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Faking remorse

77K views 266 replies 54 participants last post by  MattMatt 
#1 ·
My WW appears to be very sorry for her 3 year A, but I can't help but think it's all just a big act. How hard/easy would it be for a WS to fake being remorseful? I figure not that hard since they all have mastered the art of lying. How do I know she's truly sorry? I haven't posted my whole story yet because it's still unfolding. She admitted that she had been having an A for the past 3 years but has claimed NC since March. I talked to her the other day about the NC letter I read about on this site and she refuses to write or send one to the OM. I have been keeping a close eye on her but I'm not sure she has completely cut ties with the OM, she won't tell me much about him. Should I push her for more Info?
 
#36 ·
I Know im going to get blasted for this but i really do struggle with the NC letter thing!
Even if a NC letter is written and sent then this is still no guarantee that the A isnt still going on!

Picture the scene WS txts AP - "He's making me send you a NC letter. Take no notice of it. i'm just doing it to get him off my back"
:scratchhead:

I just dont see how a NC letter is proof that the A is over!
 
#38 ·
It isn't proof that the affair is over.

What it does (in the words of our very good MC) is it creates an ending ritual. It creates a barrier, albeit small, where the OM / OW is officially rejected and now to reestablish the relationship a bit of face-saving has to be overcome.

It also officially sets up a line where verification starts. It NC is breached, that triggers consequences.

NC letters all by themselves are worthless pieces of paper. It's the hard consequences enforcing them that make them worth the time.

Most people aren't willing to file for divorce or expose, and those are pretty much the only consequences strong enough to make the NC mean something.

Them's the breaks.
 
#37 ·
completely lost,

It is very difficult to hate a parent that you have always had an even decent relationship with. Your children may initially feel anger towards your wife, but they will deal with it and resume a relationship with her.

My father was/is a serial cheater. I feel sad for my parents' relationship with each other, but I don't hate him. I had some anger towards him during my teen years, but eventually I realized that it wasn't my place to feel that anger. I accept him, faults and all, because he is my father. We have a relationship that is completely outside of his relationship with my mother. I wish they could have had a better marriage, but their marriage is not about me. I'm sure your children will come to the same realization.
 
#40 ·
Dude you are so screwed. The affair isn't over, its been put on the back burner until the dust settles which is why she refused the NC (she doesn't want to permantly end it). She didn't end it on her own, she got busted.

You can't just walk away from a 3 YEAR relationship like that and not look back at some point. This is not over, not by a long shot and odds are you are going to be dealing with the fallout for the next several months, if not a year or two. She WILL try to hook up with him some time in the future, its just a matter of when.
 
#43 ·
Yes, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in No Contact letters.

I believe in No Contact letters + swift enforcement.

It's probably because of my parenting style. Cheaters are very much like children. You are shaping their behavior by the way you react to their misbehavior. If you coddle them, they'll do it again. If you confront directly without enough evidence, they'll lie. And if you threaten anything and don't follow through, you are in for a world of hurt because now they will take what they learned in situation X and apply it to situation Y. You are literally training them to cheat on you more and better.

We often use the phrase ACTIONS, NOT WORDS to apply to whether or not a cheater is remorseful.

The same applies double for the betrayed spouse. Words are worthless.
 
#45 ·
Please take this as intended, I'm trying to help you...

Get your flucking head out of your a$$. This is not going to play out anything like your imagining. Everything you hear, and everything you see is a lie.

Wake up call.

Like it or not, you are about to play a very high stakes game, if you don't make the rules you will be playing by hers... You will get eaten alive.

Your in the eye of a storm. Your reality is rooted on two things right now... What she tells you, and what you feel. Neither one of them can be trusted.

She is lying to you and you are lying to yourself. She is protecting herself and her interests and you are protecting yourself. Your in shock, an thermo nuclear emotional bomb just exploded on your world... There is a basic human reaction that almost everyone experiences in these situations... We are all compelled to 'fix' and we use denial, rationalizations, minimizing and blame martyring to compartmentalize the pain and cope with the crisis.... It's all smoke and mirrors bro... These things are your enemy if you want real reconciliation...

This is the reality she has brought on your family, you are not doing anyone any favors by re-writing it or hiding it.

In my experience, the ones that survive these trials and find the path to true reconciliation are always the ones that stare it in the eyes and find the courage to attack it head on. If your don't own this fight, it will own you.
 
#123 ·
If you ignore what Eli-Zor just said, you will regret it terribly. The fear causing you not to expose will be dwarfed by the pain and frustration of being railroaded into a corner you can't get out of.

Your going to get flucked, you REALLY think they don't have a plan?!?. An entire storyline is already drawn up. It's Two vs One and the TWO are HIGHLY motivated and completely without conscience. In thier story you are the bad guy and they are soulmate shmoopies....

Clear your head, go back a couple pages....

Get your flucking head out of your a$$. This is not going to play out anything like your imagining.

Wake up call.

Like it or not, you are about to play a very high stakes game, if you don't make the rules you will be playing by hers... You will get eaten alive.
You seem to think divorce is a consequence to her? lol. She doesn't give a fluck, this marraige has been over for a very long time in her eyes. She just wants it her way, bet your a$$ she has a plan to make that happen.
 
#53 ·
I'm not sure I even want to stay married to her. About 5 years ago we separated for 2 months, not because of cheating. We have had issues in the marriage but always worked through them, I just don't think I've got that much fight left in me. I just don't want to be taken to the cleaners and if it gets nasty it could cost me alot.
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#52 ·
My wife could not fake remorse, just like she could not fake being in an A, just like I know when she is into me during sex, etc. I know when she is lying. That is me and my situation I know her fairly well.

Remorse is seen by actions and words. Your wife is not showing remorse like the others have said.

Pit is dead on.
 
#56 ·
what you are still not seeing, is that those problems was because of the cheating. and yeah all marriages have problems, but maybe you was reacting to her giving you some bad vibes for some reason. short tempered, cool toward you, you see what I mean ?? She say 3 yrs, but could it have really been 5? That may have really been when it was starting. you just never got the ILYBINILWY speech. And now if she say 5 instead, you would automatically put two an two together. Look, just take this as a opportunity to trade up from a lemon to a peach. Her long held contempt is just too much for her to hide at how she made a complete fool out of you, so she is not even trying So give her what she needs, and let her live how hard it is for a middle age cheating sk**k to find someone to grow old with. Two young adult kids, lil $$ in the bank, "even after", with a DAMN good reason to dump a morally bankrupt Sl*t, hell, we could call you Forbes. Not the Donald and his Ga. peach. We all saw how long that lasted. About as long as it took for her to get caught with the lifeguard under the lifeguard stand on the beach at night. But you get my drift. YOU if you want, will be a REAL catch for some good woman looking for a good man. So yeah, its not worth it, to continue live with someone who holds so little respect for herself, you, your children, and your marriage. And to be honest. You don't really sound completely lost. Sadden maybe, also a little relieved. So take the gift she gave you and give her walking papers.
 
#61 · (Edited)
Completely - you don't have to decide definitely about R now. Let it ride for now. See a lawyer with out letting her know and see where you stand. Although cheating does not effect the property split formally, informally it does. Judges do not look favorably on cheaters. Get documentation. Did she spend any family assets to conduct the affair. How much time did she take with the AP that could have been spent with her children and husband. Figure in the time for communication, emails, text, phone, travel, hotels, etc. did she ever leave the kids with a baby sitter to meet the OM?

How often did you have sex with her and how often did she and the OM? She took things of value away from you and your kids for 3 yrs. she was not present mentally with her children if she was leading a double life. I don't call her a good mother. She is a moral failure and poor example to children. She took time away from nurturing her children to persue sexual pleasure for 3 yrs. what good mother would abandon her children for the persuit of trivial oragsms?

She does not want to send a NC letter? Then she cares more about the OM than she dies you, the man who has remainded faithful to her. I am not sure what other motivation you have for staying besides finances and of course children.

The financial stuff can be mitigated by careful planing, documentation and a good lawyer. You will recover financially from the divorce..

It will take you about 5 yrs to get over this. By that time you can be in a new relationship with a woman who is honest and loving. You will also have recovered financially. What will your life be with an unrepentant wife that enjoys the warmth of a home with you? Perhaps in 5 yrs she will think it is safe to have another affair.

It sounds to me as if she does not diserve a faithful good husband. I think it will dawn on you eventually what is best to do. No hurry but plan well.
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#62 ·
Since the actions are not there, and you want to get her on board, you need to start tightening the screws. Of course you must realize no matter what happens, there is a good chance this is going to end in divorce.

See a lawyer, let her know you have seen one without telling her. Start filling out the papers etc. Start making lists of what needs to be done, things you don't want, things you do.

How much time, what days you want the kids. Where they will go to school. Plans to sell the house. Ask your wife if she knows a real estate agent to sell the house.

Nothing in particular but make sure she gets a clear message you can and will move on and that you will be fine. Any time you show weakness she will treat you like a dog. Don't let her do it. Be stronger than her and fight for your kids lives.
 
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#63 ·
It is a symbolic action taken willingly by the DS/WS in order to show his/her LS/BS how serious he/she is about doing everything that will be needed for reconciliation. It is one of the easiest things that a remorseful DS/WS can do for his/her LS/BS but extremely hard for the unremorseful DS/WS to do.
 
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#66 ·
whitelamp, may I recommend the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass (google books excerpts linked in my signature) to help you get up to speed on certain types of recommendations made for BSs. The book was written by a nationally recognized researcher in infidelity, Shirley Glass, who is unfortunately deceased. Her book is extremely thorough and detailed. While there is some terminology you'll see on the forum that doesn't quite match her book, and (because her book was written some time ago) she doesn't go into a lot of the technical cold war that seems to be going on between BSs and WSs in terms of hiding cheating, it still is one of the most comprehensive books on the subject. It includes, in particular, a great deal of material on the insidious nature of emotional affairs.

I had already read the book when our terrific MC handed it to my husband. There are others (Surviving the Affair by Dr. Harley) that are good but I've found NJF to be the very comprehensive.
 
#64 ·
Only one NC letter will suffice.

Perhaps the word symbolic is too quaint and meaningless a word for you then please consider the word 'litmus' as a better choice. The willingness - or unwillingness - of the DS/WS to write the NC is a litmus test to how much his/her actions match their words. The action of writing the NC and sending it is one of the best ways for determining whether the spouse is serious about R or is just trying to lie to the LS/BS in order to continue contact with the AP.
 
#67 ·
She had her fun now she wants to get back to where things were before.
 
#68 ·
The No Contact letter is only important if your wife is willing to end the affair.

Your situation has not progressed to the point of sending a no contact letter, however, it is very telling that she refused to send one, and also that she refused to name her lover - both huge red flags that she had no intention of ending the affair.

You made some mistakes in handling your wife's affair. The biggest one was in not demanding to know who the other man is. So you have to go back to step 1 - find out who the other man is. Get the details of the affair. Determine if it still is going on. Continue to investigate.

In the meantime, ask your wife to tell you the truth. Tell your wife that you are too tired and worn out to snoop or spy on her and you have no intention of doing so (even though you really are). Tell her you expect her to tell you the truth on her own, or you will divorce her. Tell her to start with the other man's name, address, phone number, email, etc.

Tell your wife that you cannot control her. You can only control yourself and how you react to what she does or doesn't do, what you are willing to accept in your marriage and what you are not willing to accept in your marriage.

Tell your wife that if she doesn't tell you any detail you ask her for about the affair, you will file for divorce. Then, if she refuses, do it. Really, if she would choose to keep these secrets over your marriage, what have you lost? Also, divorce is a long process that can be canceled if your wife does agree to your conditions.

Tell her these are your conditions for staying married to her:

1. The truth. Polygraph if you need it.

2. Transparency. Access to all devices and accounts. No deleting of anything going forward. She let's you know of her whereabouts 24/7. Get rid of facebook or downgrade to a cell phone with very limited features if you determine that's what you need.

3. No contact letter to the other man stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how terrible she feels for having risked losing her family, marriage, and husband, which mean more than anything in the world to her, that other man is never attempt to contact her again and if he does she will file harassment charges against him. AGAIN, THERE IS NO POINT IN THIS NO CONTACT LETTER IF SHE HASN'T DEMONSTRATED (BY ACTIONS, NOT JUST WORDS) HER DESIRE TO STAY IN THE MARRIAGE. Telling you the truth would be one way to demonstrate this, transparency would be another, doing what you reasonably ask her to do in order for you to heal is another.

4. Any other conditions you need to help you heal from this. There may be additional conditions based on the truth of the affair.

You may not be able to save your marriage no matter what you do. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. Your wife is playing a game of chicken with you. She is counting on the fact that you are too afraid of breaking up the family to file for divorce.

Also, your wife cheated on you with him for three years. If she could have, she would have left you for him already. There is a reason that she hasn't left you for him. Either he is married, financially unstable, etc. In any event, my bet is that she doesn't want to divorce any more than you do - she is just bolder in being able to risk it, feels comfortable you won't do it, or feels comfortable she can manipulate you out of it.

PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE WORST: If you tell the story you told here to any normal person, they are going to tell you that your wife probably still is cheating on you.
 
#73 ·
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

Gaslighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#72 ·
It comes from an Ingrid Bergman movie, Gaslight, where the husband tricks his wife into thinking she is mentally ill. He hides objects and then they magically show up where they were supposed to be, the gaslights in their turn of the 20th century home flicker and he tells her she must be going in insane.

It's a classic step that disloyal spouses take to obfuscate and deflect the truth of the affair.
 
#74 ·
CL, yes you are still numb, But it seems as if you have just accepted the affair and it continuring. Why else would you go golfing ?? How long was you lurking before posting? If you did any reading before posting, you had an idea of the advice you would receive. You have gotten some great advice, Now the ball is in your court. What do you want to do. One of the Vets I admire for their advice, recently posted on abusing WS's, and I have done that in the past. So I will keep my stuff on point. So to help us let us know how you want to go forward. Now, a point, you say you don't want to hurt mom and kids relationship by exposing, but I say if you have young adults, then treat them like adults. There is no greater lesson that they can learn than, even parents make bad choices. Yes there will be hurt and anger, but life is not an easy task master. We have had ws move out to live with the POS's, leaving kids an all, only to come to their senses an be accepted back. Now I have another ??, can you honestly live with this as it stand ?? If not, plz, act on the advice you have been given. Start with sitting her down and asking for all the info you want about the A. If she is not forthcoming, then pick up the phone and call your oldest, and share what she has done, plus continue to do. and you are D/ing her. If she ask what are you doing before you connect, tell her exactly what you are doing. Man you really need to get your head around this. Pit said it straight. You are playing the HIGHEST STAKED GAME of your life. I can't say what quality of life you will have after this, but good luck CL.
 
#76 ·
The situation 5 years ago had nothing to do with an affair, it was all together different. I went on the golfing weekend because it was work related. As I posted I put a VAR in her car over the weekend, I got it out and as soon as she heads to work in the morning I'll be able to know once and for all if my instinct was right. As I mentioned she has been N C for 3 months and I just don't buy the whole act. If she is still seeing him, she's gone! There will be no more chances, I was at the lawyers office all afternoon, I'm ready this time.
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#82 ·
I will keep this short, my gut feeling was right. Why does being right hurt so dam much. As I mentioned I put the VAR in her car and I got nothing of any concern over the weekend. I left it in yesterday and tonight when she got home from work I took her car to fill it up for her, well that's the excuse I used so I could listen to the VAR. My worst fears were confirmed, she was talking to the AP for over an hour on the phone. Saying things like she loves him and can't wait to see him. I dropped the car off and told her I had to go into the office, I checked into a hotel room for the night because I'm afraid of what I might say or do if she tried to deny it again. I don't normally drink but I've had a few too many tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to the lawyers first thing and getting the papers for D started. Cheating on me for 3 years is one thing but continueing it for another 3 months, I feel like the worlds biggest F***king jacka**. I will not fight for the marraige, it's over it's done. I will keep you all posted as to what happens after tomorrow. I was thinking of packing up her stuff and drop if off at her AP's house, I'll send her a text message with her change of address. Does anyone know if I can just change the locks of the marital home? Wish me luck.
 
#83 ·
I was thinking of packing up her stuff and drop if off at her AP's house, I'll send her a text message with her change of address. Does anyone know if I can just change the locks of the marital home? Wish me luck.
Definately this.

Yes you can change the locks but if she comes back with police you will have to let her in. She'll be in a shock so that's not likely.

Also close any joint accounts you have with her before doing any of the above. All that money will go into sexfest with her OM.

Who was the OM after all?

Sending prayers your way, good luck!
 
#84 ·
Really sorry to hear that.

Yes you can change the locks and that is what I would do. Although she can make you change them back. I find it hard to believe someone could live with me if I did not want them to.

Gut feelings win out again.

Good luck and prayers for you

Chap
 
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