Many BS have had psychologists help us through the trauma of betrayal and pass on the advice given in those sessions. Many are compelled to read much on the subject including weighty tombs dredged from the depths of Google which they pass on.
The aim of much of the advice on this forum is not to protect the marriage, since, the act of cheating has destroyed the marriage they were having, but to protect the BS and allow healing to begin as soon as possible.
Denial in the BS is powerful and the trauma of betrayal triggers the flight, flight or freeze response Most people freeze. They are unable to believe that this is happening to them. The advice may look incredibly harsh but from experience you learn that people rarely act on the advice and if they do it is much watered down. This leads to multiple posts with one sentence
"Divorce the skanky rat"
Over the year or more of posting I have noticed a pattern in the posts and learnt many things about myself. not all f them nice
The things said The actions taken and the results are almost identical across all situations and people.
The thing you can not even begin to understand, unless you have been through it, is the ongoing and extreme pain that people are suffering in the first weeks and months of discovery. Yes, sometimes a regular will trigger and will get a little extreme, you know what. That is fine. The OP is triggering and it is reassuring to see another in the same boat. This doesn't mean that there will not be sane, calm and good advice on the same thread.
This is a support group for the BS and the WS if they really do want it. It is not a theoretical case . it is peoples lives destroyed. Peoples hearts broken and families ripped apart. It mostly ends in Divorce.
I saw some argument about exposure. Of course you should expose it. Of course people have a right to know. It brings the affair into the light. If it is "tru love" then it will survive and the BS can move on with their life, quickly and as cleanly as possible. If the WS sees that they were wrong then they can address the problem with the person they married. They will probably divorce but they are at least talking.
While most people on here are pro-marriage, pro-making-it-work. They are also realists, they know the agony of betrayal and they know what a huge cost reconciliation comes at.
I have personal experience of multiple attempted fake R and would not be in the place I am in now if I had accepted R at face value.
I understand what you are saying, however, I truly think most people can tell the difference between advise based on pure emotion, advised based on experience and hardwork, and advise based on pure conjecture. I don't think you are giving the people on here enough credit.
I see a lot of bad advice given, and acted on by posters acting on emotion and the need to "get even" with those bad cheaters. Several times in this past week this has happened, and I just shake my head at how newcomers jump at the advice given without considering the source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Tea
But honestly, and I truly am not trying to be rude here, your marriage had promises of till death due us part and it failed. My marriage had promises of forsaking all others and it stumbled but has not failed. How is your marriage, which has ended in divorce, for whatever reason, better than mine which has not.
My marriage was no better than yours. Again I said "all other things being equal, a marriage with no infidelity..."
My marriage had a boatload of problems but reading the stories here I'd rather have gone through what I did rather than bear the pain of a cheating spouse.
Question: If you haven't been cheated on or don't suspect your spouse of infidelity, why are you here in this sub-forum?
Are you here to learn ideas on how to protect your marriage? Are you someone who enjoys reading about other people's misery?
Or are you here to prove how superior you are because your spouse has never cheated on you?
This is a good question, and I get how those who have suffered betrayal in their marriage are sensitive to those of us who have not being here for our "entertainment". Luckily, my wife and I have a very good marriage and I can't imagine her every having an affair. I've said this throughout the time we've been married, but it is only after coming here that I can realize how ironic that sentence must be for most of you.
And that really is the point. Yes, I'll confess to some level of entertainment in reading these stories; we're literally witnessing the emotional trauma of real life and there is interest in it. We develop thoughts about people here, who they are, why they ended up in this situation, and how they will recover....or not. The bottom line is we care about the outcome, even if we don't have the requisite experience to provide advice.
Yet, the tales here are so horrific that it is not something I could come back to if it were just a vouyeristic experience. I've learned a lot here. First and foremost is that no matter how good one might believe their marriage is, no couple is immune to the risk of infidelity.
So yes, I have done some snooping as a result of what I've learned here, and happily it seems all is ok. Interestingly, I have become aware of a guy sniffing around Mrs. Seawolf and to be honest, I don't think she is even aware of his intentions. I may be wrong, and perhaps he's just wanting to be a friend - he used to work for her before a company change - but I know from my reading here to be vigilant. So far, she is all business with his, too casual emails, and I've been proud of what I've seen from her.
But I"m watching.
So thanks guys, perhaps those of us who are observers here - and sometimes commenters - are taking advantage of your painful experiences, but it is not without reason and benefit. This forum does not just save marriages that are already on the skids, but it helps keep good marriages on track and for that I am grateful.
Denial in the BS is powerful and the trauma of betrayal triggers the flight, flight or freeze response Most people freeze. They are unable to believe that this is happening to them. The advice may look incredibly harsh but from experience you learn that people rarely act on the advice and if they do it is much watered down. This leads to multiple posts with one sentence
"Divorce the skanky rat"
I agree completely with everything above including the advice to divorce them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ing
I saw some argument about exposure. Of course you should expose it. Of course people have a right to know. It brings the affair into the light. If it is "tru love" then it will survive and the BS can move on with their life, quickly and as cleanly as possible. If the WS sees that they were wrong then they can address the problem with the person they married. They will probably divorce but they are at least talking.
This is exactly the sort of bad advice I see dispensed here on a regular basis. I've been through an expensive high conflict divorce and I can tell you from personal experience, having learned by having been through it that if divorce is likely, to do things that will escalate the conflict will only make things much worse than they already are.
Nothing to be gained from exposure especially if it's a workplace affair that may result in job loss of the cheating spouse and higher support obligations for the betrayed spouse.
When I first discovered my WWs secret facebook account, I was devastated. But that's all I had at the time. I talked to a friend who had NOT been through infidelity, and I got bad advice: to go ahead and confront her about it. So I did. All I got was "He's just a friend". I got the denials and I was gaslighted.
I WISH I had gone online and found a support forum like this one, so I could listen to others who have been through this. I learned that I confronted too early. It would have saved me the agony of being continually lied to. I didn't know about the slippery slope, or even about EAs and PAs. I didn't know about the difference between remorse and regret. I didn't know about rug sweeping. I didn't know about VARs or keyloggers. I didn't know about the red flags of affairs. If I had just gone on the internet and gotten the advice of those who had been through this before me, I could have taken the appropriate measures and possibly have nipped this in the bud.
Before this happened, I too thought our marriage was rock solid, having survived 23 years of military life, all the deployments, the unaccompanied tours, the odd hours, the shift work, etc, etc, etc. I thought my wife was one of the most honest people in the world. We did everything together, we talk all the time. I was proud of her. Yet all it took for her to fall was something that she had never experiened: reconnecting with an old HS BF via facebook.
So having been burned by listening to the advice of someone who didn't know jack sh!t about infidelity, I would rather listen to the voices of experience - those who have been through it and know what to do. I would hope to pass my hard won knowledge off to others in the hope that they can avoid the same mistakes I've made.
Because that's how we make progress: We learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others.
Those who haven't been through it and say the advice is crazy from those who have, have their head in the sand. Don't be too sure it won't happen to you. It doesn't matter how long you've been married or how solid you THINK your marriage is. It can happen.
My first marriage ended because of my first wife's affair with a college classmate. But I was scarred for a very long time. I should have recognized the red flags from the first time, but it happened a long time ago, and I was feeling secure.
This is exactly the sort of bad advice I see dispensed here on a regular basis. I've been through an expensive high conflict divorce and I can tell you from personal experience, having learned by having been through it that if divorce is likely, to do things that will escalate the conflict will only make things much worse than they already are.
Nothing to be gained from exposure especially if it's a workplace affair that may result in job loss of the cheating spouse and higher support obligations for the betrayed spouse.
Then you're doing the exact same thing as others have here: advising people based on your experience going thru a divorce. The difference here is that your exwife wasn't having a workplace affair, which is the most common affair there is.
Exposure was extensively talked about in this thread:
Donders, so you're not a fan of exposure. I get that.
What other bad advice do you see getting dispensed around here?
There are some extreme cases where it's obvious that the cheating spouse is gone for good, has no interest in returning, is possibly even flaunting their affair, doesn't give a crap about the betrayed spouse, shows no remorse, and yet the advice given is to try to save the marriage by employing various strategies, rather than pointing the betrayed spouse in the direction of mounting an aggressive divorce and protecting their ASSets.
It seems that this forum has lately attracted a bigger than usual number of what I call "spectators": people who haven't been exposed to infidelity, yet hang out and offer (in their opinion good) advice on the subject.
I'm not so sure that the only opinions of value are those who have either cheated or have been betrayed by a cheater.
Sometimes an outside opinion can be useful.
I've seen both good and bad advice given.
The type of participation someone has while fully trumatized is different than at a later state of mind--same person.
The type of commentary given by someone fully involved in cheating is different than at a later stage.
I also think that here are folks that do not reveal their true state and comment anyway.
There was a guy that was making "wise" commentary awhile back that was realy trolling for customers for his unlicensed marriage counseling.
I put him on block.
I guess I'm trying to say that it is possible to separate the wheat from the chaff and react accordingly.
Halien, this thread is not an attempt to start a witch hunt. It's just certain few threads here suddenly attracted a number of very vocal and opinionated posters, seemingly coming out of nowhere and not affected by infidelity in any way.
All people are free to voice their opinions, but those who never suffered from it are best advised to be extra considerate before jumping the gun.
You were exposed to infidelity issues by proxy of your father, so are clearly much less naive about it than I was a year ago (and perhaps now, as my views stem from a one-case study).
There's often plenty of disagreement among posters already, and that's normal. Different folks come from different situations and maybe more helpful in cases they can relate to. For instance, I don't post often to the threads by betrayed women, not from lack of sympathy but because I don't quite clearly understand what options a woman in this situation has. However they do get great advice from other posters whose experiences were close.
Halien, this thread is not an attempt to start a witch hunt. It's just certain few threads here suddenly attracted a number of very vocal and opinionated posters, seemingly coming out of nowhere and not affected by infidelity in any way.
All people are free to voice their opinions, but those who never suffered from it are best advised to be extra considerate before jumping the gun.
You were exposed to infidelity issues by proxy of your father, so are clearly much less naive about it than I was a year ago (and perhaps now, as my views stem from a one-case study).
There's often plenty of disagreement among posters already, and that's normal. Different folks come from different situations and maybe more helpful in cases they can relate to. For instance, I don't post often to the threads by betrayed women, not from lack of sympathy but because I don't quite clearly understand what options a woman in this situation has. However they do get great advice from other posters whose experiences were close.
I deleted my post because I didn't want people to misunderstand, but I wasn't suggesting that this is a witch hunt at all. Just pointing out that that it is easy to make assumptions about why a person comes to a site like this to try to help or offer insight, when they haven't had infidelity in the relationship. Some of the responders have taken a very simplistic and dangerous view of infidelity, on both sides of the argument, in my opinion. I read the responses that seem to be from people who have no idea about infidelity and cringe also. But we forget sometimes, especially on this thread, that infidelity has its origin with a person who becomes vulnerable to outside emotional and physical contact. They are the vulnerable one, and the spouse should bear no shame or blame. Some, but not all, of these people lack the same degree of executive-level thought control than those who resist infidelity. They respond emotionally to life situations, feeling powerless to avoid the affair that might cross their path. Maybe more people actually experience infidelity for reasons that are just mainly an issue of circumstance. Not many threads really touch on the psychological issues that can make a person weak. On the one hand, I was fortunate that my wife had certain beliefs that led her to admit that she could be weak in certain situations, and the self-loathing led her down a very self-destructive path. I lived in fear of this, studied it, and went through therapy. Fortunately, we were lucky that it didn't go further, but I lived with the threats and anger in her because I was a very closed person in the early years, and could fill the emotional need of her bipolar disorder. What I was saying in an earlier reply was that many people in a marriage that lasts a couple of decades or more will find themselves in this place of fear. It doesn't even come close to the pain of betrayal that you felt, I know, but there might be an occasional thread where they can help. Some of the other threads treat it like people never have to learn to adapt to a weaker spouse, when it is incredibly common in long term marriages, even though the insight that they can offer is limited.
The posts that I tend to reply to are ones where the betrayed spouse might be saying things that suggest a lot of self-doubt, or a feeling of powerlessness. Or, when they are falling prey to some common tactics of the OM or OW in trying to further alienate them from their own spouse. I don't have anything unique to offer, but my childhood and early adult years were just surrounded around the belief system that my dad raised us under. I wasn't completely innocent myself, although I was young and owned up to the people I had hurt.
There are some extreme cases where it's obvious that the cheating spouse is gone for good, has no interest in returning, is possibly even flaunting their affair, doesn't give a crap about the betrayed spouse, shows no remorse, and yet the advice given is to try to save the marriage by employing various strategies, rather than pointing the betrayed spouse in the direction of mounting an aggressive divorce and protecting their ASSets.
That's just fundamentally not true. In those threads the consensus of advice is typically to take steps to protect your assets, run the 180 to protect yourself, cut them loose, and move on. Sure there will be the occasional poster who is newly betrayed and thinks the cheater should be burned in effigy consequence be damned, but the consensus in lost causes is usually just to move on as painlessly as possible.
After d-day, the posters who personally experienced infidelity were the only ones from whom I wanted advice on how to cope. Medical, legal, or psychological advice would've also been appreciated from professionals in those fields. But getting advice or talking to people who had not experienced infidelty often made me hurt more. This was true with my friends too. I even preferred talking to a girlfriend who cheated on her H, rather than those friends who had untainted marriages. I couldn't relate to those who had no experience with infidelity and found myself stifling a "shut the f*€k up" on occasion. Now a year later I'm in a better position mentally to possibly see pros & cons from any poster regardless of their previous experience.
So to all posters, keep in mind the BS is grieving a death those first weeks or months after d-day. The death of their marriage. No matter how helpful the advice might be, hearing from people who's marriage is still untouched by infidelity is painful to hear. Another reminder of something we can no longer claim. As a BS, I'm finding many comments on this particular thread hurtful and belittling. Tread with care and respect, those new to infidelity once thought their marriage was untainted by it too. Odds are many untouched by infidelity on this forum right now will be or have been and just don't know it yet. Posted via Mobile Device
There are some extreme cases where it's obvious that the cheating spouse is gone for good, has no interest in returning, is possibly even flaunting their affair, doesn't give a crap about the betrayed spouse, shows no remorse, and yet the advice given is to try to save the marriage by employing various strategies, rather than pointing the betrayed spouse in the direction of mounting an aggressive divorce and protecting their ASSets.
The BS is in a state of shock and simply can not believe that their partner of X years has just vanished in front of them. In the case where the are children . It is no longer just about two people.. it is about the mental and physical long term well being of your shared children. it changes the game totally.
I think you are misunderstanding [deliberately ] the aim of most posters on this board. It is to help the BS either accept that there WS has gone for good or to help get them back if there is any real hope of Reconciliation.
If the BS states in their posts that they "Want to save their marriage!!" then there are strategies to help with that, the thing is though, those strategies are almost the same as if you were aggressively pursuing Divorce and protecting assets.
1. Expose the affair to the other parties spouse. I think this is fair. Would you like to know that your wife was having an affair? I am also not a fan of revenge exposure.
2. Split finances. This is almost always the advice regardless of the desired outcome. This is to protect the assets.
3. Immediate and hard 180.
That's about healing. Finding your own centre. For many of us who have been in very long marriages [26 years] this is no mean feat . You are so tied together that that every single part of you needs to be re-evaluated and rebuilt from the ground up. This is going to need to happen regardless of Reconciliation or Divorce.
4. No contact
This is important for both R and D. The BS needs time to regroup and the WS needs time to think about their decision and the real impact it is having on the family. Again .Children in the marriage have a huge impact.
5. Letting Go
This is again about helping the BS to move on. This is required for R and D.
6. Abuse
If their is abuse the advice is always to get out. I have not seen a case where a BS has been advised to stay in the case of abuse.
A male WS on the other hand normally starts with "omg she is so abusive. She didn't ball my socks. I am leaving her"
It is normally a woman WS who has reached the end that has had an affair. the tone of the posts is totally different.
Reconciliation.
This is part f the script the WS often comes back wanting to R on their terms. Wants to sweep the A under the rug. I have been here long enough to know what fake R looks like. I have been saved from it by the relentless reality checks by the vets and new people alike.
The route waked here is to give both the WS and the BS the best possible change of R if that is what they want. Some people see infidelity as a deal breaker. Some don't.
It is a no win game.
Yet, the tales here are so horrific that it is not something I could come back to if it were just a vouyeristic experience. I've learned a lot here. First and foremost is that no matter how good one might believe their marriage is, no couple is immune to the risk of infidelity.
So yes, I have done some snooping as a result of what I've learned here, and happily it seems all is ok. Interestingly, I have become aware of a guy sniffing around Mrs. Seawolf and to be honest, I don't think she is even aware of his intentions. I may be wrong, and perhaps he's just wanting to be a friend - he used to work for her before a company change - but I know from my reading here to be vigilant. So far, she is all business with his, too casual emails, and I've been proud of what I've seen from her.
But I"m watching.
So thanks guys, perhaps those of us who are observers here - and sometimes commenters - are taking advantage of your painful experiences, but it is not without reason and benefit. This forum does not just save marriages that are already on the skids, but it helps keep good marriages on track and for that I am grateful.
It's gratifying to know that some people are learning from the experiences of those who have been betrayed. Before all this happened, I also might have subscribed to society's current general belief that you must somehow be jealous and/or insecure if you start investigating to see what's going on.
Now I've learned that you have a right and obligation to protect your marriage. It's NOT being jealous or controlling.
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Re: Spectators in CWI 
] the aim of most posters on this board. It is to help the BS either accept that there WS has gone for good or to help get them back if there is any real hope of Reconciliation.
