canttrustu

Yep. I wouldn't think that if my H had to walk into the bathroom after his AP had stomach 'issues' that it would have been too attractive. Or say if he had to hold her hair while she puked from the flu.....

Conversely, I dont know that his AP would have found him so chase worthy had she had to put up with his wicked ass family or had to clean the floor around the toilet b/c his 'aim' is off.

Now, that there's sexy, right???

Pit-of-my-stomach

I agree, in most if not all cases.. resentment has very little to do with the decision to have an affair....

They already know where they want to go, that decision was already made deep down in their brains. Resentment is just fuel to get there. I believe resentment is primarily 'constructed'. It's a means to enable the pursuit of a primal desire. Part of and nurtured in the rewriting of history stages. This anger is fuel to burn off guilt and plow through lingering moral boundries. Resentment acts as pre-cheat motivational speech. It's the self enabler.

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WhoIsIt

It seems from this thread that there is not one answer, which is about what you'd expect. Humans are all different, and while we can find trends and common behaviors, there's never just going to be one reason.

Messeduplady, your situation sounds really familiar to me. Scarily so, if it weren't gender-reversed.

My wife still says she isn't sure why she let things go as far as they did, except that the OM really stroked her ego and made her feel very special. She won't say this, but I'm sure he made her feel sexy and naughty in that "new boyfriend" sense.

An important point is that marriage problems don't cause affairs. I think of a strong marriage like a kind of armor. Someone with "game" will try to find chinks in the armor, and may succeed even if you think the marriage is fantastic. Really good players will create false chinks, making the WS believe things are worse than they are.

morituri

Yeah! She would be so hot for him when she saw the few Hershey's kisses he left on her toilet rim as a gift for her.

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"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." Robert A. Heinlein

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canttrustu

Oh yeah! You know it. I'll bet she'd set his email or his text on fire(like she did often) when she woke up to his morning breath or he woke her up with his farts....I'm telling you I know I cant resist when I get this side of him.

Or him having to put up with her kids whining and having to deal with her b*tching about the grass needing to be mowed and the trash needing to go out. Man, that would make him sooooo HOT!

Affaircare

I hope you don't mind but I would like to clarify something that does not answer the original post but I think does have to do with the topic at hand.

No I would not report a post for "disagreeing" with it. That would be unnecessary and pretty immature. However, for those who have not read them, here are Posting Guidelines - Forum Rules which anyone can find by looking in Talk About Marriage »About TalkAboutMarriage.com »Forum Guidelines (see there...near the bottom?)

The VERY FIRST posting guideline - forum rule is:

1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect.
Personal attacks, hate speech, racist or sexist statements or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated.

and number two is much like it:

2. You are responsible for anything you post on this website. We do not delete posts or accounts, but we give you the ability to delete your own posts at any time, unless you are banned from the website. See #14 for more information.

If a disloyal spouse were to come on here and suggest that it is a FACT--use the name of someone who is considered an "expert"--and say " ALL LOYALS are lazy, neglectful, controlling, abusive jerks " (remember this is hypothetical here), I would be willing to bet that people would be very upset and be up in arms! That's because if the person who came on and wrote that actually HAD a lazy, neglectful, controlling, abusive jerk of a loyal spouse...that doesn't mean ALL are! Further, it wasn't stated as an opinion or with any respect, but was stated as a FACT and with the supposed backing of an industry "expert". It's neither respectful (see guideline #1) nor is it taking responsibility for their own writing (see guideline #2).

Now I get it that what I did was indeed selfish. I am not now nor have I ever said it wasn't selfish. But do you want what's best for yourself? Do you look out for your own best-interests? Do you have some measure of self-esteem and self-worth? We are told over and over again "you deserve better" and "do what makes you happy"--so at some point I crossed from healthy self-interest and being my own person...to being self-centered. The question or issue is not "Is an affair selfish?" Of course it is! The question to ask a disloyal is "Looking back on it now, can you see the point (or a point or several points) where it crossed the line from being healthy self-interest to being dysfunctional selfishness? If so, what safeguards are you putting in place now to protect yourself from your own weaknesses? What can you and will you and do you do differently so that line is not crossed?"

See the difference folks? Saying all loyals are "this, that and the other thing" is disrespectful just the same as calling all disloyals are "this, that or the other thing." We can disagree all you like--I have no qualms about that whatsoever--but here's my issue: state is as your OPINION and maybe say something like "..many" or "most"--or "...in my experience, my disloyal did this" because then that does indicate "HEY I'm sharing what happened to me and you may get something out of it."

And meanwhile, why is everyone focusing on the fact that I considered reporting posts that disregarded posting guidelines - forum rules anyway? How about focusing on the part about "as you two work it out together and talk it through together, you may also figure it out together"? Or how about focusing on "...can you see the point where it crossed the line from being healthy self-interest to being dysfunctional selfishness?" THAT is the more meaty part worth discussing (IMHO)

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Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

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Affaircare

You're forgetting the hottest thing of all! The collector calls when the water is about to be turned off because he spent the money at the bar instead.

YEEEES BABEEE...YES!

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Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

Zanna

I still fail to see how saying that all cheaters are selfish is offensive (except to a cheater) or engaging in hate speech or a personal attack. Don't we all agree that cheating is selfish? It's like any other immoral behaviour, are we not going to judge it right or wrong?

During an A, the cheater is selfish. Perhaps prior, perhaps after, but perhaps not after as they all respond differently to exposure. But during, a cheater is always engaging in selfish behaviour, with little regard for their spouse. I don't understand how that goes against the forum rules. If it did, there are A LOT of posts that go against the forums rules. I've seen people called doormat, pu$$y, etc.


But you will not find an expert that will label all betrayed spouses because their behaviour prior to the cheating varies. Some betrayed spouses were neglectful but research also suggests that affairs happen in good marriages too. I believe Peggy Vaughn wrote extensively on that subject. But again, the behaviour of the spouse during the cheating is easily labelled selfish because one thing ALL affairs have in common is dishonesty and betrayal. No two ways around that fact.

As for the expert quoted in the other post you found offensive, that was Dr. Shirley Glass and she was highly respected and well-known in her field. She was also considered to be one of the world's experts in infidelity and her book is often recommended to couples dealing with infidelity (I myself own a copy). I don't see how quoting her words on a discussion board pertaining to the very subject she spent years studying can be deemed offensive (unless of course you are an ex or current disloyal and it strikes a nerve, I suppose).

Why of course people want what is best for themselves, but when their happiness comes at the expensive of others, it becomes selfish. So it still remains that ALL cheaters are selfish. I'm still failing to see how this doesn't just further confirm what some of us have been suggesting

So yes, while agree with what you wrote in the paragraph above, it actually seems to illustrate the fact that cheaters are selfish. And of course, the cheater can change and of course, they can learn from their mistakes, if they so choose. Absolutely. No argument there.





I do see the difference and still maintain that while cheating, they are all selfish. I've read that in every single book I've read on infidelity at this point, so it's not exactly that far-fetched of a statement.

I don't think we were focusing on that fact only as I believe I responded to your other points earlier as well. The question was merely asked and pondered because it seemed quite puzzling that on a board full of betrayed spouses, that it was suggested we were not permitted to call our cheating spouses all selfish! Good luck with that, I say. That was the tamest of words I called him on D-day and I'm sure I used words he never heard me use before!

Anyway, I do find most of your posts well-thought out and informative and I enjoy reading them. However, I do disagree with you on this issue, it seems.

hunter411

I can only comment from my recent experience. I think there were several factors. Her depression, hormonal changes, the fog, and my lack of enforcing boundaries. Ultimately, I blame her decision for doing it. As far as our marriage, almost 0 problems. No marriage is safe without solid boundaries and communication.

messeduplady

As always on here; thanks for all the comments and viewpoints. It really does help clear up the thought processes in my head and shows me that I'm not losing it completely. And as was said in an earlier post - maybe the answer is that there isn't an answer?!!

Pit-of-my-stomach

There is an answer or answers, but the ambiguity of them makes the search for understanding "why" very frustrating and ultimately an exercise in self defeating mental mastrabation.

In short, absolutely. Every person has a reason they cheat. The reason is... THEY WANT TO. Everything else, is a matter of finding a good rationalization or justification to allow themselves.

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Never say Never- The Fog
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Sara8

Stating a personal opinion that all cheaters are selfish is far from disrespectful and was not a personal attack.

Was your post a personal attack over semantics? You state in your own post an affair is selfish. I am confused by the word play.

If I were posting on the reconciliation board I would agree that my post was out of place. I was not. I was posting on the infidelity forum and you as a counselor should understand we are all raw here. We do not need to be attacked by someone who may be struggling with their own infidelity issues.

Pit-of-my-stomach

I love it when people lob softballs...

Healthy self-interest = Get Divorced, then pursue relationship.

Dysfunctional selfishness = Pursue relationship (Affair), then Get divorced (maybe?, maybe not?)

There's the line.... It's what comes before and after the word then.

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Never say Never- The Fog
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