficult to break out of them.
It is difficult to reason with them because they share everything with the other members and the ones who are controlling the group will manipulate everything that is said to them. If you tell your husband that he is in a cult or is crazy, he will tell the other members everything and they will counter with their spin. He will be told, no one cares or understands you like we do, we are your family, we are your true friends, the world (including your wife) is against us because we know the truth, we have insight that no one else has. We and you are special. I could go on. It is brain washing and a person with a broken soul buys into this crap and feels special. There are religious groups, militant groups, a whole host of groups like this.
your husband is lost but he thinks he found himself. This is not about you. It never was. We can say it is fantasy but to your husband this is the real deal. If it is drugs that could explain some of his behavior but I have seen the same behavior when people get involved in cults or other weird stuff.
I know your world has been turned upside down and I do not have answers because none of us here on TAM or yourself know what the heck is really going on in his life. All I can do is give you a hug and tell you to hang in there and hopefully you can move forward and get some answers.
This kind of cosmic dumbassery occupies a temporal plane of ineptitude and lack of reason so profound a Zen master could spend a lifetime meditating upon its philosophical consequences.”
"It is difficult to reason with them because they share everything with the other members and the ones who are controlling the group will manipulate everything that is said to them. If you tell your husband that he is in a cult or is crazy, he will tell the other members everything and they will counter with their spin. He will be told, no one cares or understands you like we do, we are your family, we are your true friends, the world (including your wife) is against us because we know the truth, we have insight that no one else has. We and you are special. I could go on. It is brain washing and a person with a broken soul buys into this crap and feels special. There are religious groups, militant groups, a whole host of groups like this."
Thanks for this Thorburn. This hits the nail on the head. He started referring to them as his family back in the fall. I started pushing him to take a break back then and then he began to withdraw completely. I told him he was obsessed and really needed to take a break and walk away for a bit. Next thing I know members of his team were posting odd comments about "Love me for who I am or let me go". Obviously directed at me. And he just pulled away completely. He did in fact meet all of these characters on the internet. I have been concerned for a long time now that it was becoming very cult-like. And he has turned against me completely - I am the enemy.
This gives me some perspective. I am glad to hear others say that this behavior is really unusual because I was truly starting to believe that I was being too hard.
I think he is in so deep that it could be a long time for his to break away from this if he ever does.
I filed for divorce. We are fully in the process. I don't think I can require that unless I can prove that he has a problem with drugs and I can't. I don't know if that is part of the equation at this point. I did ask my attorney that question though. : )
WhereAmI - It is pretty strange. It's sort of hard to even imagine. I actually did some research on cult psychology during my lunch break and it's a dead ringer for his behavior. With that said there really is nothing I can do except move on and get myself away from it.
One of the key things is that they walk away from there families and friends and isolate themselves within the group. That is pretty much what he has done. How freaking weird. I had joked about it before but after getting the story about the "mole" in the group I realized that these people are WAY out in left field.
Really unhealthy. And it sort of explains why he is withdrawing from my daughter too. Before this happened I never imagined he would do that because they were close.
One of the key things is that they walk away from there families and friends and isolate themselves within the group. That is pretty much what he has done.
Yes, this rings true to me also from what you've said. This is why I am doubtful how much of this is fog. Fog + alcoholism getting worse + possible drug use + a bunch of new weirdo best friends who believe that his wife may be interfering with their contact with the spirit world. I mean, there's hardly any room for affair fog in that pea soup.
Unsure, ask your attorney for a GAL evaluation for visitation/scheduling purposes and site your uneasiness with his change in behavior. Most judges really try to do whats best for the children, but they have to actually know what's going on.
I completely agree with you on the fog and re-writing history. My STBXH is smack dab in the middle of that. Total change of behavior and thinking. I'd like to think that one day he will snap out of it and realize what a terrific family he gave up, but I just don't think that will happen.