stbxh and I have been separated since d-day (several months). Instead of showing any kind of remorse, he blame-shifted and gas-lighted, blaming me for causing the fallout from exposure, rather than recognizing that his behavior caused it. Some people in his family are taking the opportunity to make things difficult for him, gossiping, exaggerating things, and stirring up trouble among the family to further the agendas of their own animosity against him. He's blaming me because I exposed instead of covering up his behavior. This isn't fair. I didn't gossip through his family and I know that they are using this info against him as they would anything else. If he hadn't behaved the way he did, they would have nothing to use against him and I wouldn't have had anything to complain about. Now, I know that he is upset because his family is giving him a hard time, but, I didn't instigate it, so it seems unfair that he is taking it out on me. He left me a voicemail sending me more blame, saying that I did this to him.
I feel bad that things are difficult for him. I like that he is choosing to reach out to me about it after months of silence and so it seems like an opportunity to deal with our problems. However, his words are blame-shifting and not indicating that he is seeing things clearly.
Here's how I see it.
1) He acted like a jerk (cheating + more) and I objected.
2) He gas-lighted and blame-shifted and I objected, defended myself.
3) When things were exposed and we tried to talk about it among our families, things got out of control and we separated.
4) We attempted to discuss things, but ended in circular arguments, so I went dark and disappeared.
5) He's finally contacted me. We had a couple of polite conversations (no apologies, but also no blame or insults) about things that had nothing to do about our situation.
6) Suddenly, I got a voicemail in which he's blaming me for their gossip and their treatment of him because someone in his family is stirring up trouble.
Since I'm not in touch with them and didn't make these accusations that they are now throwing around, how is it my fault? I get that the seed of it all came from the fallout of exposing, but that wouldn't even have happened if he hadn't struck up a smear campaign about me as part of his gas-lighting and blame-shifting in order to cover up his own actions; so, again, how is that my fault?
My instinct says I should reply and simply say that I didn't talk to the people in question and he ought to blame them and not me for their words, but I'm afraid that I'm taking the defensive apologetic position and assuming responsibility that isn't mine (enabling, etc). I am sympathetic to his pain, but I didn't cause it. He screwed up and he should deal with it and people shouldn't be exploiting his pain. However, he shouldn't be exploiting my sympathy to blame me, either, especially after he did the cheating (which he's still denying). In part, this seems like an opportunity to deal with the problem; he has brought it up, not me, so I'm not breaching the 180. I don't want to accept blame, but I don't want to seem like I don't care at all. I don't want to be manipulated, nor do I want to hide from dealing with things. What should I do?
I think that I would just ignore him.
However, if you feel the need to say something, say something like this;
"You caused the problems between us due to your behavior, not mine. This is your family that you are having problems with, not mine. You deal with it. I am done with you, your family and your problems."
Don't feel bad for what you did and tell him to suck it up.
He caused this and has to own up to it.
Thank you for sympathizing with me.
So, you think I should just tell him something like, "I didn't start any of this gossip and you should blame the person spreading the lie, rather than blame me. I feel bad that people are treating you badly, but it wasn't me that spread that rumor." ?
Does that seem defensive? Does it seem like I'm getting manipulated or accepting responsibility? Should I be expressing sympathy for what he's going through? I do feel bad about it, but I'm afraid that if I do that, it will seem like I'm accepting blame when the blame isn't mine.
DanF -- Does the above statement I wrote cover what you said, or should I actually remind him that it's his behavior that began this mess?
Ignore him moxy, the power you hold today is his inability to get a reaction from you. Think of him being in a room ranting at himself with no one to listen to his nonsense.
If some of his family are saying things against him that implies his lies are catching up with him. Posted via Mobile Device
So, you think I should just tell him something like, "I didn't start any of this gossip and you should blame the person spreading the lie, rather than blame me. I feel bad that people are treating you badly, but it wasn't me that spread that rumor." ?
Does that seem defensive? Does it seem like I'm getting manipulated or accepting responsibility? Should I be expressing sympathy for what he's going through? I do feel bad about it, but I'm afraid that if I do that, it will seem like I'm accepting blame when the blame isn't mine.
DanF -- Does the above statement I wrote cover what you said, or should I actually remind him that it's his behavior that began this mess?
Moxy,
I think that your statement to him shows concern. You advise him on who to blame for this. The blame is his.
You also show compassion by "feeling bad".
Your statement to me opens the door for more blameshifting and allowing his continuing problems to dropped at your feet.
I think my type of answer is neutral and leaves all the responsibility for solution in his hands, not yours.
I think he needs to be told in no uncertain terms that had he not had an affair, no one would be gossiping about him. We have to take responsibility for our choices and, if they are bad choices, accept that there is usually a price to pay. If we choose to damage a marriage, we're not just letting our partner down, but also our families. It might be more comfortable for him if everyone were to hush things up and pretend he's done nothing wrong, but that isn't the way things happen.
If he has a problem with his family, he needs to speak to them about it - not you. Please don't allow him to create a smoke-screen in order to extract one iota of sympathy from you. You're the injured party here, not him.
Ignore him moxy, the power you hold today is his inability to get a reaction from you. Think of him being in a room ranting at himself with no one to listen to his nonsense.
If some of his family are saying things against him that implies his lies are catching up with him. Posted via Mobile Device
He's having to face his demons; that's true and it's also necessary. I think I'm just feeling bad because certain people in his family are saying things that are viciously over the top and that I never accused him of, using our troubles to further their agenda against him. I feel bad because they're exploiting our problems to fuel that agenda and I don't know what that's going to do to him. So, my instinct says not to let him off the hook for his actual transgressions but also to clarify that I never made those claims b/c I don't want to be used by them in some campaign. Does it seem like I'm accepting blame to do that? I feel cruel ignoring entirely, but, I don't want to react instinctively and in a reactionary way and don't want to reply if it will just re-instigate the same cycle or be a doormat. He's got to own his own consequences, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF
Moxy,
I think that your statement to him shows concern. You advise him on who to blame for this. The blame is his.
You also show compassion by "feeling bad".
Your statement to me opens the door for more blame-shifting and allowing his continuing problems to dropped at your feet.
I think my type of answer is neutral and leaves all the responsibility for solution in his hands, not yours.
Is it wrong to show concern? I know it's wrong to take blame that isn't mine because that's enabling. I can see how the defensiveness of my response invites more blame-shifting.
I'm not resisting or opposing either of your perspectives, just asking and thinking about your answers. Thank you for being candid.
Your husband is neither remorseful or shown true intent to R. In your mind he is an alien in your husbands body. If you D you will not be friends and his goings on with his family are his problem. Leave it as such and let him deal with it.
He is a big boy, let him deal with his own issues.
That was my sense, too. This isn't uncommon for him. And he feels abandoned by me in the corner, too. I'm trying to remember that I didn't abandon him there, even though I was the one he screwed over, I still tried to work things out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmos
I think he needs to be told in no uncertain terms that had he not had an affair, no one would be gossiping about him.....It might be more comfortable for him if everyone were to hush things up and pretend he's done nothing wrong, but that isn't the way things happen....If he has a problem with his family, he needs to speak to them about it - not you. Please don't allow him to create a smoke-screen in order to extract one iota of sympathy from you. You're the injured party here, not him.
It makes sense for me to reinforce that he started it with his actions, not me by exposing. He just doesn't seem to accept that his actions led to this situation.
If his family were just giving him grief about what he actually did, I wouldn't feel conflicted. They are spicing it up to make claims about things that I never accused him of (some pretty outrageous things) and I don't want to be a party to that because it makes me feel used and exploited. Does that make sense, or am I just being a typical pushover?
I'm watching out for those smoke-screens. He's trying to make this my fault so it doesn't have to be his. I know it isn't my fault and I've stuck to my guns on it. At the same time, people putting words in my mouth that I never said and using it to harm him doesn't sit right with me either. Is that just part and parcel of the consequences? Is he messing with me to get sympathy? I feel confused. His family is so full of melodrama and I don't really want to have anything to do with them (except for one of h's sibling's family who is decent).
Eli-Zor -- this is true. Blame-shifting and gas-lighting is not remorse. He's been manipulative, but not remorseful (at least not in his actions).
"You let me down, you let your family down, you let yourself down. Can you see a common factor here? Did I let you down? No. Did I let your family down? No. I will not accept the responsibility for your faults and your issues.
"Do not try to offload the burden of your responsibilities on to my shoulders. And quit blaming your family. They are upset with you because YOU upset them!"
"You let me down, you let your family down, you let yourself down. Can you see a common factor here? Did I let you down? No. Did I let your family down? No. I will not accept the responsibility for your faults and your issues.
"Do not try to offload the burden of your responsibilities on to my shoulders. And quit blaming your family. They are upset with you because YOU upset them!"
The family also might have other sources of information that are not known to you.
He might be lying to you about what his family have said that you said. Why? To alienate you from them. Cheaters are devious.
That was my sense, too. This isn't uncommon for him. And he feels abandoned by me in the corner, too. I'm trying to remember that I didn't abandon him there, even though I was the one he screwed over, I still tried to work things out.
It makes sense for me to reinforce that he started it with his actions, not me by exposing. He just doesn't seem to accept that his actions led to this situation.
If his family were just giving him grief about what he actually did, I wouldn't feel conflicted. They are spicing it up to make claims about things that I never accused him of (some pretty outrageous things) and I don't want to be a party to that because it makes me feel used and exploited. Does that make sense, or am I just being a typical pushover?
I'm watching out for those smoke-screens. He's trying to make this my fault so it doesn't have to be his. I know it isn't my fault and I've stuck to my guns on it. At the same time, people putting words in my mouth that I never said and using it to harm him doesn't sit right with me either. Is that just part and parcel of the consequences? Is he messing with me to get sympathy? I feel confused. His family is so full of melodrama and I don't really want to have anything to do with them (except for one of h's sibling's family who is decent).
Moxy, as you said, he's probably feeling very cornered, but it's a corner he's placed himself in. You are not responsible for his family jumping on the bandwagon and using his infidelity as a means of furthering their own personal agendae against him; and, in reality, you have no power over their behaviour. It's my guess that this is a trait in his family that he's witnessed many times over the years, so is probably well aware that they're embellishing things for their own ends.
He's showed no remorse for what he's done, and you're dealing with your own pain right now. IMO, it isn't your job to make him feel better by getting involved in the bun fight between him and his family.
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