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Needy female friend- is this emotional infidelity?

46K views 260 replies 60 participants last post by  turnera 
#1 ·
My husband and I dated for 5 years and have been married for 2. I trust him not to cheat on me sexually, but I wonder about his attachment to his friend.

My husband and this woman have been friends for 18 years. His closeness with her has made me uncomfortable from the start. Back when we were dating, he would have her over for "movie night" and they would watch movies in his closed bedroom all night long. I questioned their relationship back then, but he was never secretive about it and other friends would corroborate that there was nothing between them physically.

She's kind of a "guy's girl" - primarily has male friends, loves to go out drinking, burps, farts, etc in public without shame. She's smart, funny, and outgoing. I tried to maintain a friendship with her because she is important to my husband. After my first issues were resolved, I got over my concerns and accepted her as just another of my husband's many friends.

HOWEVER, since around the time my husband and I got married (2 years ago), she has been extremely needy and demanding of his time. We moved to a neighboring state, but live about 4 hours from her so visits aren't impossible. She has a common law husband that she been with for years, she has a large family and many friends local to her yet she calls my husband at all hours of the night and day for his help dealing with her problems.

He has been pretty good about more or less avoiding her calls, emails, texts, facebook messages, etc because he doesn't seem to like being smothered by her. But she keeps upping the stakes and finding ways to make him feel compelled to go see her. She's always relied on him to be her hero and I never had any jealousy or resentment, just a mild irritation that she doesn't find someone else to hold her hand through life's many hiccups.

I am currently seven months pregnant with our first child. I am no longer comfortable with my husband leaving me for days at a time to help his friend deal with her every day life. I haven't once said "you can't see her" or "it's her or me" or anything along those lines. But when she called him crying and demanding he go up there right away and he agreed to go up there. Since her reasons for needing him are becoming increasingly far-fetched (she think she has a brain tumor and her house was robbed but there is no police report, etc), I asked that my husband stop staying with her. Her "lover" (common law husband) is out of town and it would be the two of them alone all weekend. I don't think there is a sexual component in all of this, I think she is freaking out that her back up man and best male friend is now happily married and starting a family. But I also don't think it's fair that he stays with her and tends to her all night and day while he's in town. He used to stay with family, now he stays with this friend.

The level of "crazy" she has reached is really upsetting to me. She has started messaging me to get him to respond to her faster. "Tell him he HAS TO CALL ME, it's an emergency" or "I know your there, tell him to call me!" etc. I addressed it with my husband and expressed that I trust them not to be sexually intimate, but that he needs to talk to her about this. He agrees that once the baby is here she can't be doing this, but he also insists that staying with her is no big deal because her house is really comfortable and closer to town than his other housing options when he goes up there.

What it has come down to is the fact that he promised not to stay in her house this weekend when he goes up there again. He promised to stay with his mother who is very much looking forward to seeing him. But then I heard him on the phone telling his friend to "get the guest room ready for him" and making plans. I confronted him and he tried to make me feel silly for worrying. At this point, is the fact that he is choosing his own laziness (wanting a nicer room to bunk in) and her needs for his attentions over the simple request of his concerned wife grounds for claiming emotional infidelity?

I don't know what this will do to our relationship if he lies to me and stays with her anyway. I have told him so. I don't know what else to do. I feel like he gets a huge ego boost being the man she calls on despite her having many other options that are much closer. He's always liked being the hero and he always will. But with this particular friend, I am extremely uncomfortable. It's creating a lot of negative tension and he won't make any effort to do anything about it. Right down to telling me what I want to hear and planning to do what he wants anyway. To me, that feels like cheating.
 
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#73 ·
ASF, when I first learned of what was going on with my husband and the OW, I said "I don't want to lose you." He assured me that I wouldn't. When I saw more suggestive texting, I still didn't put my foot down. I merely said "no sexual talking of any kind", and he was agreeable. But the more I thought about it, the more it bothered me. I jumped every time he got a text. I felt miserable, sick to my stomach, you name it. It was a few days later when I said "her or me". He picked me.

The thing you need to stress to him is that he chose to marry you. You voiced concern about her incessant neediness over and over... I assume even before you married, right? You need to have the "her or me" talk with him. Remind him that he chose YOU to be his wife, best friend, partner FOR LIFE. If he tries to play the "I guess I can't have any friends" bull****, call him on it and tell him, "no, you can have friends... just not THAT friend." And, if he sees her, make sure he knows BEFOREHAND what the consequences will be (i.e. You will leave/divorce him). Don't back down, and don't let this continue.
 
#74 ·
I lose. A swing and a miss.

He won't go to counseling. He won't drop his friend. He still says I'm the one with the problem.

He wants the three of us to sit down and talk. He says that her advice over the years about our relationship has been what has kept him trying. He says that if I make him drop this one friend, then next time it will be another friend and then another.

He again keeps focusing on how it's not sexual - "she has no figure" "your boobs are bigger" etc like he isn't hearing me at all.

He insists that I am first on his list. But he is first on hers. He doesn't believe that, naturally. She doesn't have time to reach out to other people if she's calling him morning, noon and night. He won't even take a break from his friendship.

I am pathetic. I am desperate not to lose the father of my child over this.

I asked that he not call her and include her in plans when he goes home- he refused.

I asked that he tell her she needs to back off and stop calling him with her problems- he wants to be available for her if she's in trouble.

I asked that he not be alone with her in any circumstance- he argued that it was stupid that he should need a chaperone.

They apparently haven't spoken in several days. He said I "frightened her" when I spoke to her on the phone. He was right there. I was crying over my crumbling marriage and asked her to find another support system. When she tried to offer marital advice I said "I'm not comfortable having this conversation" and got off the phone. I didn't threaten her. I didn't call her names. I just blubbered for 4 minutes like a fool.

But yeah, I'm the bad guy here. I asked my husband to take a break from his friend after she finally crossed the line. I had asked him for months to tell her not to call in the middle of the night. I have asked him for months to tell her to find help closer to home. She crossed the line when she started lying and crying to him. She crossed the line when she started coming after me with "I know your there, tell him to call me!" when he didn't respond right away.

My husband won't give up his friend. He claims innocence, says I'm the most important person in the world, cried when I said I can't just accept it.
 
#75 ·
I am so sorry. I do feel your pain. It hurts to see you so tormented by this OW (and she IS the OW - make no mistake about it). It just isn't fair to you, because now you have a big decision to make. Fold or Fight. It sadly is that simple. To Fold would be that you suck it up and accept it, and it certainly doesn't appear that this is the best solution for you or your marriage. The other option is to Fight, which means that you have to bring out the "big guns" to protect your marriage. Your H is unwilling (so far) to do this for you.

The "Big Guns" simply means that it's her or you. No compromise. If he wants to continue the friendship with her, he must leave you. You will accept nothing less. He either leaves the marital home to think about it, or you do. There is no room for her, especially once the baby is born.

As to her "common law husband" that you mentioned in your first post. What is his position on this? Is he aware of how much she depends on your H and how much it hurts you? Is it possible that he could add some input into this to keep his "wife" away from you H?

You "frightened" her? Apparently not enough to turn her into a big girl and stop calling your H. This EA runs deep. Way too deep. It's all or nothing. You are his wife. You are having his child. You want it over. You want your H to yourself. She is not family, never was, and never will be. Your H needs a new project, and not this piece of work.

I wish there was a magical way to "poof" her out of your life, but there is not. Your H won't do this for you, which leaves the only alternative in your court. You have the full support of strangers here, who would not tolerate such a person involved in our own marriages. I sincerely hope that you find the strength to act to save your marriage. I fear that if you "fold", this will get much, much worse.
 
#76 ·
I appreciate all the input and advice more than I can express in words.

Since posting a couple of hours ago, he has gone to Home Depot and bought supplies for a project he was going to do for me 6 months ago. He's working on it now. He says he just wants me to be happy. He says he'll cut all ties with the OW and mentioned a couple other things that make me miserable that he wouldn't change. Silly little things, but they add up and one big thing that should have made me walk out the door over 2 years ago.

I asked if he could really promise those things and still move forward without resentment. He said he would try.

I don't know at this point how much of what he said is sincere and how much of it is him trying to fix it quick before I pack my bags.

If he finishes this project - he's known for starting things and giving up after about 2 hours - I will believe he means to try in other areas as well. If he gets flustered and throws in the towel or takes a 6 hour video game break, I will assume he was trying to win my affections with a valiant display of puffery.

If he keeps to his word, it will still a long time for me to trust him again in certain areas. I know he's expecting him to promise the moon and the stars and have me swoon at his oaths of loyalty and affection, but I simply can't just forgive and forget after such a nightmare. We'll see.
 
#79 ·
I will gladly keep you guys posted on the baby! I'm due mid-September and I'm getting bigger everyday. :) Thanks again for all your help and advice!

The OW texted my husband twice over the weekend. She was supposed to be out of town and we were supposed to go up and visit his mother and other friends. The OW apparently got home early if she left at all and immediately contacted my husband to try to see him. He didn't reply as far as I can tell. We ended up staying home anyway so she wouldn't have gotten to see him regardless.

My husband spent all weekend working on his project. I eventually joined him and we did a lot of work together. I'm weak and awkward these days (pregnant and 105 degrees, it's a wonder I survived!) and he made me rest a lot, but it was a great team building exercise and we got a lot accomplished. As long as he really does cut ties with the other woman, I think we can move forward. It will take a LOT of time and I will probably be insecure about this for months, but I'm willing to work towards trusting that this issue is resolved.

If it comes up again in any way, shape or form I'm out. I am going to go to therapy on my own as my husband still refuses couples counseling. I decided to give it until the new year to make any huge decisions unless there is a major issue in the next few months. I will give therapy a try and I will give my husband time to prove himself and keep his word. I will also see what parenthood does for us. Maybe having a child to tend to will help him realize that there just isn't room for a constantly needy "friend" when his family is looking to him to be there. Or maybe he'll run screaming into the OW's arms, but I don't feel that will be the case. Regardless, New Years is my time frame to see if this will work out for us.

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom, experience and advice! I hope I can report back that we are a happy, healthy family soon!! :)
 
#80 ·
I'm looking forward to the good news! :D

Sounds like your H just may have potential! It's good to learn that he is doing things around the home, with you, as a family. Do men go through a "nesting" phase? Anyway, it could be that he's a bit of a stubborn sort. Won't do what you want, but will consider your wishes and decide for himself (saving face). You could be winning here without even knowing it (yet).

I have a feeling that if this trend continues, she will be history (at least I hope so).

I'm looking forward to hearing if he continues to "nest" with you and pushes this OW to the back of the line.
 
#81 ·
Well, time for an update.

Good news first- I'm due in 7 weeks and the baby is ready to go! Head down, a good weight/size and active all the time. It's so close I'm getting scared because if Braxton-Hicks are any indicator, labor is going to be mighty unpleasant. ;)

The bad news is that my husband and his friend have reached out to each other. Both had promised not to be in communication with each without me being present. I guess they assumed I would want to have a pow-wow of some kind, but I don't. I'm trying to focus on the baby, I'm in therapy (marriage counseling) by myself because my husband refuses to go and I'm trying to work through all the issues that this "other woman" situation has caused.

So no, I didn't want to all three of us talk it out anytime soon. I noticed about 10 days ago that my husband "liked" a post on her Facebook page. It was such a tiny thing that I more or less ignored it, but I noticed. Then, on the 25th she called him. He missed the call and she left a very brief message that he has ignored so far- I didn't listen to it, because he would see that I had done so when the little message flag went away. I occasionally check in on his activity online and on his phone. So she called, but he ignored it, which is as good as I can expect.


HOWEVER, he is going home this weekend for a friend's wedding. He was excited for the opportunity to see friends since he hasn't been up there since this whole thing started. I am not going. For many reasons. Primarily because I can't police him forever and also being this pregnant makes it REALLY difficult to travel. It turns out that the day it was decided he was going up there alone, he contacted 7 friends telling them he was going to be in town and wanted to see who would be available to hang out. One of the 7 was the other woman. He included her in the invitation just like nothing had ever happened.

In less than one month's time he has decided for himself that despite everything that's happened, he should still get to do what he wants. I'm sure he'll rationalize it that she'll just be part of the group and it won't be just the two of them, but that's not how I see it. He contacted her behind my back so he knows that I won't approve. He doesn't want to get in trouble, but he wants to do what he wants to do even though I'm literally in therapy over it. Even though I've told him that if her friendships means that much to him, I can't stay.

I had decided to give our marriage until the first of the year to make any major decisions. Part of me knew he would make it a point to see her when he could, but I can't say that I've accepted it. I just knew it was inevitable. To contact her to hang out at his very first opportunity was pretty depressing to say the least. My sister is going to trail him this weekend. As silly as that might sound, I decided that if he spends a lot of time alone with her and/or spends the night as her house (the singular request I made initially that started this whole thing off), then I will be moving home to have my baby with my family. I will declare a trial separation. He's welcome to be a part of the baby stuff, but I can't just stay in this house with a man that cares absolutely nothing about me if it isn't convenient to him.

I just upped my therapy sessions to twice a week.
 
#82 ·
#84 ·
:iagree:

This ^^^^^

I was thinking of the OP while reading this other thread. So familiar, and we can actually read the results of the "friendship" in regards to this other story. Turns out that the "friend" (in that case) wants more than a friendship, and the "gf" (in that case) was correct and her instincts were sound. The OP (in that case) had no idea until "it" hit the fan.

So yes, OP, I believe that your instincts are sound and that sadly you may have to do something extreme to wake your H up, since increasing your counseling sessions isn't alerting him to your very real concerns. I'm glad to know that you do have a support system in place, and that you and the pregnancy are doing well.

We are still here for you.
 
#83 ·
Hes having a huge emotional affair and the biggest symptom of an emotional affair is the denial one is having an emotional affair.

A marriage is a union between 2 people, not 3. You should not be coming in 2nd place to your husband in priority.

She has no business in your marriage, relying on the father of you soon-to-be-born child as a pseudo husband.

He needs counseling, BADLY.

He'll attempt to appease you and apologize when he messes up but if he doesn't understand why its a problem he is only going to keep doing it again and again and again because in his mind its just you fussing over nothing.

Put your foot down and get him to come in to counseling because hes not gonna see whats wrong with what hes doing unless someone other than you is telling him.

He might just be thinking it's you being pregnant and having mood swings that will pass.(which is why he waited for it to 'blow over' and contacted OW a month later)

If you can, have him read this thread because it seems like hes unknowingly trying to flush his marriage down the toiler because of his friend.

^ Also that thread above is very similar to your situation. Guy didn't want to leave his friend that was a girl. It made his wife feel terrible and insecure and then they broke up. As soon as he told his friend about the break up his 'just a friend' instantly wanted a relationship with him.

Don't wait for this to happen, quash it now!
 
#86 ·
All along he seems to have zero comprehension or acceptance of any wrongdoing on his part.

When I first tried to put my foot down and he took his communications with her underground, he did express the sentiment that pregnancy and hormones are to blame. He wanted to keep their communication discreet until I had a chance to "cool off." The fact that I have expressed a passing distaste for their close friendship for years was never acknowledged.

He can only see this as my problem, not his. He feels justified in his maintaining the friendship and has told me to my face that there is nothing I can do about it.

He refuses counseling completely and without compromise. He is utterly convinced that my only goal is to change him as a human being. He can't accept that the therapy is for both of us and our marriage. Our communication skills are lacking and it leads to unhappiness. I never expressed any desire to change him, I just want him to meet me in the middle on the little stuff and to hear my side of things without taking it as an attack on the more important things.

He gives as much as he feels he should. He punishes me when I have misbehave. He recently cut off the AC without a word. He never touches the AC so I thought something was wrong with me when I felt sick as a result. Fevers and pregnancy are a VERY bad combination so I was scared and took my temperature and prepared to call the OB. He went to work feigning concern over my discomfort. He didn't acknowledge that he had done anything wrong and he claimed he felt just fine when I asked if he was feeling too hot. I actually spent a big part of the day in bed with the fan on me and a cloth on my forehead. I eventually checked the thermostat and found the AC turned off and then temperature in the house was 85. At 8 months pregnant, I am uncomfortably warm when the temps are at 70, so 85 was absolutely sweltering. I offhandedly mentioned it a couple days later. He said he did that because my sister (who was in town visiting) was too cold. Which is really funny, because this happened before she arrived. He got the timing wrong on his lie.

I never laid down the law with him because I always assumed I could. I thought he respected me and that I could say "enough is enough" at any time if a line was truly crossed. When the line was crossed back in June and I put a SINGLE LIMIT on his freedom for the first time (I asked that he please not stay at her house when he goes home to visit friends), he became furious and refused without hesitation. That was the eye opening moment in all of this for me. I thought I had some say in things so I waited far too long to assert myself.

The whole thing is a mess and I wish so badly that he would choose me. But the trust is gone. It's pretty likely I will be leaving him and having my baby at home with my family. The only response I have gotten when I told him that he would simply have to choose his family or his friend was threats to fight for the baby. I would never keep him from his child and it was hurtful that his response to my plea was a threat to take me to court.

I imagine we will formally separate and he will then MAYBE acknowledge that he can't just have his way without consequence. He will have to agree to counseling and probably to just stop going on trips home by himself altogether if he wants to keep his family. He honestly doesn't see anything wrong with what he is doing and he lashes out against me when I defy his will.
 
#87 ·
Thanks for the continued support. I did read the thread about the girlfriend who didn't like the "friend" and the results that followed.

The way it started out sounds so much like my husband that I cried. He honestly doesn't understand why he can't have it both ways.

The last thing I want to do is leave him when he doesn't understand why. He thinks I'm jealous, insecure and hormonal. He doesn't understand that I'm his wife and his partner. I should have a say in what he does if I feel it's a threat to our marriage. But since he disagrees that it's anything more than friendship, he feels entitled to carry on however he pleases.

I spoke to the friend after they continued to communicate in secret. I put it out there that she cannot be a part of our lives right now. Naturally she feigned confusion and innocence saying how she had no idea I felt that way. She claimed she didn't want to be a "home wrecker" (her words) and volunteered to cease all communication with my husband unless I was personally involved in the conversation as well. Three weeks later, she called him. Not a shocker by any stretch, but at least I can say I tried. She can never again say she had no idea how I felt. She can never play the victim in any of this. She's officially an active participant.

To find out after investing 7 years in a relationship that your feelings never really mattered is a huge blow. So many other issues have arisen as a result of all this that it's almost comical. The timing is just terrible. I am not really surprised that he's making an effort to include his friend in this weekends' plans, but it hurts more than I thought it would to have my suspicions confirmed. He couldn't even wait until after his child was born. He took the first possible opportunity to reach out to her. And yet he still doesn't see how this might end his marriage.

So, I will sit at home this weekend pregnant and alone. He will go see his friends and have a great time. My sister will check in on him secretly and drive past the friend's house to see if his car is there. My family is on standby to drive down and help move me home next week if need be. I wanted to give us a shot as a family until New Years, but I can't live like this. Even if he doesn't see her this weekend, the fact that he tried makes me want to walk out now. I don't know.

I know I will leave next week for a trial separation if he stays at her place. But anything short of that, I just don't know. I wonder if he will take her to the wedding. I wonder if they will have a meal just the two of them. I'm sure they will want to talk about me and the situation at hand. Sucks to be me but at least now I can start making decisions for myself without worrying about his feelings.
 
#88 ·
Please do think of yourself first here, and not him. Thats easy for me to say and very hard for you to do - I know as I'm going through a different but similar situation.

You have needs that you've expressed that aren't being met. You need to decide which of those needs have to be met and which are deal breakers for you. If he is seeing her and that was a dealbreaker for you - you should follow through and go for your own mental sanity. Lean on your family and friends who are showing you the concern you need. Stop allowing your happiness to be tied to his actions - or at least try to start..I'm still working on that one a lot myself.
 
#89 ·
Honey, I do not have any advice, but just wanted to say that I am so sorry for this entire situation that you are going through. This should be one of the happiest times of your life. You should not have all this stress and heartache anytime, but during your pregnancy, especially your first, is just horrible. Your husband is an immature ass and the OW is dispicable. She can't be much of a human being if, after you stated your concerns to her, ignores your requests to stay out of your marriage. Speaks volumes for her integrity. I hope your husband wakes up and acknowledges and rectifies his mistakes. Astonefeather, I sincerely pray that everything does work out for you. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
 
#90 ·
This thread makes me mad every time I read it.

Astone, I'm so very, very sorry. The other woman is a rotten person and it seems that your hubby isn't much better. I can only hope that he is SO deluded by the fog that you can shock him out of it; that somehow this isn't his true character on display.

It seems that you've done everything you reasonably can, save leave.

Please remember that, come what may, you have untapped resevoirs of strength. You are stronger than you know, and you'll get thru this, with or without him.
 
#93 ·
My husband leaves tomorrow for his trip back home. He has contacted several people trying to make plans to see as many of them as possible. He has called and texted the OW, in addition to his Facebook message to her on 7/28, in attempts to see her sometime this weekend.

Naturally, when we speak about the trip, her name hasn't come up once. Which only serves as a reminder that he doesn't care about my feelings at all. I truly believe that he doesn't see anything wrong with seeing her, but he also knows he will be "in trouble" if he gets caught going against my wishes. I think he sees me as "Mean Mommy" these days.

It's so very frustrating. Especially when I already see his rationale if he gets caught.

1) If he stays at her house= "I was drunk and couldn't drive" or "her husband was there"
2) If he spends time alone with her= "She was the only person available for lunch"
3) If he spends time out and about with her with other friends= "We weren't alone, there were a bunch of people hanging out!"

Basically, anything short of blatant sexual activity is not cheating in his mind and my "irrational jealousy" and pregnancy related hormones are to blame according to him.

I never put my foot down on his relationship with this woman because I always thought I could if I needed to. The fact that I just now discovered that I never had a leg to stand on is what hurts the most. He doesn't respect me, he never has.
 
#94 ·
So, according to your H, the only purpose you serve in his life is to meet his sexual needs? And this OW, she is there for companionship and friendship; something that is not part of your role as his wife? Is that how he sees things? I am so sorry that he still doesn't see what is right in front of him, a loving wife. Shame on him.

1. If he stayed at his own home with you, this would not be an issue.

2. If he had lunch alone, that would be a problem? When you are not with him, does he really need another person for company?

3. "A bunch of people hanging out" - has he grown up yet?

I know I'm preaching to the choir as it is painfully obvious that you get it. As for solutions, I believe that you mentioned earlier about staying with your family or, in other words, leaving the home. Perhaps if he actually came to realize just how much he stands to lose in keeping this OW around, he might finally "get it". He is obviously emotionally involved with this OW, and she knows it and doesn't care. He can't really be that dense can he?

I suppose that sometimes you just have to draw the line in the sand and that he must face real consequences in order to actually see what this is doing to your marriage. You've told him. He's not listening. It may be time to take action, however the baby and your well being come first, so please take care of yourself first. I believe that, once you have taken a hard line, he will choose you but unfortunately you have to be the "grown up" and teach him that certain lines should not ever be crossed.

I hope you find some comfort in knowing that you are not wrong and it isn't the hormones responding to all of this. This OW is coming in between you and your H and he is refusing to see it. He is being selfish and immature and stubborn, but is it worth it to him to lose you over it? Is he willing to take that gamble? Perhaps you need to find out.
 
#96 ·

Hello,

I am surprised your counselor did not suggest a written explanation to him of the underlying factors in this situation.

As you mentioned he is likely clueless as to what you and the OW are doing and why.

Whenever you discussed this with him even if you made an effort to be calm the negative energy you have came out and he felt it like an attack. Now he does not know a lot about women's nature so not understanding what's going on he rationalizes it as hormones. Furthermore he feels it as an attack on his ego that he has to give in to unreasonable demands. His ego is completely opposed to giving in and thus you reached a deadlock. His response to a deadlock situation is to weasel out, quite common. He feels manipulated, the choice me or her is not really a choice at all as he sees it, it's you trying to manipulate him into one choice.

I suggest a step in a positive direction is firstly to inform. Approaching the situation as giving him information for a decision that is his to take.

I would suggest a mail from your counselor explaining to him in plain man talk terms women's nature and the underlying reasons for both her and your actions.

Do it fast too. I am concerned the situation is about to explode in the next few days.

If your counselor is not available let me know and I will attempt to write it.



 
#97 ·
Thanks for the continued support. I'm actually gearing up to call a lawyer to discuss my rights. Unfortunately, I have no real friends here as we've only been here for a couple years. All my family is back in Virginia. There are probable legal complications if I try to go home since he has equal rights to the baby once she's here.

I would never keep him from his child in any way. I have no doubt he will be a loving father to our child. But I do worry that if this goes to court at any point, the fact that I took the baby anywhere without his written consent will be an issue. Through all of this when I've tried to explain that this particular issue is a non-negotiable for me, his only reply has been to assure me that he will fight for the baby.

Somewhere in his head he is convinced that I will lawyer up and keep him from ever seeing his child. That I will raise her to hate him and make into some kind of monster. This is so far from the truth that I couldn't believe he would even make the accusation. I want our child to feel secure that we both love her, wanted her more than anything else in the world and are so happy to have her in our lives. There is no hatred here, nothing malicious. I just can't stay with a man who doesn't love me enough to put my needs ahead of his wants. It was suggested by a family member that if I leave him, he might very well speak ill of me to our child so he is concerned I am equally petty. I don't know.

I have tried writing it down for him in a formal letter, I have tried talking about it calmly. I have tried talking about it with emotion. I have spoken to the other woman twice now- once by force and once by my own accord when my husband was at work. Whether he chalks it up to hormones, jealousy or insecurity the fact that he won't even consider my feelings at all in the matter means that he will never love me the way I need to be loved.

I got him to a point where I thought he understood, but then not even a month passes and he is trying to see her. I explained my issue is that she is in a long-term relationship with another man and she still calls on him to be her support. I have heard him say "I will be in the man in your life" for this, that or the other when she calls crying. They talk to each other, but not to me. They make jokes about how I need electro-shock therapy because I'm apparently crazy like my mother- so he speaks of my family to her as well.

I would be uncomfortable with this friendship even it was with a man, but the fact that it's with a woman that has been in his life for so long and has been his only real confidante for 18 years makes it just too much for me to take. Part of me feels a lot of guilt for coming between them if that makes any sense since he relies on her so heavily and I want him to be happy. That is why it's really taken so long to say enough is enough. I honestly let it go to the breaking point because I didn't want to feel like a monster.

There is nothing I can do that hasn't been done, but I'm in therapy for our marriage struggles just to feel like I've exhausted all options. I've been asking for couples counseling for the past couple of years and he has refused at every turn.

He's told me that if something is wrong with the baby -and I'm talking ANYTHING, be it now or in six years when she starts school- he will hold me accountable. What's really funny/sad is that stress is the number one thing in my life that is likely to cause complications. He is the sole source of my stress and he couldn't even play nice until the baby comes. I'm glad I'm not worth lying to or hiding things from (no passwords have been changed, etc) since I'm better off knowing now than in a year that they are still best buddies behind my back. But really? He couldn't just stay away from her until my due date? Really?

This forum has been invaluable to me in terms of support and guidance. I want to thank all of you and hope that I can continue to come here and unload some of my concerns. The bright side in all of this is that it's happening now and not in two years. If my baby is going to be raised by separated/divorced parents, I want that to be "normal" for her. Taking her into consideration will hasten any decisions at this point because I don't want her to feel loss if we split up after she's gotten used to having us both present at the same time. It's a lot of emotion right now that the best thing that's ever happened (the baby) is happening at the exact time I'm going through the worst thing that's ever happened (EA). The focus is on the baby and my sanity. Coming here helps a lot. Formulating a plan with the help of you all, my family and my therapist helps more than I can say. I feel like I have some control over this and that I'm not "crazy" for feeling this way.

Thanks :)
 
#98 ·
Somewhere in his head he is convinced that I will lawyer up and keep him from ever seeing his child. That I will raise her to hate him and make into some kind of monster. This is so far from the truth that I couldn't believe he would even make the accusation. I want our child to feel secure that we both love her, wanted her more than anything else in the world and are so happy to have her in our lives. There is no hatred here, nothing malicious. I just can't stay with a man who doesn't love me enough to put my needs ahead of his wants. It was suggested by a family member that if I leave him, he might very well speak ill of me to our child so he is concerned I am equally petty. I don't know.



Thanks :)
Just a thought, but.....

I wonder if the OW put these thoughts in his head.

You see, I am currently separated from my WH, who happens to have several women who he talks to on his cell phone daily. Still does. I have no idea what thoughts they put in his head about me, based on "his version" of me. But I can tell you this much. His actions have been downright cruel, as if I was the one who cheated on him. I don't believe that on his own he would have thought of those things, but I do strongly believe that he is acting on what the OW whisper in his ear. And yes, since he is the one doing the acts, I hold him responsible.

So you see, these might not be "his" thoughts, but "her" thoughts being whispered in his ear behind your back. Those OW - all of them - are poison to a marriage.
 
#102 ·
The letter I wrote was focused more on the overall theme that he does not respect me as a person.

I started with a brief synopsis of the "deal breaker" issue regarding the emotional affair:

Regarding Fidelity- "I won't cite examples from over the years. But you know that your close affection for D and her need for your administrations of support have been a source of discomfort for me since we were dating. I felt it wasn't my place to say anything and for a while I thought D was a good friend of mine as well. I was mistaken on both counts. As your wife, the mother of your child and the woman to whom you have sworn vows, I am now saying that I wish for you to distance yourself from D. If your friendship with this one person is worth more to you than your wife's feelings and concerns that certain lines have been crossed, then I know where I stand. And that should be the end of things right now before there is a child involved."

I went into a couple of other issues regarding his violent temper and his unwillingness to communicate.

The letter was more of a means to an end summarizing the issues in our marriage that need work. It was a plea for him to join me in counseling and an explanation that this marriage is failing and I can't fix it alone. There is no blame, but we need to prioritize each other or this isn't going to work.

I reached out for a compromise things calmed down for a little while. He helped me around the house, spent more time with me, etc. But here we are again in under 4 weeks time.

We've needed help for a long time but we've scooted along in the meantime with a major fight every few months to sort of "let it all out"- the realization that he was meanwhile having what I now consider to be an EA on the side is what tipped the scales. I can't abide by infidelity. I want him to see the issue, to understand that I'm not trying to alienate him from his friends. But whether he "gets it" or not, I can't just sit back and let him do this to our family. She was there first, he feels a strong loyalty to her, and my trying to separate them from each other has only caused drama that seems to only bring them closer together as they unite against me.

He spoke to her on the phone Wednesday night for 11 minutes. He deleted this record off his phone, but I checked the phone records online last night and there was her number. So, today I will see him off. I cannot make him want to stay and begging him to choose me- well, I tried that. He's going to do what he wants and too bad for me if I don't like it.

My therapist suggested that maybe he wants me to leave him. That he's unhappy too and doesn't want to be the "bad guy" who dumps his pregnant wife for another woman/his freedom/whatever it is he really wants but won't tell me. I don't really want to be the "bad guy" either, but he's forcing my hand with this one.

I thought that if I leave him, I might write his family a letter. Something really simple and non-specific but clearly explaining that I left over another woman and not whatever crap he spouts when they ask. I know I will be painted in a negative light to his family and friends, but I need them to know that I was willing to work on it, to try, that I was in therapy trying to fix things but he was cheating on me. I worry that everyone will tell our daughter that I'm crazy, unstable, or evil in some way when she spends time with his side of the family. If they know there was infidelity, maybe they will hold back the judgement a little bit. If we can't figure this mess out, I want there to be a stable environment for our child to grow up in.
 
#103 ·
I thought that if I leave him, I might write his family a letter. Something really simple and non-specific but clearly explaining that I left over another woman and not whatever crap he spouts when they ask. I know I will be painted in a negative light to his family and friends, but I need them to know that I was willing to work on it, to try, that I was in therapy trying to fix things but he was cheating on me. I worry that everyone will tell our daughter that I'm crazy, unstable, or evil in some way when she spends time with his side of the family. If they know there was infidelity, maybe they will hold back the judgement a little bit. If we can't figure this mess out, I want there to be a stable environment for our child to grow up in.
:iagree:

Absolutely yes! Do the letter with an explanation of how this affair is affecting your relationship. Save a copy for your attorney, as evidence that you did not simply abandon the home nor are you overreacting. Write the letter with that in mind, citing facts in which you conclude that you can't stay in the marriage while he is involved with the OW. If your posts here are any indication of your ability to write such a letter, you will do just fine.

I wrote a similar "time line" email to my WS before I left, which clearly lists, item by item the things he was doing and how he was hurting me. I gave him the opportunity to address the issues, but he did nothing. Then I left him. He tried to say now (through his attorney) that I "abandoned the marital home", but my email, along with the evidence I had gathered, told a whole different story. I left him because of "extreme emotional abuse" and am able to prove it. All of it helps if you will be needing spousal support. Child Support is non-negotiable.

Please continue to keep us posted. Stay strong and take care of yourself. It's good to know that your own family is behind you.
 
#104 ·

While your letter likely did a good job of articulating your feelings it must have been difficult for him to read and understand.

Men's egos are more fragile than they seem and some of the wording in the letter because it's hurtful triggers a defensive reaction when read.

I would suggest another attempt from a different angle.

I would like to explain to him with some background the natural rivalry between women. How deep down most women feel that quality men are rare and are prepared to fight for them.

How most women have the capacity to be subtle when going towards their goals. Even if his friend seems innocent she is fully aware of the underlying situation.

How most men are not focused on these emotional undercurrents and that his friend is getting a feeling of empowerment from taking time away from you. Deep down she wants what you have, she resents not being good enough to get him.

For you as a woman the situation is obvious, he may be none the wiser. It's not the pregnancy hormones. It is a very common situation of women's rivalry.

I suggest that the letter not be written by you. Another man he trusts would be a good approach. His father, one of his friends.

Think about it. Given your recent communication you are both digging in your heels and are on the verge of a split up. Before you do would it not be wise to make sure he has the proper information to understand what's going on?

Yes you are in your full rights to feel upset, yes you are right to demand no contact of him. However on a psychological level sometimes when demanding it does not matter if it's right or wrong, the emotional response is a refusal.

 
#105 ·
At one point I did try to explain these things but he saw it as "irrational jealousy" because he cannot fathom that his friend would be devious in any way. He defends her honor and integrity and calls me spiteful for thinking ill of her. He said something akin to "you might be petty and jealous, but she's not the type to play games." Basically, he called me a liar.

I don't know that there is a man in his life that I could go to with this. It would mean intimately involving yet another third party into our marriage. I am not close to any of his male friends or relatives. His father and I do not get along and I can guarantee he wouldn't reach out to his son to save his marriage. My husband respects my father, who is aware of the situation in part, but they are not close. I don't think a letter from my "daddy" would really make an impact. But it's a thought.

My mother offered to contact him to explain the female mind, but my husband hates my mother. Her words mean less than mine.
 
#106 ·
No- you articulated your feelings, more than once. he can't hide behind some kind of mask of "I'm a man and I don't understand how this works" nonsense.

You've given him chance after chance, and he's dismissed your feelings time after time. You've articulated your problems in clear, plain language if that excerpt is anything to go by.

I think the "I'm sorry but that's the last straw" letter to the family is a good idea if that's the route you take.
 
#107 ·
Thank you for that. I will wait and see how this weekend goes and decide from there what to do.

I suppose at this point, I will be leaving for certain. I have an appointment with an attorney to discuss my rights since crossing state lines with our child will likely require paperwork.

If he spends the night at her house- whether her husband is there or not- I will leave now. Heck, there can be a big slumber party with 30 people and I will still pack my bags. Because that was the ONE thing I asked of him in the very beginning before I realized the extent of their relationship. I think I can legally go wherever I want without his consent as long as I'm still pregnant. Once the baby is here, I think I have to remain in our state of residence unless there are legal documents in place.

I might leave now regardless because even if he doesn't see her at all this weekend, it wasn't for lack of trying. I am so unhappy and I feel so betrayed that just sitting here watching him act like nothing is wrong while I go to therapy twice a week just makes me feel worse. It isn't fair to the baby for me to be this stressed all the time. Leaving would be stressful but at least I would be at home with my family instead of here with a man who doesn't respect me. I feel really isolated.

My husband makes it hard because he does petty things to hurt me like turning off the AC, hiding things I use daily like my hair brush, etc. Just really weird little things that feel a lot like threats. He's immature and he feels like I'm the bad guy for making an issue out of things. But the AC thing was super petty. He never touches it, not in 7 years of being together has he messed with it. But it's 90 degrees or higher each day and pregnancy makes it feel like it's 1000 degrees. He turned off the AC and then acted sympathetic when I didn't feel well. He convinced me it was just me and I had to discover for myself that the house was 85 degrees when I went downstairs for something in the middle of the day. I was literally in bed monitoring my temperature because a fever during pregnancy is a big, scary deal. So yeah, really petty and really unnerving responses. He thinks I'm in therapy to change him and refuses to go for any reason. And he knows that I'm talking to my mother and sister for support through this. I don't advertise anything to him, but he's not stupid.

Anyway, I will see how this weekend goes, speak to an attorney about my rights regarding the baby, and go from there.
 
#108 ·
My husband makes it hard because he does petty things to hurt me like turning off the AC, hiding things I use daily like my hair brush, etc. Just really weird little things that feel a lot like threats. He's immature and he feels like I'm the bad guy for making an issue out of things. But the AC thing was super petty. He never touches it, not in 7 years of being together has he messed with it. But it's 90 degrees or higher each day and pregnancy makes it feel like it's 1000 degrees. He turned off the AC and then acted sympathetic when I didn't feel well. He convinced me it was just me and I had to discover for myself that the house was 85 degrees when I went downstairs for something in the middle of the day. I was literally in bed monitoring my temperature because a fever during pregnancy is a big, scary deal. So yeah, really petty and really unnerving responses.
There is something really diabolical and scary about this. It's so manipulative that I don't think I could ever feel safe being around a person who did something like that to me.

Even if he doesn't see the friend this weekend, I would seriously consider getting out. That's a snapshot of what your life could be like in the years to come. Him making you feel crazy because he is manipulating your environment. Do you want your daughter raised in that environment? If he isn't willing to work on something like that, to fix what is wrong with him (and there is something wrong with a man who would do that to his pregnant wife), what choice do you have?
 
#110 ·
Seems like you're married to a manchild.

Emotional virgins with no boundaries.

You need to leave. A man should be proverbially covering the ground his pregnant wife walks on with rose petals. Not leaving her to sweat in bed.

You need some time away from him, and should consider divorce. Manchild's only think about themselves and thats not going to change anytime soon.
 
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