"In every single successful marriage, there are numerous points where one was being woefully inadequate,and the other continued to love despite inadequacies".
Yeah. In a successful marriage. But I think this couple is an example of an unsuccessful marriage. So if they didn't follow the rule of a successful marriage and their marriage was unsuccessful, I think it shows that what I stressed earlier is sound.
Yeah. In a successful marriage. But I think this couple is an example of an unsuccessful marriage. So if they didn't follow the rule of a successful marriage and their marriage was unsuccessful, I think it shows that what I stressed earlier is sound.
I think you completely copped out here.
First you assert that love doesn't die unless one personally allows it to, then you propose that in every successful marriage a spouse remains in love with other even though one may be woefully inadequate. I then challenge the logic of this argument with evidence of the OP, then you completely contradict yourself and concede the dynamic of your argument leads to an unsuccessful marriage, finally you suppose their marriage isn't "successful" because they didn't follow a rule which you yourself found to be contradictory......
First you assert that love doesn't die unless one personally allows it to, then you propose that in every successful marriage a spouse remains in love with other even though one may be woefully inadequate. I then challenge the logic of this argument with evidence of the OP, then you completely contradict yourself and concede the dynamic of your argument leads to an unsuccessful marriage, finally you suppose their marriage isn't "successful" because they didn't follow a rule which you yourself found to be contradictory......
No. I'm saying that the failure to adhere to the rule contributed to the downfall of the marriage. I didn't contradict myself. The evidence you gave to challenge doesn't work because the example you gave is not an example of a successful marriage. I don't know how much plainer I can make it. Nowhere did I concede that the dynamic of my argument leads to an unsuccessful marriage. Please read what I wrote again.
No. I'm saying that the failure to adhere to the rule contributed to the downfall of the marriage. I didn't contradict myself. The evidence you gave to challenge doesn't work because the example you gave is not an example of a successful marriage. I don't know how much plainer I can make it. Nowhere did I concede that the dynamic of my argument leads to an unsuccessful marriage. Please read what I wrote again.
Sigh, I should taken your advice earlier that nothing will change your mind even when you end up contradicting your own arguments.
Sigh, I should taken your advice earlier that nothing will change your mind even when you end up contradicting your own arguments.
This is pointless anyway.
Sorry OP for the threadjack.
I'm not contradicting myself. This is what I said.
1) Your ability to love is determined by your own personal being, not someone else's. Meaning that if I one day decide that I no longer love my spouse, it is because of me, not her.
2) In every marriage, there are points in time when one spouse is failing in their duties as a spouse. The difference between a marriage that survives and a marriage that doesn't is whether or not the other spouse chooses to continue to love. If the spouse decides "Well they're not fulfilling their duties to me, I don't need to fulfill mine either", the marriage is destined to fail, by virtue of the fact that both spouses are human, and will make mistakes from time to time.
3) These two people are a prime example of what I have just detailed. One spouse (the husband) was neglecting the other (the wife). Rather than continuing to love, the wronged spouse (the wife) interpreted the neglect as validation for wrongdoing of her own.
There is no contradiction. There is nothing difficult to understand about this. You can disagree with it, but you can't say it's not logical.
Stop throwing your freaking pity party for yourself and take some freaking responsibility for your actions!!!
If you read her post it looks like she's describing how she got there. I don't think she's justifying it. It sounds like she's pleading guilty to the affair, but stating what she believe may be mitigating circumstances.
I believe her case is different in a milder sense, than a woman with a good home, and loving and adoring husband who decides, "hey, I think I'll sleep with my hot new neighbor next time hubby's out of town." I just don't believe that "one size fits all" when judging the penalty inflicted for this offense.
Your wife is extremely naive. AR's odds 1 in 1000 are the odds the OM ever wanted anything more than to poke your wife. Her picture on his mantle, well I'll give him one thing, he is smooth.
Her picture on his mantle. A few minutes before she arrives?
EI looked for the OM. Before Facebook, all she could do was think about the OM, dream of how it might have been and wonder.
Now with the advent of Facebook there's no more "What if?" There's now: "Let's make it happen!" old flames can be rekindled! Old loves re-lived!
Is it possible that EI sort of checked out of their marriage very early on? That, subconsciously, even, she dreamt of the OM throughout her entire marriage?
That it became clear to B1 that she was thinking of the OM, even whilst he and EI were together?
If it were to become clear that your spouse really was not fully committed to you and was thinking of someone else, might that not make someone feel cold or distant toward them?
If you read her post it looks like she's describing how she got there. I don't think she's justifying it. It sounds like she's pleading guilty to the affair, but stating what she believe may be mitigating circumstances.
I believe her case is different in a milder sense, than a woman with a good home, and loving and adoring husband who decides, "hey, I think I'll sleep with my hot new neighbor next time hubby's out of town." I just don't believe that "one size fits all" when judging the penalty inflicted for this offense.
I get that, some people have horrible marriages. I was responding to the specific quote that being a neglicted spouse is worse than being cheated on. Been there, done both, cheating is worse. That was a pity party, justification statement. Everytime the BS hears something like this, it wipes out a million good things the WS said. If she wants any chance of R, she's got to cut that stuff out now.
This thread has gone off the rails. The two antagonists are going to MC, I assume to see if they can stay married. That is the question. Help them out with that.
I would suggest IC for both, sex counseling for both since husband has only two moves(on and off). MC for both. If the husband can get over his lifestyle that he has fell into and wife can love the new man he has become there is hope for this 27 yr marriage.
Both can endlessly point their finger at the other. Offer up some ideas, books financial advice etc., and quit what has beome a total thread jack since the first page.
In other words help some people in need by doing a good deed. Forget what you think they need and give them what they think they need.
Reading all of this, one thing comes to mind: "Actions Speak Louder Than Words".
I get that you were in a bad place. Your marriage was not fulfilling. Your family responsibilities were crushing you. You felt like you wanted to die.
What did you do? You took action. (This is a good thing.) You improved your physical condition. You went to counseling and worked on your emotional state. You took action to make yourself healthier and you got results.
Now, after working on yourself, you saw much more clearly what was lacking in your marriage. How did you approach it at first? With words and words only. (You told your husband that you were going to look for passion outside the marriage. Added onto the years of you telling him what was lacking, did you really think this would be effective?).
When you finally did take action, you chose a course that was absolute poison to your marriage. It may have been good for you, but it really sucked for your husband and family. Why, I wonder, didn't you choose a different course of action?
Why didn't you do something like this: move out of the house or kick your husband out of the house? You could have told him that he has 3 months (or 6 or whatever) to get his sh*t together and give you what he needs or you're going to make this separation permanent and divorce him. Then, you make it stick. You could have kept him cut out of your life and shown him what life without you is like. It would have been harsh, it would have been difficult - but it would also have been honest and true. You should have waited to find passion with another man until this had run its course. Following this path would have given the two of you a chance to come back to a marriage that was not poisoned by your 18 month affair.
Now, you're probably thinking, "No, that would not have been possible because of X, Y or Z." I say "baloney". You could have and should have found a way. Move him into the basement. Pitch a tent in the backyard. Borrow a friend's camper for a month. Sure, the neighbors might have talked - but "f" the neighbors. This was your marriage you were trying to save.
So, back to "Actions Speak Louder Than Words." You chose a course of action that was all about you. Me. Me. Me. Me. "I need love and passion, I am going to get it - no matter what the cost."
I was going to ask whether or not you've decided to try and stay and work on the marriage. I don't need to. Your actions already have given me the answer.
Since you are in financial difficulties, seek out help from local agenices. I know in KY there are many sources of help from the state and churches, there may also be others. I know counseling can be expensive and the burdens on your family are many.
OP this is obviously your last chance, don't let inertia and laziness be your undoing any longer.
personally I think giving CPR to a corpse is a waste of energy
and to add to the debate- I have no doubts that hubby contributed much to the demise of the marriage and maybe the marriage couldn't have even been saved prior to the affair. But to me, the long term affair basically destroyed almost every chance.
This thread has gone off the rails. The two antagonists are going to MC, I assume to see if they can stay married. That is the question. Help them out with that.
I would suggest IC for both, sex counseling for both since husband has only two moves(on and off). MC for both. If the husband can get over his lifestyle that he has fell into and wife can love the new man he has become there is hope for this 27 yr marriage.
Both can endlessly point their finger at the other. Offer up some ideas, books financial advice etc., and quit what has beome a total thread jack since the first page.
In other words help some people in need by doing a good deed. Forget what you think they need and give them what they think they need.
chap, you know I am very pro-R. And I will support your point and position.
How can I explain to OM that I will never see her again? WS asked. The answer to that question is an extremely important part of the plan to separate. WS needed to end the relationship in a way that would make their separation complete. And she also needed to do it in a way that would be least offensive to BS.
But WS's instincts would not have led her to the correct procedure. If left to her own devices, she would have taken OM on a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. At the very least, she would have wanted to take him to a secluded spot and discuss the pros and cons of their future together. From WS's perspective, she would want to let him down gently, and end the relationship with care and concern for his future. After all, she had encouraged him to love her, and now she felt she had no right to abandon him with no warning. Besides, she wasn't just in love with him, she cared about him, too. He was her best friend.
The approach WS would have used to end the relationship not only would have been very offensive to BS, but probaly would have failed. I've witnessed these "final" good-byes and there's nothing final about them. All they do is leave the wayward spouse and the lover even more convinced that they belong with each other.
From BS's perspective (and mine), OM was the worst enemy of WS's and BS's marriage. He stood in the way of their happiness and the happiness of their children. BS did not want WS to "let OM down gently."
I recommended to WS that she write OM the final good-bye in a letter....
and as regular readers of this forum know too well, the letter is to be written in the format we discuss all the time on the forum.
The NC letter seems to be a big sticking point in moving on. Maybe in some situations we could gloss over the format or conveniently ignore that one wasn't sent. This does not appear to be one of those times.
As our wise MC has said, No Contact letters provide ending rituals. We can see how extremely resistant the WS in this situation is to sending the letter. One can only ask why--but we all know the answer.
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Re: Wife's affair, how to move forward? 
o
