Smartphones have a lot of chat applications that you will never know and won't be recorded on the bill. There are ways to hide appliactions on the phone too.
How does your wife view the OM now?
The smart phone definitely gives me anxiety. I know very little about them. I carry a Blackberry for work, but I am not a phone obsessed person. It's a tool for me, not a lifestyle. I have had daydreams about me using a hammer on it, that and every other computer in the house.
Her stories have been confusing to say the least. I know him, he's not a friend, but I saw him at church for 4 years. She wants me to believe that he is suicidal, and she was pursuing him even after I discovered. But the reality I have gotten from the emails I read she thought she deleted is that she did try to break it off after I discovered, but he just poured on the coals to the fire. He threatened to kill himself, he talked about how he was throwing out or deleting all the things she shared with him, every little comment was something to leverage her. It's very sickening to read.
I say all that to say this. She wants me to believe that she led him astray, that he is a good and caring man, and that I should forgive him. Yeah...that's not going to happen anytime soon. In fact the greatest blessing is that he lives so far away, and out of my reach.
I say all that to say this. She wants me to believe that she led him astray, that he is a good and caring man, and that I should forgive him. Yeah...that's not going to happen anytime soon. In fact the greatest blessing is that he lives so far away, and out of my reach.
WOW, she's still in love with him. You only protect the people you are in love with.
I hope you have been tested for STD's. You are in such major denial. Her actions show she has no respect for you whatsoever and sees you as a fool easy to manipulate. If you do not respect yourself then who will?
Renewing your vows is ludicrous. She clearly had no problem breaking her vows previously so what is the point in making new vows since they are meaningless to her? You really need to see a lawyer to understand all of your options. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be such a doormat as you have become. I do wish you luck because you will need it.
Exposé his cheating with a married woman to his church growers and to friends and family.
It's not revenge you are doing this for. It is exposing his lying and the affair. It is you telling the truth.
He is no man of god, he is showing that through his actions. Heis counting on you being a doormat and not ending him. How many other married women is he also doing thswith? You will be helping more marriages.
As for your wife. I bet the plan in her head is to continue to lie to you until she is better, and your insurance has paid for her healing, and you have provided a warm safe home, and once she is better she will dump you and run off to be with him.
She has done nothing but le and use you, and you keep uncovering it, and forgiving. You see the pattern here?
Your one chance is to expose her cheating and her OM and make the affairs see the light of day which will help stop them. Posted via Mobile Device
I agree with Shaggy, expose his adultery to his congregation so that he can realize his sin, find grace in that Jesus took up the punishment for this sin and help him along his path to repentence. If he is a Christian, and had made leading others to Christ his calling then he will be grateful for your courage to do the right thing and put him on back on the righteous path.
My thoughts on renewing your vows--tell her you want to put it off until next summer. Say you are still very much in shock, wounded, needing to heal, and this summer is much too soon for you to experience such a ceremony without some pain. The truth is, renewing your vows will always be something bittersweet now, but there is no rush to do this.
As others said, verify. Someone who lied and lied and lied some more--well, your gut instinct isn't to believe them, and there's a very good reason for that. Her affair was a powerful fantasy, and she wasn't going to give it up without a good dose of reality.
I had a similar experience, except that for me DD#1 and DD#2 were three years apart. Same woman, same emotional affair, they only broke it off for a few weeks after DD#1. I just didn't know (as you clearly have learned) that the compulsion to stay in contact is very, very strong and overrides all sense of logic.
I agree with what has been said--keylogger for the computer, GPS and VAR on the car, spyware and GPS on her phone. This is NOT a long term solution. The reason you're even asking is you know you can't live this way indefinitely. That if ultimately she just can't resist the lure of that creepy pastor with zero morality, you will have to let her go.
But in the meantime, if you want to R, and she seems willing to comply, verify. I will tell you what it's done for me (I'm 3 mos. out from DD#2, in February)--greatly reduced my anxiety. Given my husband the chance to prove his loyalty to me. I still check, but I surprised myself by going 14 days without looking at the cell phone bill, and seeing as how I was checking nearly every hour on the hour back in March, I'd say that's progress.
Eventually you will have to step out on a limb and trust her again. But with a DD less than a month ago, now is waaaaay too soon to be even contemplating that.
Someone else probably mentioned this, but she needs to be giving you total transparency. She's accounting for her time, she's checking in with you throughout the day, she gives you all her passwords to everything (facebook, email accounts, chat accounts, etc.). The keylogger on the computer will verify that she doesn't have secret accounts she's withholding from you.
I also was able to read emails that my husband thought was deleted. While some of them revealed some terrible things (like the fact that he was in his affair during our 6+ mos of MC back in 2008), they also aligned with a lot of my husband's story. Since these were emails I discovered myself, it helped me a lot in restoring my trust.
It's early days for you yet. I didn't discover that the affair continued after DD#1 through those 6 mos of MC until 2 or 3 weeks after DD#2. Cheaters, down to the man or woman, employ "trickle truth": they are so accustomed to lying to you about the affair, that after discovery the just keep right on lying. They prefer to tell you stuff only on a 'need to know basis' and they lie to themselves that they are 'protecting you.' So just realize that there may be a bombshell or two left, although maybe not, you've had enough for a lifetime.
I have totally have walked / am walking in your shoes, have faith that you will sort out the right choices.
1) Have a good marriage, where your wife loves you and is faithful to you. (THIS WILL REQUIRE YOU TO SET BOUNDARIES AND CONDITIONS FOR YOUR WIFE TO FOLLOW IF SHE WANTS YOU NOT TO DIVORCE HER, THEN TO MONITOR THOSE CONDITIONS, AND INITIATE DIVORCE IF SHE DOESN'T FOLLOW THEM).
or
2) Have a marriage that is tolerable to you, where your wife cheats on you behind your back, but you remain mostly unaware of it, catching her every so often, with her swearing to end the affair, and then have it start up again, probably with the same other man, but maybe with a new one. (THIS WILL REQUIRE YOU TO DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW).
If your wife loved you, she would be actively trying to do everything in her power to help you heal from her betrayal and forgive her; her still defending the other man now as good and honorable (after how dis-honorably he acted after the temporary no contact) shows that she still has very strong feelings for him - she does not see what a lowlife he really is - she is still in the fog and very likely still is in contact with him.
Given the situation you describe and how uncomfortable you are, why does your wife still have access to a cell phone and computer? If you gave her a choice, give up the cell phone or computer until you rebuild trust, or accept a divorce, which do you think she would choose?
If I read your posts correctly, you are not interested in doing the things that are necessary to save your marriage - namely exposing the affair and imposing conditions that make you feel safe the affair is over (like her giving up access to the devices until your trust is rebuilt).
I think you stated that you just want the truth of whether your wife is continuing to cheat on you, so you can leave her if she is.
In that case, simply ask your wife to take a lie detector test. Given the fact that she cheated on you again even after being caught the first time, she should understand your need for this. Any reasonable person would understand how you feel - might not like it, but would understand it. If you were in your wife's shoes, and you weren't cheating now, but had already been caught twice, wouldn't you agree to it? I don't know how accurate polygraphs are, but just her reaction and her willingness or unwillingness to take one should tell you a lot. If she does agree to it, schedule it and go through with it. She may be counting on you not going through with it if she agrees. Some cheaters wait to confess their affairs until they are on their way to the polygraph.
Also, do the spy stuff the others recommend. Voice-activated recorders in the car, house, gps on the car, keyloggers, etc. With those things secretly in place, he or she will slip up and you will discover the truth.
WOW, she's still in love with him. You only protect the people you are in love with.
Partially, she's clearly delusional about her KISA. Expose her second affair to him and expose him to the congregation, with hard - undeniable - evidence.
Still, as she was also cibersexing OM2 - HSBFF simultaneously it's no wonder she could believe she's the succubus who led this mad of good sin.
You talk briefly about her conducting 2 A's at the same time----What is your wife really all about???? What was the 2nd A., all about???????
You seem to be probably in your late 40's or 50's----so you lived in a time when there were no cellphones, and there were no computers---there was just the landline
In your situation, and if your wife is serious about NC, with her lovers, and you really wanna stay with her, and make this work---then you give her the following ultimatum
She does not get to have a cellphone OF ANY KIND---if she needs to make a call she uses your landline---otherwise she has no need of a phone.---She is not to go anywhere near a computer----if she violates these boundaries---she is gone
It is obvious she depends on you for support---so you can make these boundaries stick----if she doesn't get to call her friends/lovers/children/family on a cellphone---to bad----guess what a landline works very nicely, and you can trace each and every call that was made---she can't delete them.
You make her sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS CLAUSE---make it strongly in your favor, so she will think twice before violating her boundaries
She MUST DO ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING TO STAY IN THIS MGE----the main problems, seem to be her need to be with other men via her electronics, so that has to be taken away from her
By demanding these boundaries, you will really find out where she stands in re: YOU
If she agrees to your boundaries, and there do need to be others, which you should be able to work out from reading and listening---then you need to change your work situation so you can and will spend more time with her----
As to your vow renewal, at this time, that is just phony sentiment---you have no vows to renew---what you need to do, is to try to start a new mge., from the ashes of the dead mge-------but as to vows---she knows not, and cares not, what they mean, so why renew!!!!!!
Wow, some of that was tough to read. I will try to fill in all the blanks I left as obvious by the questions. Let me say this, I appreciate and understand all you have said. I apologize for being a rookie, but this is my first time dealing with this.
The other affair was with the last boyfriend she had before we met. They reconnected in 2010 (before the affair with the pastor), and again in the Fall of 2011 (during the affair with the pastor). From the limited amount of info I have it seems to have been "Skype-sex" mutual masturbation, and sexting of naked pictures back and forth. This amazes me as my wife has never before even alluded to an interest in these types of things. The pastor doesn't know about it, only she and I do. I have located the man's wife's work address and am only too tempted to send her the Facebook chat log I forwarded to myself while logged on to her account. I also have the idea that sending it to the pastor isn't too shabby of an idea.
I am in my early 40's my wife is in her late 40's, to answer the age debate.
Here is my only hang up with exposing the affair. If my wife has truly severed all contact and is working to rebuild our marriage, exposing the truth means it will get out in our little home town. This man was one of the pastors of our church and has recently started going back there. His oldest daughter also attends there. He is now working as a used car salesman, he is no longer pastoring.
It's not that I fear losing my wife and our 10 years of marriage, although it would break my heart (again). It's that I really don't know what the truth is. I have already prepared packets of emails, video's, pictures of cards they sent each other, sex toys, etc. for mailing to his kids should I ever find them in contact again. It's that my wife is smart enough and I am now also to realize that the internet is wide open. She can create an alternate email address and Facebook or Skype in minutes and be back up and running. So I suppose the key logger/spyware idea is the only route to go. Can that also be done on a smartphone? She has volunteered to get a phone that does phone and text only with no internet access, and I believe that is where we are going next. I simply can't live this life of high anxiety.
I look in her eyes, and she says the things she used to say to me and I want desperately to believe. I want this to go away and never to have to introduce my children to this reality I live in. But the reality is and some have said it here, she lied to me for over 1.5 years and I had not one clue. I look back and all the signs were there, but I thought "no, not my wife". But she could lie to me now and I would still have no idea at all. I want too much to trust her, and the reality is I don't and I shouldn't.
Thanks for the comments, I apologize for disappearing like that, we took some time off this weekend down at the lake. Everybody needed to get away. I should mention since January we have experienced the death of my wife's best friend, and a tornado destroyed our house. That's what exposed to me the affair was still going on, when cleaning out the house, there was no place to hide things anymore. I found the cards, the second cell phone she had purchased, the sex toys, etc all within a matter of days.
Here is my only hang up with exposing the affair. If my wife has truly severed all contact and is working to rebuild our marriage, exposing the truth means it will get out in our little home town.
I normally don't recommend exposing the affair initially, only after the cheater has shown they are willing to lie and hide things to continue the affair. Your wife has done this.
You had D-Day #1 in November. #2 in April, with another NC message that was a lie before it even happened because your wife immediately emailed other man that she didn't mean any of it.
Exposure really is the most effective weapon because the other man's wife/family help you monitor by keeping an eye on him. It also clears up your wife's foggy thinking when the other man throws her under the bus and she sees him for what he really is, that he is not willing to fight for her like you have.
Affairs thrive in secrecy and exposure ends the secrecy. A lot of the excitement of the affair comes from the hiding of it. When it's all out in the open, and the cheaters' families and friends are showing their disapproval, the affair loses much of its lustre.
If your wife had broken down in a sobbing, crying, wailing, blubbering, snot-running mess after D-Day #1, exposure probably would not be necessary. Your wife coldly lied and took it further underground, then undermined a subsequent no contact message. She carried this affair on for a long time despite thinking she might lose you over it, even after you caught her twice. Using common sense, do you think she really is now out of the fog and committed to you? Or will she relapse into the affair the first time the other man goes fishing for contact? Or will she wait a while and then go fishing for contact?
If you want to kill this affair once and for all, then expose it now. You don't have to show all of the evidence and documentation to everyone you expose to. Offer it to the other man's wife or family, if they refuse to believe what you are telling them. With your family and her family and friends, just tell them that she had an affair, tell them with whom, and tell them you would like their support as you try to rebuild your marriage.
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Re: Is it really over? 
