cdm9999

I have been married for 20+ years, 4 children (6,12,17,18) and have a good life other than my not so great marraige.

Short background: H and I never got along great..I know he hasnt always felt totally connected to me in a soul mate kind of way (which is what he wants)...he is somewhat verbally abusive and doesnt treat me the way i want to be treated....although he is a good provider, good father, we have no financial trouble, we have no in-law trouble, no addictions, no sexual trouble, we are attracted physically to each other. and I do love him ....He loves me but not "in love"... for whatever reason, he is not happy with me.

Anyway, I found out about 2 years ago that he was in contact with his first long-term girlfriend that he dated when he was 18-20 (he is 48 now)... I met him when I was 18 and he was 20... he was still pining over her way back then, but it was over between them....(they had a bad break up...he wanted her back...she didnt) ....she met someone and married him.....At the time i found out about the facebook contact(2 years ago) I told him I didnt like it and I would like him to stop. He said he had wanted some closure, he didnt want her, he wanted me and realizes that now and just wanted to discuss a few things with her and let her know he wasnt a jerk.

I said, finish your closure and then stop. I didnt say a word for 6 months. Our relationship actually was very good during this time and he told me that now he knows I was the right choice.
BTW, supposedly she was a happily married woman. After 6 months, I brought it up to my H again and asked him if he still talked to her on facebook and he said yes...I had found out (unbenounced to him) that they were going to meet for lunch .

I forced him to stop contact and I wrote her, very nicely, and asked her to stop contacting my H. She agreed and said she was very much in love with her H and that my husband said he loved me very much...she said she would respect my decision. This all happened last summer. I dropped the whole issue and never mentioned it again.

Although, I should mention that my H was devestated by my writing her the letter and that he would never forgive me... he sulked in bed for 2 days. I couldnt believe that he would act this way, but anyway...it was done.

I did notice that our relationship was worse after this.

We really had a tough year, went to MC for a year, and he is still unhappy and wants to trial separate to see what it would be like without me.

OK so here goes....I finally got him to admit that he has again been in contact with her, she had separated from her husband last year, and they met for lunch in December and have been in contact via email. I cant believe that they havent seen each other otherwise, but who knows. He claims that she wont get into a relationship with him until we split up. But they both want to see if it would work out.

My H is so torn about this and is afraid he would make a mistake and lose me forever in case the OW doesnt work out. At this point, how could I deal with this....I think I have to get a separation (legal) because I think I'd be a fool to "let" him try out an affair and then let him make a choice. I thought all along, we would trial separate and we would both be alone to think about things to make a decision. Now I know someone is in the wings and how could i compete with his first-time love that he never got over.

I could say stop all contact with her or i will file... not sure what he would choose....but even if he chose to stay in the marraige, I would think he would resent me and always think about her and what could have been. He kind of wants to try it out to see if they belong together, but I told him even if i agreed to that, it wouldnt be a real test because it would probably be so exciting at first and not really get a good idea of what it would be long term with them.

I know this is an unknown, but it makes me sick to think it could work out with her and I feel i am at such a disadvantage because he has someone waiting for him (I would have to go out searching for new R) and he had such strong feelings for her thru the years.... i dont know if ultimately it would work out for them but it kills me

I have been a good wife, mother, lover, and he says I am the sweetest, nicest person he has ever met and that is why he decided to be with me , ignoring the part that we just aren't that compatible. We are very involved with our neighbors/friends...nobody knows about this, even my family. So hard to deal with on my own.

What does this look like to you? Should I give him an ultimatum, me or her? Or is that just setting me up for more grief? Go straight for divorce? Do legal separation (I only would concider this rather than divorce because I need healthcare insurance--I havent had a job since my first son (18) was born and I have some health issues)? Breaking up a marraige/family is horrible.

I'm so angry and hurt. Just isn't fair. Thanks for advice.

Almostrecovered

for starters you need to realize that he has rewritten the marital history and the way he felt about you in order for him to justify to himself that this affair is righteous

as far as your main questions-


well honestly you can't be in a marriage with 3 people, can you?

so the ultimatum is a must no matter what, now if you are hesitant on even taking him back I can understand that feeling and you shouldn't rush into any decision as it probably depends greatly on his attitude and ability to help you heal and regain trust if you were to take him back

thus I recommend the following:

1) see a lawyer and know your legal rights first and foremost, get the paperwork rolling so you can show him just how serious you are
2) don't assume it hasn't gone physical and schedule a doctor's appointment for STD testing
3) after these two things have been done then go to him and state that you cannot live in a marriage with 3 people. Unless he gives you full disclosure, complete transparency, goes NC with OW, and demonstrates true remorse that he does not have a chance to save this marriage (note you aren't saying you are definitely taking him back)

also please read the newbie link in my signature

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jinba

He's trying to live out a fantasy - but he wants you to wait in the wings while he tests the waters? He's being incredibly selfish and I agree with Almostrecovered - two's company, three's a crowd. He needs to make up his mind and get off the fence.

sigma1299

First call this what it is - an affair - emotional for sure - maybe physical. I had an EA with an old HS GF myself - based on how you describe where he is (wanting to see if it will work out with her) your options are fairly limited. You are right, if you make him stay he will resent you and pine for her endlessly - likely he'll try to carry on the affair under your nose.

IMO all you can really do is tell him you will not be second choice and will not be chosen out of obligation, that based on his actions you are obviously not his first choice. Then tell him that he is free to go try her out and see how it goes, wish him well, and start moving on. Tell him that if he comes to the realization that you are in fact the first and ONLY choice that you'll have to evaluate where you are and how you feel about it then - that you can make no guarantees or promises - if he ever gets there.

He may or may not come back - but what have you got currently?? A man who wants to be with another woman and wants your permission to go take her for a test drive and if he doesn't like it so much come back home like it was all okey dokey?!?! He wants your permission to go out and see if he can better deal you with no consequences if he can't. What malarkey!!

I'm sorry but he thinks he wants out - in actuality he most likely doesn't really know that - but that's what he perceives and perception is reality. If he doesn't really want out the only way you can help that dawn on him is to help him see the reality of that decision.

Additionally I'll second everything AR said in his post.

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iheartlife

You are in a no-win situation if ever there was one. Sigma and AR have been around the block and they have given you some of the finest advice that can be had.

Love yourself, respect yourself. Except for God's love (if you believe in God), this is all any of us has at the end of the day, anyhow.

Remains

I agree with Sigma. You are in a no win situation. You can't make him stay and if he does then she will always be the 'what if' in his mind. Let him go. Wish him well and if he decides he wants you back then he may find after all this that you don't want him back. Or worse, that you ha e found someone else, your soulmate, in the meantime. That will be the risk he has to take.

Jellybeans

What does this look like to you? Should I give him an ultimatum, me or her?

Yes, you should.
Non-negotiable.
You need to tell him calmly but firmly that you will not be his back up plan. That he has choices and free will and that just like he married you of his own volition, if he chooses to leave that's his coice--but that you won't be around if it doesn't work out.

Sorry to hear this has happened to you. It is very evident that they were involved because nobody just randomly meets for lunch one December and then starts telling their spouse "I need to see if this will work out." This chick went from telling she was she was "totally in love" with her husband to now being separated (gee, I wonder why). It's because they had an affair. If her husband doesn't know, I would definitely contact him and tell him so that he is aware of what is going on.

You must be firm.

Get the book Love Must Be Tough. Read it. It's very applicable to your situation. You can get it at your local library for free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bmw...0tough&f=false


Boundaries and consequences, dear. I am so sorry for your pain but do not be a doormat. Let him know he is free to choose but if he leaves, you aren't going to be his Plan B.

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Posse

Yes, it is an affair... ;(
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MOMMY2ONE

Sorry your going thru this horrible ordeal especially alone if i were you i would let his family and friends know what he wants to do so that he can see and feel the lack of disrespect you're living with. Posted via Mobile Device

Anubis

Breaking up a marriage/family IS horrible. However, it is not you who chose to do that. He's already made that choice and is looking to you to protect him from its consequences. This is NOT fair, and you should be angry. Listen to what I am about to say and read it all the way before reacting - because it is your single last best chance to save your marriage. If it doesn't work, NOTHING will / would have anyway. You will know that you gave it your best.

It's line in the sand time. Go to a lawyer ASAP, and drop the bomb of filing for divorce on him. Do this while he is at work, and don't tip him off until you are ready to have him served. Nothing short of this will properly get your husband to appreciate the seriousness of what he has done and what sort of fork in the road in his life he is facing. And who files first CAN be a very big deal as far as having the edge/upper hand in the process. Have your lawyer seek full custody of the kids and the house, and temporary support for you and the kids. If possible, have the reason given for divorce in the filing as marital infidelity, not irreconcilable differences or whatever passes for 'no fault' in your state. You may need to push your lawyer on that point.

As for health insurance, You will stay on his insurance until it's final (make that part of the temporary orders, which will also prevent the kids from being moved away from you), which if it happens, you can then stay on for an additional 3 years post-D via COBRA (see that his paying for it is part of the settlement). Grab all the documentation of his affair before you can *before* he learns of what you are going to do. You will want that in your back pocket even if you have to go with a 'no fault' filing.

Now, with that you have put every ball in his court. Either he makes the decision you over her, and shows and does all the heavy lifting and work needed to repair things, or he choose to pursue the girl he could never get out of his system and he learn what his destiny is or whatever it is in his mind.

I say do this over a simple ultimatum with no serious actions behind it, because he's already clearly checked out of his marriage and would use any leeway or wiggle room to try and keep both options open until he knows for sure if option #1 is going to work out for him or not. After 4 kids and 28 years you do not deserve to be option #2. He has a decision to make, and he can't put it off any longer.

My heart goes out to you.

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Wanting1

Having the confidence to walk away (even though it is very painful), puts you in a very powerful position psychologically. It's completely unfair for you to suffer on the sidelines while he plays with the ex.

EleGirl

In addition to what Anubis said above, he can keep your children on his health insurance until a child is 26. Also make sure that's in the divorce.

Make sure you make copies of all of your financial records before you have him served. Keep the copies in a safe place... like a family member's house. When I did this I rented a small storage space to keep records and my most valiable things in.

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cdm9999

I don't know for sure of course and a lot of people would think I am being blind, but it is very likely that he has NOT had sex with her... I think it is an emotional affair (emails/texts) and has not gotten any further....but he still wants to see if he can find his happiness in her. He said she told him she would not start anything until he and i are separated. He is actually worried she may find someone else while she is waiting for him... aparently she is dating or at least looking around out there. This is what he tells me.

sooooooo, this morning I decided I would give it another shot of saving my marraige because i think this idea of a happy future with her is clouding his judgement and keeping any chance of him and I working it out. So I went up to hug him in bed (yes still sleeping in same bed but havent had sex in over a month, which is longest time ever --like i said before, we had a good sex life and he says this isnt about sex...he is attracted to me and is satisfied with what our sex life was)...anyway, went up to him in bed and said that I dont want him to go, i love him and need him, i wont let him go, lets try, we can make things better, lets simplify our lives and change things, work on it together, etc..... wasn't crying, just letting him know these things and how i feel.......he responded by returning my hug.

I started getting a little sexual with him...not groping him, just letting him know subtly with my body that i wanted him....oh yeah, and i said "i want you so bad"..... he reponded with " sex was never the problem with us" ..i could feel he was getting turned on physically, but he didnt make a move.

After a while, as we are embracing ,i kept talking and he said he feels trapped and feels he has this opportunity to be happy with her....that he was never completely happy with me....i then was telling him to get her out of his mind...it is not real...it is just bringing him back to a feeling he had when he was 18 and it is a typical phenomenon that people are so attracted to first loves because it makes them feel young again....I told him that with her in his thoughts, it would just cloud the issues and he would make a mistake.... he said he never got over her...i said that was immature way of thinking and to think about what is important and what he will lose.

So he ends up getting up and putting on his pants and laying back down and putting his favorite pillow between us. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was going to get dressed to leave the room but decided to lay back down and the pillow helps him breathe better. and he said "you dont want to have sex if i am not committed to trying" I said no. That was it and we left the room.

I understand that he doesn't want to use me and i appreciate that, but i still feel hurt and sad.

Now, about D:
I will give him a little time (not much) to think this over and if he wont choose the marraige, I will have to file or at least start with a separation.
I understand about claiming infidelity, but i really dont think he slept with her..... is emotional affair considered infidelity?....how can i claim this it it may not be true....i know i can try to get proof but he is very technical savvy and i am not so couldnt break into his phone. I do have the admission on tape of the fact he wants to be with her and maybe of him meeting her for lunch once, but that is it. I do think they are communicating by email, not sure about phonecalls.... dont know about anything else.... dont think i can prove anything else. should i still claim infidelity?

If we do D, I want to get all that i am entitled to financially because he makes good money, she (OW) has her own business although i dont know how much $ it gets her.... I have not worked outside home in 18 years and feel i dont have much earning power at this point, I have some health issues that may make it hard for me to get insurance (slight high blood pressure, plus i had thyroid cancer which i need to take meds everyday now that i dont have a thyroid--not sure if this is a detrement to getting insurance in the future) plus I think i deserve all that i am entitled to...

I am not looking to screw him over, just want my share for me and my children and beyond the time my children are grown... he will still be making good money and what will i have...I know i will have to go back to work, but would never make nearly that much. Dont get me wrong, he's not making mega bucks but does very well. We dont have tons of extras but we cover our very high bills.........

I'd hate for her to benefit from that and me lowering my standard of living so much. While kids are young, his child support will be so high, he wont have much financially, but my oldest is 18 and one following right after...and I have a long life to live i hope.

Anyone familiar with this scenario have any legal advice? He will get a good pension when he retires. What do you think i expect from the future. I know you will say go see a lawyer and i will, but maybe some tidbits of knowledge here too from those who have been there....

Thanks ...this is helpful for me to vent here.

cdm9999

oh yeah, to add something:

You may be wondering WHY IS SHE DOING THIS WHEN WE JUST GAVE HER THIS GOOD ADVICE!!
Well, i didnt read the last few posts that came through yesterday, so I know you probably think I am not listening...i am ...just a little confused and I am sure many of you understand what this is like.

sigma1299

From someone who had one.... HELL FVCKING YES IT'S INFIDELITY!!!!!

He's so far in "the Fog" it's ridiculous. The advice you've gotten so far is good. Don't let him treat you like a door mat. He will cake eat as long as you will allow it.

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