I've been impressed by the overall level of respect and civility in this debate. I find, generally, when somone resorts to put downs like this, they are out of intellectual ammo. Condescencion, sarcasm, etc, are , generally, the voice of the weak, an my mom would say(and I doubt she is the author).
Saw it with the remark from Almost Recovered re hand severing, too.
But, in general, this has been a good debate.
Neither side is going to convince the other, IMO. Both sides make good points.
Interesting, because I did not intend it as a put down, but rather to demonstrate as flawed logical reasoning - reasoning we quickly correct when it comes out of the mouth of a four year old.
I do agree that we will not convert each other, but do appreciate the differing point of view.
Fortunately, neither. However, I continue to help a very close friend deal in the aftermath of this, so read these boards to gain insight (I have recommended he come here, but I don't know if he has).
Interesting, because I did not intend it as a put down, but rather to demonstrate as flawed logical reasoning - reasoning we quickly correct when it comes out of the mouth of a four year old.
I do agree that we will not convert each other, but do appreciate the differing point of view.
Then why not explain how you think it is flawed vs pointing out it is similar to a child's reasoning? in reality, i doubt a child would consider competency to contract or whether a valid contract still exists.
Her argument is way more sophisticated than that of a child, even if you beleive it is wrong.
My Grandfather used to tell me that our Integrity is similar to a solid wall of granite. Hard to cut in and hard to break a piece off.
Once you take a piece away, it is a lot easier to chip away at the rest of the rock and it begins to crumble.
Once you take that step down that road to cheat on your spouse you have weakened your integrity.
RA destroys what you are and also the other person.
A person shows real integrity if they decide that they cannot Reconcile but will not take the action of Revenge and decides to end the marriage. It is painful buy you maintain your integrity.
in reality, i doubt a child would consider competency to contract or whether a valid contract still exists.
dont think i could call a marriage a contract. an agreement, or arrangement seems more accurate. legally, none of the things you promise/vow in your arrangement ceremony mean squat.
But, Church and state are seperate so there is one binding 'contract' you do make. With the state, your arrangemnt entitles you to certain benefits (taxes, etc). In exchange, if you decide to discontinue your arrangement (at no one's fault, for virtually any reason) you agree to pay the lesser 'earner' so he/she and the dependants aren't a burden on the tax payers.
Don't pay my babble too much mind though, im a bit cynical and im just talking because... Well, I dont know why I'm talking/typing.
Many BS's have describe their WS as abusive based on having an affair. So why does one form of abuse cause people to excuse or even encourage an affair while other forms of abuse do not?
There are many resons, such as financial, children, and fear. They may not be good reasons, but if these boards are any indication, it is not as uncommon as I would like.
Even in a court of law self defense is enough to exonerate someone of a serious crime.
Many WS refuse to understand why the spouse is still suspicious and paranoid.
Six months post Dday my own spouse went to a bar to get a lap dance, lied when outed and when asked why said he was acting out because he was annoyed that I was still paranoid and suspicious.
I filed for divorce.
Still, I can understand someone having a revenge affair as a from of self defense to the abuse front the abusive cheating spouse who is still mind****ing the spouse they Betrayed
Even in a court of law self defense is enough to exonerate someone of a serious crime.
Many WS refuse to understand why the spouse is still suspicious and paranoid.
Six months post Dday my own spouse went to a bar to get a lap dance, lied when outed and when asked why said he was acting out because he was annoyed that I was still paranoid and suspicious.
I filed for divorce.
Still, I can understand someone having a revenge affair as a from of self defense to the abuse front the abusive cheating spouse who is still mind****ing the spouse they Betrayed
At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.
At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.
I can live with that. Nothing prevents future harm from the original WS - they have demonstrated ability as well as intention and disrespect, so I don't see how NOT having extramarital sex would make a difference with regards to preventing harm!?
I would strongly suggest though, that if the LS consider having a RA - think again and ask your WS to accept a "counter affair" as learning experience to both of you. You need to agree on the extend. It will create some dynamics but not necessarily save the marriage. But who's to say what will?
At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.
Hi Tall:
Moot point. All self defense is a form of revenge.
I think any BS who does not feel resentment and think of revenge, likely has very deep self esteem issues and a low opinion of themselves.
IMO, resentment is a healthy defense mechanism.
Revenge is not healthy for the BS but it is a natural reactive reaction, and i agree just move on rather than have an RA.
That is why I filed for D.
Still, I it's darn hypocritical for a cheater spouse to refuse to forgive a revenge affair and move forward from there.
BTW: Likely why I am so triggered is my cheater spouse told the MC, when asked what he would do if I had an affair and cheater spouse said he would divorce me immediately. Yet, he expects me to me past his cheating in six months. WTF
I think any BS who does not feel resentment and think of revenge, likely has very deep self esteem issues and a low opinion of themselves.
I disagree. It may be the case where the WS has been a lousy spouse and discovery of his/her affair was just the "cherry on top" but for those of us that had a happy and loving marriage, the affair came out left field. I wish that my ex-wife had been an a**hole like your STBXH because then the decision to divorce her would have been far far much easier.
Lastly, I hated all women after my wife's betrayal. How would that have played out in a RA?
I disagree. It may be the case where the WS has been a lousy spouse and discovery of his/her affair was just the "cherry on top" but for those of us that had a happy and loving marriage, the affair came out left field. I wish that my ex-wife had been an a**hole like your STBXH because then the decision to divorce her would have been far far much easier.
Lastly, I hated all women after my wife's betrayal. How would that have played out in a RA?
Hi Mori:
We did have what I thought was a happy and loving marriage. The cheating did come out of left field. I had no clue.
That is why I gave him so much freedom for men's camping trips and boy's night's out. I trusted him totally. Naive I now know. But I did.
That is why i even attempted R. He turned into an Ass during R.
As for hating all men. I don't. Is that weird? I don't hate dumb blondes, either. Even though the OW is a quintessential Dumb blonde. I am initially triggered by one that looks similar to the OW, but I can also get past that, if the woman is a nice person, IMO.
I treat people the way they treat me.
Also, I have been meeting plenty of men who were cheated on by their wives so, cheating is not just a man thing.
As for hating all men. I don't. Is that weird? I don't hate dumb blondes, either. Even though the OW is a quintessential Dumb blonde. I am initially triggered by one that looks similar to the OW, but I can also get past that, if the woman is a nice person, IMO.
I treat people the way they treat me.
Also, I have been meeting plenty of men who were cheated on by their wives so, cheating is not just a man thing.
I agree that cheating is not a man thing but still my hating all women at the time of my wife's betrayal was, for lack of better word, simply monstrous and for which I feel deeply shameful for but please explain to me how would hurting an innocent woman via an RA in my state of mind be beneficial to me and her? Sex, for me anyway, is not just simply the sharing of glands but a sign of deep love and a sharing of my soul for the woman I care deeply for. Call me an old fashion turd but it is who I am.
How is using another human being, who may want more than a physical connection, honorable?
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Re: Coping with wife's affair... 
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