Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...
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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 05-08-2012, 10:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

As my title states, I am not sure how I should feel. I have been lurking for a few days, just to get a "feel" for the board. I am sure I will get some responses telling me how horrible I am, and some that will encourage me. Believe me, I deserve it.

Six years ago, my husband started playing World of Warcraft. It bothered me a little bit that it consumed a lot of his time after work, but I sat beside him, watching him play, with our baby girl on my lap. He, as well as some of his new friends, encouraged me to start playing...so I made my own character, and started to love the game as well. There was one friend of his who I was uncomfortable with at first. She was flirty, and it bothered me. There was nothing in any of the messages that would have raised a flag, it was just so new to me, and I had just had a baby a few months before, so was very insecure. She understood, and they stopped speaking until I got to know her and realized that THIS friendship was just as they said... friendship only. And we still talk to her from time to time.

Unfortunately, the more I played WoW, the more male friends I made... and they were very flirty. I admit, I loved the attention. DH and I still were very close, and I saw no harm in the "harmless flirtation". I talked to him about all my new friends, and even put him in contact with each of them, as he did with his friends. Everything was fine on that line...until he started showing signs of depression.

In 2008, he was diagnosed with severe depression. He had been commuting to work, an hour away (one way) everyday. I believe that extra two hours from the family, as well as the financial stress we were still under, added to the depression. Yes, I know, we could have quit WoW. we didn't because 1. it was only $15/month each, 2. it was an outlet for his aggression, which was pretty high because he had to suppress those feelings at work all the time, and 3. it was something we could do together. But, in 2008, he took a paid medical leave because his concentration at work was suffering... he really was a mess. Add to that, our youngest was born in June of that year, around the time he was diagnosed with the severe depression.

I tried to be the supportive wife in the beginning. But the longer it progressed, the more I started to resent him. I couldn't understand what he was going through. Looking back, I would have to say, I don't think I really WANTED to understand. And, I started talking badly about him with my new friends. Not all of them, but most were, of course, men. Without getting into details, I wasn't getting my emotional needs met, and I turned to my "friends" in WoW. We started texting, IMing, and emailing. Yes, I admit, it escalated to and EA with one. And yes, I admit that I was not meeting DH's needs either. One day, the youngest was playing with my cell phone and opened emails... then handed the phone to DH. You guessed it, he saw the usual... my racy talks with this man, pics, everything. Even conversations with my siblings and cousin about plans to leave him and move back up near my parents (my OM did not live anywhere near my parents). He was devastated. He made me delete all correspondence with this man, delete from WoW contacts, everything. I was reluctant, but I DID tell this man I could no longer talk to him, DH and I agreed to work things out, and there has been no contact with that OM since. I thought things with DH would get better, but they didn't. I know, trust takes time to rebuild. I was open with him. He knew where I was at all times, and with whom. And then we BOTH agreed to move near my parents. He was no longer working, but had the disability income. I am receiving disability as well. So, we had no reason to stay where we were, when it was so expensive living there, and we moved to a cheaper area. We were on the mend, or so I thought.

We stayed with my parents for a few months while we were looking for a place of our own. During this time, he stayed holed up in our bedroom, while I was out in the rest of the house, with my parents and the kids all day. He was sinking deeper into depression, and I couldn't do anything about it. I had to deal with the kids. I had to try to reassure him. I had to help out around the house. I was drained. But I stood by him.

Finally, we got into our own place. Things were great at first. He finally got a psychiatrist and a psychologist here. He waited because we had no insurance and no money to pay the psychs. Bad choice, I know. But we started chatting with our old WoW friends, who we hadn't talked to from the time we moved out of the old place into the new..so about six months. We were finally back to playing WoW together. You see where this is? WoW was becoming the center of our lives. From the time we got up until the time we went to bed, we were on that game, or it was up and running, anyway.

One of his friends, who I rarely talked to before, started talking with me more. My account was deactivated because we were a bit short on money one month, so I was doing things for DH on his account. And I chatted with his friend K1 (You will see the reason for the 1 soon). K1 was a sweet talker. I didn't realize it at first. He knew about DH's depression, and the fact that the psych changed the dx to bipolar with agoraphobia and anxiety. We started talking about our concern for DH... but it didn't take long to become a deeper "friendship". DH picked up on it, but there was never anything for him to see. And, like any cheater, I denied, denied, denied. This went on for about 9 months. When DH started asking questions, I was quick to reassure him things were fine, when, in fact, they were not. K1 finally chose to end our "friendship", not because of DH, but for his own reasons. I was hurt, of course, but I know that was the right thing to do.

After my EA (because I know that's what it was, if for no other reason than the fact that I took my problems in my marriage to HIM instead of trying to discuss with DH) ended, I still felt disconnected from DH. With K1 out of the picture, I still felt there was nothing worth salvaging. DH didn't seem to care, nor want to do things with me. I truly felt the marriage was done. About a month after my EA with K1 was done, I was talking to a female friend, K2 about it. She was another WoW friend. She was privy to so much. She said it's best that I let DH know how I am feeling... which was true. And I told her I already planned to tell him after the holidays. I didn't want to ruin Christmas for the kids.

Well, Christmas came and went. DH got a letter about his disability, regarding a hearing being set. I didn't want to have him stressing about my wanting him to leave (apartment in my name, he is listed as an adult who lives here, only.. no clue why they did it that way instead of co-HoH). So, I said I was gonna wait. In the meantime, I had another friend, D (again, male) advising me on how to approach because he said he has BTDT... As months went on (January to March), I kept getting bombarded with emails and messages.sayings/pics on Facebook, and even song posts, all reminding me that there was a reason I was hanging on. K2 did not know this.She had been texting DH all this time. I thought nothing of it. Then, before his hearing, I realized that I DON'T want my marriage to end. I love this man more than anything. All these things that bombarded me were a wake up call.... and I deleted so many friends. If anyone I ever flirted with, I told them "sorry, but I can't talk to you. I want my marriage to work and if I talk to you, it will only divide my attention"....and I removed them all. Everything... phone numbers, email addresses, friend names on WoW, IM names, ALL pics, even the ones that were normal. I did that because I didn't want even the slightest temptation to talk to them. And I haven't talked to any since.

Now, about K2... I had written out a letter to DH, telling him I am sorry for everything. I told him I want to work things out with him. Also that i know there are friends I have who he wouldn't like (his first thought went to the 1st OM, but I have had no contact with him). But I said I have been acting loving because it is how I feel (he had asked hwy I was so loving all of a sudden, and I had no response that satisfied him at the time). He typed that entire one page letter up, and showed it to K2 for her opinion. She said she didn't know, and why did I type it up instead of just saying it to him? I told him it was because I can never get the words out right when it comes to things like this.

The next few days, I noticed he had been texting quite frequently... and, for the first time, I noticed his phone went with him EVERYWHERE. A few days later, youngest son wanted to play on WoW, so he brought me his daddy's phone, so I could use the authenticator to log him on. I did it, and was curious about texts. I knew he had been texting for quite awhile, but saw there were only SEVEN texts on there. He called her beautiful. Said her SO was an idiot if he couldn't see that. That wouldn't have bothered me so much, but the texts at the beginning of what I saw said
K2: Wow, where did that come from?
DH: I'd say from my lips, but I was texting, so from my hands.
Then he said something about how she wouldn't be bored if he was there, followed by 2 pics. 1 with makeup, and he said she was beautiful, and the 2nd was fresh from the shower, in only her bra, and he again said beautiful, and stated his preference for no makeup, which I know already myself. I felt sick. I mean, I know, I had 2 EAs... but he had always maintained "flirting = cheating", no exceptions. I told him it bothered me, I love him, and I don't want to lose him. He said "you won't lose me"... but then told K2 that I saw those texts and freaked and that I don't want to lose him. She asked what he was gonna do, and he told her he didn't know. Understandable, because it was a complete contrast from what I had been doing before.

So, a couple days later, I felt uneasy and looked at his phone again. I should mention that he did that to me many times... understandably so. Anyway, his phone, there was a long thread. Now, I was only able to see after I had asked before if he'd have a problem reading his texts. He said nope, no problem. I said ok, I want to read now. He tried to stop me. I said, ok, then you have something to hide, that's what I thought. And he said fine, whatever, and handed me the phone. I nearly threw up when I read stuff about favorite drinks (we don't drink)... she said her fave is buttery nipple, he mentioned sex on the beach. And at one point, he called her sexy. I mean he actually said "what's wrong, you don't like when I call you sexy?" and she said "no, I do "... I gave him his phone and he asked "happy now?".. I said yes and no. We had a talk and, because of my OWN indiscretions, I said you can talk, but please nothing sexual. He told her that. She said "not to be mean, but maybe now she understands how you felt"

So, a couple days go by, I am still uneasy, but he doesn't guard his phone like before. He's not erasing texts, but also not texting as much. But it still bugs me. I told him I believe SHE has strong feelings for him. So, he asks her. She said "just good friends" C'mon now, who would send a pic of himself/herself in just underclothes to someone who is "just a friend"? I'm not stupid. But she asked him the same question, which I saw the next day... he replied "it was more, but then I started getting what I need from [Maricha75]"... That did it. I told her, and him as well that I don't want them talking. That it was inappropriate, etc. She went off on me. She said "did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason he's acting as good as he is with you now is because of ME?" Seriously? Does she think I'm stupid enough to think she ISN'T the reason for his good moods? But he said no problem right away, because he wants to work on our marriage. She sent me a text, telling me she wanted to hear it from HIM, and not from me texting from his phone. Frankly, that thought never occurred to me. But he did it. And she flipped out because he (not we, but he) is ending a four year friendship because of this, etc. Well, hell yes we are! We want to fix our marriage and keeping her in that circle won't do it! Nor would keeping MY friends. And yes, one of mine gave me the same reaction she gave him.

Now, the problem... You got the story LOL. So, he doesn't see that his was an EA, even with the things I have pointed out to him. He hasn't talked to her since. I check the cell bill. No texts, no emails. I have access to those as well. And he has access to all of mine. He tried, at first, to say "I guess I'm not allowed to have any friends"... I said "of course you are! You can even have female friends... just not THAT one". But he thinks I should just get over it already. It's been over a month and I still get triggers and I still feel uneasy. I think, in part, because he refuses to acknowledge that it was an EA. I looked closely at past bills and there are discrepancies with pic messages. For instance, there are only two pics of himself that are his face, which I am certain he sent and that's fine. But there is one pic he sent to me, which I am glad for but that same day there were two pics sent to her. He maintains innocence as far as sending pics below the belt. I really want to believe him. But there were only two pics saved on his cell from her... the bra pic, and one pic of her kid(s). The record shows 10+ pics FROM her, and about 8 or so TO her...so, what were these other pics? Granted, some could be "resends" because AT&T "hiccuped", but that doesn't explain them all. Especially the two sent on the same day he sent ME a pic of his erection.

My theory is that he doesn't want to hurt me any more than I already have been. Or, he doesn't want to cop to the EA because that shows he truly IS vulnerable to such things, when he always maintained that flirting = cheating stance. But he wants to just sweep it under the rug and wants me to get over it already. He has forgiven me, but it's hard to forgive myself. And I HAVE forgiven him, even though he hasn't acknowledged it, really. I just can't get past what I read, what I saw.

So... ready for the comments!
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Also, I sent him a few pics a couple of days ago. They were similar to what K2 sent him. And he was, at first, unresponsive to them. So I asked him "ok, so I can send them to one of my guy friends?"... and no, I didn't mean any I had deleted. Wouldn't you know, he said "hell no!"... I told him that's what I thought.

Oh, and K2 has been removed from BOTH of our contacts on cell, email, Facebook, and WoW. AND, she has been BLOCKED by us on Facebook as well.

I have come to the conclusion that WoW is just a $15/month dating site/program. =/
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Hmmm..guess my initial post was rather wordy. LOL
Bottom line, I think I get that I have the right to feel the way I do about the whole ordeal, that it can't just be swept under the rug. And, I need to remain transparent, as does he. The only problem is that he seems to want to sweep it. I am allowed to go to his psych appointments. I have thought of asking her for advice on marriage counseling. She knows of our issues from his perspective, and I do not want to jeopardize that, so I think we should see a MC, and get her recommendation. She mentioned once before that it might be a good idea. That was back before things got so bad.

But I cringe at the mention of K2's name, and that's tough since our daughter has a girl in her class with the same name. That feeling WILL go away in time, right? And am I correct in wanting to have him admit to the EA? I have told him everything he has wanted to know, and even things he hasn't. And anything he still wants to know, I am open to.... But he hasn't indicated that he wants to know anything more.

Also, there was a medication the doctor had put him on that caused him to lose interest in sex. Well, he believes it was the medication. Honestly, IDK what to think. It seems to have coincided with the NC request, which he is following. We have more sex, but he says he really hasn't been into it since that medication was started and subsequently stopped. Unfortunately, this was around the exact same time they stopped talking. So, I am insecure about that as well.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Cliff's Notes, please
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

WoW was a breeding ground for EAs when I played.

It is so easy to get caught up in the fantasy. It is a simple slide over to IRL.

Is WoW or any other MMO still being played?
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Short version:
I had EA 2 yrs ago. I was caught because of youngest handing my cell to DH after he opened my emails. He requested NC, I stopped talking to OM.

We moved, things got bad again, and I started chatting with a friend of DH, and another EA started. I know, my choice, my fault, I take blame. Lots involved with it, all mentioned in long version. But I hid it better/longer. EA ended, but afterward I still intended to leave DH. Had made that decision already.

I talked to a girl friend about it, and she, essentially made a play for him. Started EA with him when I told her my intentions. Got to the point he was calling her sexy and beautiful. I asked him to stop talking to her, he said no problem but didn't "get" it. She flipped out. They both maintained "just friends" but you don't call someone sexy if they are "just friends"... nor do you send pics of yourself in your bra/underclothes.... And he still doesn't understand that it WAS and EA he had with her. He confided things he should have been talking with me about.

We are working things out, but different things trigger my mind, and he thinks i need to just move past it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TorontoBoyWest View Post
WoW was a breeding ground for EAs when I played.

It is so easy to get caught up in the fantasy. It is a simple slide over to IRL.

Is WoW or any other MMO still being played?
Nope. We stopped. Both of us. He doesn't even go online anymore. Not since I asked him to stop talking to her.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Both of you got addicted to WOW and looks like your kids are about to follow the same path
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

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Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
Nope. We stopped. Both of us. He doesn't even go online anymore. Not since I asked him to stop talking to her.
If I recall correctly (it was a bit wall of text) your H is or was going to IC?

What about you?
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

warlock: I agree, we did. But that isn't going to happen with the kids now. No longer playing, so not gonna have that option anymore.

TBW: He is, I am not. I know I need to. Honestly, there is something wrong with ME if I feel the need to seek attention from these other men. It never occurred to me until DH said something about it a few days ago.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

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Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
warlock: I agree, we did. But that isn't going to happen with the kids now. No longer playing, so not gonna have that option anymore.

TBW: He is, I am not. I know I need to. Honestly, there is something wrong with ME if I feel the need to seek attention from these other men. It never occurred to me until DH said something about it a few days ago.
Bingo.

It is good to see the self-awareness in that statement. Now is the time to see if your actions match your words.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

When we were talking about that, I know I brought up not getting the attention I needed from him. I am certain that's not the whole problem, but a part of it. With his depression, and the other diagnoses he has received, he hasn't been able to as well as he used to. And, when that started to diminish, I turned to other men instead of focusing on the kids, myself, and making sure I was there for him. By not being there for him, it drove him further into depression which pushed me further away.

No, I am not saying he is to blame. I am saying *I* should have focused on the family, or turned to a trusted female friend who could have helped me through this. But I didn't. I am sure there is more to it than that, but it's a start.

And I understand WHY he turned to K2 when I was checking out. I just am not sure why he doesn't acknowledge it for what it was. Maybe because he always maintained that stance against flirting and now he knows he went down that same road, just not as far?
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

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When we were talking about that, I know I brought up not getting the attention I needed from him. I am certain that's not the whole problem, but a part of it. With his depression, and the other diagnoses he has received, he hasn't been able to as well as he used to. And, when that started to diminish, I turned to other men instead of focusing on the kids, myself, and making sure I was there for him. By not being there for him, it drove him further into depression which pushed me further away.

No, I am not saying he is to blame. I am saying *I* should have focused on the family, or turned to a trusted female friend who could have helped me through this. But I didn't. I am sure there is more to it than that, but it's a start.

And I understand WHY he turned to K2 when I was checking out. I just am not sure why he doesn't acknowledge it for what it was. Maybe because he always maintained that stance against flirting and now he knows he went down that same road, just not as far?
That would be my guess but I think until he admits it for what it is you will not be able to fully heal from this. You have admitted to yours he needs to do the same.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Bingo.

It is good to see the self-awareness in that statement. Now is the time to see if your actions match your words.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Don't think I have the "right" to be upset, yet at the same time, I do...

Living with someone who is mentally ill is a hell of a challenge.
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