Location: Temporary Resident of Earth Lord Only Knows Where Next
Posts: 5,593
Re: No Contact Rule and Being Sorry
IF you feel that any kind of tie to him (music) is detrimental to the recovery effort you need to make that a condition of R. These are your boundaries to set. While she may not accept it, anything to do with TOM is a cancer in you marriage. She is still deeply in the relationship with TOM (Mentally). To break away she needs to go to extremes to get him out of her head. Just as in other situations here where the WS works with the AP. They have to make a job change. Continuing to listen to his music or radio show is nothing short of a shot glass in front of an alcoholic.
If she refuses continue to work on yourself and spend time with your kids. No sex, no intimacy..... She needs to understand this is a "no go" condition for you.
She's the one who initiated the NC, she's the only one who can help herself about really getting rid of OM in her head. ONLY IF SHE WANTS it she'd seek ''mental NC'' until it becomes total indiference. She's the only one who can commit to not let herself going ''there'' (fantasyland) every time a trigger pops up or a feeting though arises (they are uunaviodable), visualizing a STOP sign (or whatever works for her), using the rubber band.. you name it.
The issue here is she refuses even to admit the impact of her EA had/still has in her thinking process and perceptions of reality (so she focus on the bad marriage, pre-affair stuff, blameshifting at finest). Untill she admit it to herself she won't put any effort in cutting out the obsessive side of the whole thing.
Sit no contact out? Ban the music on pain of what? I leave? Posted via Mobile Device
before answering this, I want to say two things
1) sometimes (but not always) when a WS is showing NC and transparency but no remorse it can be an indicator that they have taken the affair "underground" (IOW, using methods that havent been discovered by your spy techniques like using a burner cell) Change up your tech, use a VAR and GPS if you havent yet, etc
2) WS's will rewrite marital history, exaggerate problems prior to the affair, blameshift and vilify the BS in order to justify their actions of such harm to the BS to have the affair. Yes, your marriage had problems, they all do and yes you can work on them but working on them all by yourself until she takes 100% of teh blame for the affair is fruitless.
to your question:
I would say something along the line of this:
"Yes wife you can do as please, I cannot control you nor am I your keeper. You can listen to his music if you so desire. You can not put in any work towards improving our marriage and accepting blame for the affair. However, I can make my own choices based on what you do, and things harmful to the marriage like disrespecting me and flaunting the affair by listening to his music, and not helping me heal are things that I will not tolerate. I deserve better, I deserve someone who is worthy of my gift of R. As such it appears you are not a person who wishes to remain married to me. Helping a betrayed partner from an affair is a long and arduous task and clearly you are not up to that task, so I will be filing for divorce."
And then you see a lawyer and you file
You read the 180 rules and implement them
do not separate, separation is a cake eating way of her continuing her affair guilt free and financed.
divorce takes times, so if in that time she can demonstrate that she wants the marriage and is willing to work to help you heal you can stop the proceedings
Iheartlife, I'm not sure I understand the one sided thing. It was reciprocated both ways and he did most of the running. Apologies if I misunderstand.
Transparency is there completely - and I have access to accounts etc, including access to OM's thoughts on the matter through a particularly successful bit of hacking!
I put the music thing to WW. Her position is that the EA was nothing to her (denial, I know) and that the problems we have pre-dated it, which is true. She should be able to listen to what she wants is the line. The key question for WW, from her perspective, is whether she wants to be married at all not whether she wants another relationship. She certainly does not want to jump into a full on relationship, just a bit of fun - and preferably with me still at home to come back to for most of the time.
I explained that it was a big deal to me. Her response was that for a long time she has not wanted to put effort into her marriage. 'If it works out then great, if not then it doesn't'. Big pattern for us: Me seeking intimacy, her pulling away from it. Not just our relationship, that is how she is in life.
So now I am checking the separation board thinking her denial of the importance of the EA has substance.
Not that I am confused here! Posted via Mobile Device
EA is nothing to her and your marriage is nothing to her. She said it. She is not committed. Forget the EA for a second, your marriage is a trainwreck about to happen because she could give a rat's as* about it. Is this what you want?
__________________
This kind of cosmic dumbassery occupies a temporal plane of ineptitude and lack of reason so profound a Zen master could spend a lifetime meditating upon its philosophical consequences.”
True remorse would be her proactively giving up everything related to that man. She's definitely not there yet and asking you if she could "congratulate" him is just rubbing salt in the wound.
I know it's hard to believe that she is willing to take a stand on the future of the marriage over this. But it speaks volumes about her commitment.
Reconciliation is not for the faint of heart. This is something that is a scar on the marriage and it will never entirely go away. It is hard ENOUGH with someone who is willing to put in the hard effort.
She is showing where her true loyalty lies. Remember, actions, not words, are what count when showing remorse and a willingness to do what it takes to restore your trust.
Thanks for all your responses. Apologies not to address each one, it does not mean that they were not important to me!
No contact is in place at the moment. I have full control over the technology aspect - she does not have ANY interest in that, we have one computer and I know everything that happens on it. Equally, I have OM's confidant and ex lover on side. He confides in her and I know what is going on. He has no idea that is the case. He lives a few hours away and I know if/when he will be out of town and I know where my WW is whenever I wish to check.
Rewriting marital history is spot on. Even to the extent of saying she never found me sexually attractive and had to be drunk to do it - that despite me recollecting her literally crying with joy when we made love on a sunny morning with no alcohol for days each side (just one example from dozens).
At this moment our marriage is not important to her, this is true. It may become so, or it may not. I don't know. I do know that I would feel terrible if I bailed out before I absolutely had to. When I am old an grey I want to look my two sons in the eye and tell them that I did everything I could for them and for my marriage. I also want my WW to know that I am the one person in her life who has never let her down. She has had quite a bit of crap previously (sexual abuse as a teenager, alcoholic father, etc) and I HAVE to give her every support I can without destroying myself. Posted via Mobile Device
IF you feel that any kind of tie to him (music) is detrimental to the recovery effort you need to make that a condition of R. These are your boundaries to set. While she may not accept it, anything to do with TOM is a cancer in you marriage. She is still deeply in the relationship with TOM (Mentally). To break away she needs to go to extremes to get him out of her head. Just as in other situations here where the WS works with the AP. They have to make a job change. Continuing to listen to his music or radio show is nothing short of a shot glass in front of an alcoholic.
If she refuses continue to work on yourself and spend time with your kids. No sex, no intimacy..... She needs to understand this is a "no go" condition for you.
I am not sure it is detrimental. If I were sure it is not, then I would let it go and concentrate upon other things. If I could get a couple of 'don't sweat that one, look at the bigger picture' posts then I would think again. Posted via Mobile Device
I do know that I would feel terrible if I bailed out before I absolutely had to. When I am old an grey I want to look my two sons in the eye and tell them that I did everything I could for them and for my marriage.
You are not the one bailing, she already has
in order for this to be saved you cannot be afraid to pull the trigger and file, it is the ultimate consequence for her actions. It is also the ultimate test, it in effect puts her to the decision that is being shuffled to the side. "Him or me?"
My problem is I am always chasing. Her problem is she is always pulling away. Good combination!!
I told her that ALL reminders of him have to end or I stop working on us until they do. She reiterated that it is just music and that she listens to lots of people. I made the reasonable point that she hasn't almost left me for those other people. Anyway, first time I have asserted myself on this issue. I really, really need to stop chasing so that she has to do some of the work. If she is unable to then it tells me what I need to know.
However, I am feeling really conflicted here. Not easy!
Seesaw its common sense.you try to cling she pushes you away, so do the opposite. I suggest you give her a bit of stick (and it seems you're trying to work on this marriage), just have a casual conversation about splitting money in any joint accounts, something that gives her a nice little scare and this also serves as a wake up call for most people that are in the fog
Thing is, she doesn't realize the pain you go through with the R. She doesn't think you do that for the sake of the family. She thinks *she's* doing it. Giving you a favor of staying with you. And you confirm it with your behavior.
I agree with the filing advice. Sending a message to your entitled princess that you are ready to move on will send her fairytale crashing.
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