Update: I received emails back from both the daughter and the son. The daughter who has a long history of trying to destroy her father by various means requested I send her all of the evidence I collected. I told her I would not (knowing how she would love to use it) but told her I would answer any question she asked me truthfully. I know this may seem a bit lame on my part but that stuff can only harm my wife's reputation back home, and if we are truly reconciling I don't want to harm the process. I will however spread it far and wide if I find her in contact with the OM even one more time. But at present I am holding it in reserve in case of reconnect or divorce. I may owe this gal for exposing the affair, but knowing her and all of the problems she has caused in our town and church, my feeling is she would just like another opportunity to stick one to daddy, and I don't want any part of that.
The son baffled me with his response. At first he wrote me back and said he had some questions he would like answered, and empathized with me a great deal as he had went through infidelity with his own wife. He said he would think about it for a few days and get back to me. His comment was that he was disappointed that his Dad had lied to him, but it was not unexpected in his knowledge of how affair exposures go. Two days later he emailed me back and said he had changed his mind and did not want to know anything, he was more focused on his mother's impending passing from Alzheimer's and did not think he wanted to add to that.
I spoke to my wife last week regarding my low trust level with her and the internet. We discussed the phone and the computers at length. She handed over her two old iphones, and the non-functional laptop. She agreed to stay off the computer unless she was in my presence or informed me that she would be online. Whenever she is on the phone she tells me and shows me who she is texting. Whenever she leaves my presence and has the phone with her, she leaves the phone right in front of me before she goes.
I have Spectresoft software downloaded to a jump drive and waiting on opportunity to install it on her laptop(s). I have been researching the same for her windows smart phone, as well as monitoring her email and Facebook. She has another Facebook under her name on her original Facebook friends list but it has been deactivated and I cannot find an email address that will open it. That with the drop phone she purchased in December shows me how far into the fog she was, and makes me wonder right now if she is out of it totally.
She isn't hiding the phone from me anymore and has committed to leaving it in the bedroom unless she needs to use it. And for a week it has gone well. She is no longer tied to it as she was before, although truthfully since DD#2 her use of the phone had dropped off to almost nothing as well as her computer time.
Taken together it all makes me a little confused and wondering. It seems like everyone who's life was affected by this affair just seems to want to sweep it under the rug and say let's move on and forget it even happened. I don't need it dragged out into the street, but it baffles me how his kids who were brought into this by his choice and lied to, don't seem to have any questions.
I can understand the son's outlook. He doesn't care about his father. His only concern is his mother and her illness. He might be thinking that nothing good will come out of pursuing the matter and will only add more stress.
What I told them in my email was this. All throughout this process I have run into nothing but lies and deceit. I wished for someone all along that would just tell me the truth. Instead I had to drag the truth kicking and screaming out into the light (twice). I offered to be that person for them, nothing more. I am sure I don't know the whole truth, but I would bet I have 80% of it. I offered to share it with them and was surprised by their responses.
Sorry... 2x4. While I know this is overwhelming to you, they are watching their mother die. They have their own major trauma going on that is a lot more personal to them than your troubles. I think it is kind of heartless to try and push your infidelity agenda on them WHILE their mother dies in her bed. You’ve said enough already... let it go.
I’m actually more curious about how your wife is taking it. She betrayed that woman who is dying. That man of cloth betrayed his dying wife... What a winner. How does she see all this? Watch her carefully.... a remorseful response is she should be feeling horrible about all it and even maybe a bit pissed that this woman will die never knowing what a prick her husband was for betraying her. I know my WW would be showing very deep signs of depression at a minimum.
But watch out... She may use it as an opportunity to express condolences and start it up again too.
But watch out... She may use it as an opportunity to express condolences and start it up again too.
@Racer, yeah I get that. The only reason I reached out to them is that I did promise the daughter that if I ever got to the bottom of it I would let them know. Meanwhile she was in and out of jail and then got married. She has a very troubled past, but none the less I figured I would keep my word. She offered her brother a person more able to see my perspective, because of his experiences in his own life.
I did know the OM wife was terminal, and because that was the hinge pin for when they were to be able to be together from all of their emails and texts I read, it did create in me a panic. But you are right, it was bad timing and little senseless on my part. I let it be as it was, I left them knowing that I know, and if they would like to I am always here.
I am watching my wife very carefully right now. It's hard to gauge since my wife has always been 1) a little closed off emotionally as is most of her family 2) pretty cut and dried once she has made her mind up on things. I know her well enough even after this to know that even though she engaged in things that are widely inappropriate and hurtful, she still operates fundamentally the same way. When I say she wants to rug sweep, I don't just mean about the affair, I mean it's a way of life for her. She will rant and rave about a thing, and then once her mind is made up...boom. She doesn't want to discuss it or relive it again. I hold grudges, but my wife is better than even I can aspire to. So in seeing that her behavior is returning to normal, her daily happiness level is going back up, her efforts to contact me daily to tell me things and share things with me are up, it seems to me in the old manner I had of trusting her that it is over. But my trust level with her is at an all time low. I have told her that our marriage and my trust of her in it should be her highest priority, and that if she wants them she must take it as a priority to rebuild them, not wait for me to lead but take charge of it herself. She seems to be, but the ideas and experiences shared here make me wary of how typical her actions were before DD, after, and up until DD 2.
I know there is at least part of this story that will rankle a few, but I have received valued advice here and have taken or not taken it as my head and my heart led me to do.
July 4th was our 10 year anniversary. Being a little over 60-ish days after DD#2, as you can imagine I had mixed emotions, and more than a bit of painting on a happy face. As suggested I killed the idea of renewing our wedding vows, wife was not unhappy but seemed a bit confused about it. I told her it was too soon after the affair and that from my point of view my vows were intact. So I told her what I wanted was a private time for the two of us, where we could share more about what our marriage meant to us now, and where we were going in the future.
We spent the week at her parents lake house, with the in-laws. Our kids are all in their 20's so their lives were too busy to go with us. My wife shocked me a bit, as she usually doesn't go this deep emotionally with me or anyone else. She bought me a new wedding band I had expressed interest in some time back. She took off my old band and asked me to accept this new one, as the promise she made with the original had been broken by her, and she wanted to make me a new promise with the new band when I was ready to accept it and believe her that she meant it.
We spent lots of time doing things we both enjoy at the lake. But one subject that came up repeatedly was a "girls cruise" she takes every year with her mother (late 60's) and many of her canasta / bridge club friends. Not exactly the partying crowd as many of them are pushing 70's and 80's in age, but none the less travel away and without me.
On the drive home I told her we should discuss it, because I was not inclined to let her go anywhere without me just yet, even though the trip is not until February. The discussion evolved into a lot of tears on her part, comments about the remorse and guilt she felt at betraying my trust, and having to be "babysat" constantly. She expressed to me that she was doing everything she could think of to let me know how much she loved me, how much she was sorry for betraying our life and our love, and how much having that trust back in our marriage meant to her.
The discussion turned to the affair(s). I asked her if she wanted to fill me in on anything she had not told me or had previously omitted or glossed over, whether for fear of hurting me or simply to hide the truth from me. She started crying a lot and I could tell there was more, I just couldn't put my finger on it. I pulled out at a rest stop to smoke, and after much crying in the car she came out to talk. I continued to ask her some of the small things I had written off like a Facebook private message from a former boyfriend of her's the father of our oldest that was deleted two months ago. I noticed it, but at the time was leery about reading it. I also told her that I noticed he had left her a voice mail message on her old phone about the same time period, the week our house was hit in the tornado. I told her that I wasn't afraid of the truth, just afraid of living a lie with her, and that anymore lies would result in the divorce I promised her after DD2. She looked at me and told me that he had written her to let her know he still had feelings for her and that he wanted to know if she still had feelings for him. She told me that she had written back to him telling him we were together and that was it, and deleted the message. This is before the spyware went in on her computer so I have nothing more to go on. She says that they would talk sometimes, and that he had come to a big city 3 hours away years ago, but she had researched his hotel but never went to see him. He is married with children.
She assured me, and I have seen some of their old love letters from the 80's to confirm, that he physically abused her and she has no interest in him at all. He would never admit to being our son's father, even though they were in a long term monogamous relationship, and never paid child support after he found our she was pregnant and dumped her. She claims that it caught her by surprise and so she didn't really know if or how to discuss it with me. I imagine she was sending out the vibe and he picked up on it or something.
We rehashed some of the the things about her affair with the pastor and the online tryst she carried on a couple of times with another former boyfriend, nothing I didn't already know. Just trying to provide the atmosphere that at some point I would wish she could just paint the picture for me with no lies. I feel that she has made great strides there, but I know there is more. I am just not sure 1) if it is anything of any great importance 2) anything worth worrying about. I finished by telling her that now that I know, we will not survive if there is this place we cannot go in our relationship. We will not survive with secrets in our past or present. I have spent more time in prayer over this than I have care to admit, most ashamedly because i have never went to God with anything as much as this. That hurts to admit, living most of my life as a Christian. I feel like God put me here in this life to create a life for this woman and our three amazing kids. And as much as it hurts from time to time, this recovery thing is almost as hard as the discovery thing.
I have stopped short of telling my wife about this place, mostly because I think she would be mortified to know that our life is out here on the internet and so is her big secret. But I have shared with her all of the insight I have gained here about truth, her stages of coming out of the fog, seeing the OM and the chances of success with him for what they truly are, and she has been in agreement with most all of it, some parts needed some discussion to break down the walls.
She seems truly happy here with me again, and we are spending more time together than anytime perhaps except just after we were married. I am watching her for any signs, email and Facebook are open to me. Nothing even remotely interesting in those or on the spyware reports. I have not had an opportunity to put the spyware on her smart phone, but she leaves it in the bedroom or in plain sight at all times, and no longer carried it anywhere if I am not going with her.
Not sure there is much else, and here's hoping everyone had a great holiday week.
What kind of marriage do you really have if you keep her on a short chain. Sounds like your doing all the work, how many Ddays does she get?
I'll bet you she is just being extra careful right now. I gave my wife enough rope so if she's gonna cheat again let her. I think caging an animal will make them turn on you, same thing goes for our WW's. Sorry for not telling you what you wanna hear but that's what alot of BS on this site do. There is some great advise but don't just listen to the ones that tell you what you wanna hear. Alot of us are in complete denial, at times I am too because I don't want to have to start over at my age. By the way this is just my opinion, I'm also a bit angry today because my WW didn't let me check her phone before leaving for work this morning, she said she was running late. Maybe she was but I know deep down the trust is gone and I don't think it can ever be fully restored. Posted via Mobile Device
What kind of marriage do you really have if you keep her on a short chain. Sounds like your doing all the work, how many Ddays does she get?
Posted via Mobile Device
In reality, once a spouse has done this to you (me), that complete trust I had for her is gone and can never be regained. The marriage that we had is lost and can never be regained, for the most part what it had become I don't think either one of us want it. But where I came to was a choice, stay or go. Accept that my wife is imperfect and had made a tragic mistake and hurt me the way no one else could, or leave and try for a fresh start with someone else. I suppose the way I look at it is this, the past can't hurt us as long as it is pulled out into the light and exposed. As long as there is nothing more in the present and no contact is maintained I am willing to forgive and help her work through the remains of our marriage and build a new one with her. Rather than see the pattern of abuse and chaos that ruled her and the kids early life continue. But I believe in and have no problem with "trust but verify". Do I consider this latest revelation a "DD3"? No, I have found nothing to point me in that direction. I think she was sending out the vibe and this old boyfriend bit. But that was in the past, and she handled it, or so she says.
Yes I may be doing the heavy lifting right now, and perhaps I am just fencing her in. But if her remorse for what she did is true remorse there will be nothing further. I have already set the bar for divorce if I see anything remotely suspicious and she knows it. The ball is in her court, and so far what I see is a person emerging from the fog and taking responsibility for her actions. It may not be in the way I would want her to, but she is doing it, and so I am not going to squash that effort. Did I think to get all the responses for the positive for what I am trying to lead us through? No, heck 6 months ago I would have called me a crazy fool. But this is that path I have chosen, sort of half way in between extremes I hope.
So aside from you watching her like a hawk, which actually, doesn't work---CUZ YOU NEVER KNEW A THING ABOUT HER CONTACT WITH THE FATHER OF HER VERY FIRST CHILD, what else is new and exciting????
You slid the admission of contact with another male, under the rug----Didn't she have a boundary in place, I guess there was, but you are choosing to ignore her indescretions, again., and there seem to be no consequences.
Your wife seemingly has just moved right back into her lifestyle AS IF NOTHING EVER HAPPENED. I guess that's what you want, cuz she certainly seems to be suffering no accountability/consequences.
Look, this is your life, you obviously get to choose, what you will do with your life, you arn't that far away from your golden years, where you will spend, all of your time with your wife, cuz basically that's the way it is, is this who you wanna do that with???
Your wife is still being selfish, she did whatever she did with her X---you never knew ( recent e-mail contact)---she wants to go on a cruise----for her even to ask, just short months after having been "outed", is ludicrous----it may be next feb., but it is her alone, with other available men, for however long, in a highly charged, basically romantic atmosphere---Do you honestly think the 70/80 yr old ladies, are gonna care what she does, at night---for her to even ask, should have gotten a strong response from you
So she would come back and say you are controlling, not allowing her any fun----your answer---NOT WITH YOUR TRACK RECORD, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO FILE FOR D.
8 months from now, when this cruise comes up, you will be a lot calmer, things will have normalized, cuz they have basically been swept under the rug, and she will feel much easier, about what she does---if she has a penchant for other men, as she seems to, she will be looking around---alcohol will be flowing, there will be dancing, games, fun, and most of all OTHER MEN---and where will you be---oh, your home, letting her go----but then again--its your life, and your wife.
One last thing, why is she staying with you, is it cuz, she knows she can;t make it on her own, if she leaves, or you D., her, or is it truly cuz she loves you-----but that last statement can't be true, can it---for she has replaced you with at least 2 men, that you know of in the last couple of years alone----for her to say I love you, but tear up, when the lover she really wants, is mentioned, is pure BS.
I commend you for trying to reconcile with your wife. Its no secret that I am very pro-marriage. And I also don't have any problems with you maintaining the verification process for some time to come. The truth is that after R my wife and I still check each other's computers, phones etc regularly although since its been 20 years. Its not done with investigation in mind. Its more adhering to the philosophy that there really is no privacy in a marriage. I also don't see a problem with telling her you don't feel comfortable with her going on a trip without you. She has demonstrated that she cannot be trusted and until she earns back that privilege it should not be extended to her.
My issue with what you've posted is not that she was contacted by an ex. Not that she replied to that ex. My issue is that she hid that contact from you. Understand that affairs occur in secrecy. The WS does all they can to hide the affair from everyone of consequence. They develop a mindset of secrecy that can last beyond when the affair actually ends. It seems to me that your wife still has that need for secrecy. Until that is purged from her system I don't see how you can have a chance for long term successful reconciliation.
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Re: Is it really over? 
