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Well I was wrong to forgive about the ea and it ending. Found A hidden phone.

62K views 240 replies 51 participants last post by  Shaggy 
#1 ·
Some of you have seen my thread about my wife caught texting with a co worker. Thought i solved the, problem. Nope, she took it under ground. They've been texting and at least making out for the last month. Don't know what to do. I'm In shock.
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#144 ·
I'm At a loss.... Once home, I tried to have my wife read the thread for new membersi thought it had a lot of great information on how to start the rebuilding process. All she did was huff and puff and act like I was torturing her. Once I got her to sit down with me and read it, she, only could complain there were too many acronyms and it was stupid. I just said fine f it , walked outside and posted this. Does She really not care....

Affair is over. Let's get back to normal. Just get over it. Stop acting like I'm a cheater. You made me cheat, I didn't want to. Now you're going to make me read boring stuff?

This is called rug sweeping.

Looks like your wife feels like she is giving you a gift because she ended the affair, not that you are giving her a gift by not divorcing her for her adulterous affair.
 
#145 ·
Well she did end up reading it with me. And, it looked, like she, really tried. And it actually showed like she cares a little., we'll see. She did say that it was nice to read about how I'm acting and put a, name to it. One concern she has brought up is my constant questioning. I keep, asking for details of everything. From the sex to conversations they had. And,i will ask these same questions over and over
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#150 ·
LOSTfan, convey to your wife that until further notice that the marriage is on probationary status and whether it survives or not will depend greatly on her actions or lack of. Why? because she will know that despite any attempts on her part to rugsweep her affair, that it won't fly with you. She must be made to understand that you have one foot out the marriage and that if she is truly serious about regaining your trust, that she will have to prove it to you by deeds and not words.
 
#155 ·
Print the following and give it to your wife to read:

"How to Rebuild Your Spouse's Trust After an Affair"

#1 Stop lying or making excuses for your actions. If the victim spouse presents evidence of the affair, own up to it. You need to understand that the worst thing that could happen has already occurred. You were dishonest and unfaithful. Therefore, continuing to lie, twist, or deny is simply adding insult to injury. If you are looking your spouse in the eye and claiming to want the marriage to work then you cannot continue to lie about various odds and ends. You have been lying to your spouse for the entire duration of the affair; therefore, if you continue to lie now, it sets the reconciliation process way back. ''The victim spouse likely knows the answers to the questions they are asking, or can usually find out, so if you are interested in rebuilding trust in the relationship, '''STOP LYING'''.'' If your spouse discovers later - either on purpose or by accident - that you have lied about or left out salient details, they will likely never trust you again. Your only hope of regaining their trust is to give them the truth wholesale, and thus demonstrate your commitment to being honest with them, even about things that might hurt them. You are kidding yourself if you think you are protecting your spouse by "omitting" certain truths. If you had wanted to protect your spouse, you never would have allowed them to get hurt in the first place.

#2 Be around. While emotional availability in the days, weeks, and even months following the discovery of your affair is of the '''utmost importance''', keep in mind that ''you can only be emotionally available when you're around.'' Understand that, left alone, your spouse's thoughts will begin to eat away at them - they will have questions you are not there to answer, torment themselves with images you cannot dispel, and invent suspicions your absence will only worsen. ''Paranoia is only natural during this time''; in fact, it can hardly be called paranoia, as '''they are right to mistrust you - you have betrayed them deeply'''. Being around to answer their questions and soothe their thoughts will keep them from building up and causing future explosions down the road. If it is possible, this may be a good time to take some time away from your normal "alone" activities to spend with your spouse. If you can't be with them physically, keep your phone on whenever possible to answer their calls, and allow them as much access to you as they need. Depending on your spouse's temperament, you may need to respect their desire for time alone, but you need to keep ''yourself'' available to ''them.''

#3 DO NOT get defensive or assign blame. This is not the time to employ the old adage of “the best defense is a good offense.” This is the time to be contrite/regretful, remorseful, empathetic, compassionate, honest, and emotionally available. Do not say anything which will give the impression that the victim spouse drove you to cheat, or in any way contributed to your behavior. There will be plenty of time to pass the blame around later on during counseling sessions, or during times of productive conversation with your mate. Additionally, DO NOT waste time blaming the affair on anyone or anything else. DO NOT point the finger toward temptation, being under the influence or falling prey to a stalker or that he/she was someone that you came in contact with at work or via a friend. '''You should have no room for excuses anymore.''' Telling your spouse you did not realize what was happening is not only bogus, it devalues the victim spouse. The victim spouse will see right through these excuses and will view this as another attempt to keep them in the dark while you continue playing them for a fool. The best way to effectively deal with your spouse's anger, and start the process of rebuilding trust, is to ''take complete and full ownership of your own selfishness, immaturity, or basic destructive marital behavior.'' '''Remind yourself that it is quite possible that the victim spouse was enduring similar feelings of unhappiness or frustration, but instead made a conscious decision not to betray you.''

#4 Treat your spouse as if they are the very center of your world. While you should do this anyway, it is of ''monumental importance'' that you focus on this IMMEDIATELY following the discovery of the affair. This is a critical time in the recovery of your relationship; '''dedicate yourself to it.''' Being cheated on will make your spouse feel rejected, unimportant, and decidedly less than "special." Regardless of your reasons or given situation, your spouse will be under the rightful impression that you have chosen someone over them, which is a difficult thing for them to face after years of thinking they were the most important person in your life.'This is especially true if you were involved in a long term relationship.'Giving your spouse your full attention during this time will help them to regain the feelings of importance in your life, and will go a long way towards convincing them that you are unlikely to choose somebody over them again.'' If you can, also show and tell to other people and the world even more how much you care or love your spouse in order to help the victim spouse overcome all the humiliation and hurt this burden may have caused.

#5 CUT any and ALL possible ties with the other man/woman. Keeping a person in your life with whom you have had an affair is like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. Not only is this a confusing message to the other person, ''it is also EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL to your spouse.'' It does not matter if you have known this other man/woman since kindergarten, or have to see this person at work. It is time to break those ties. '''Do what you must to avoid any contact.''' Convincing yourself that you need to talk to them to 'break it off' only communicates that their feelings, not your spouse's, are what you are most concerned about. Once you have allowed another individual to permeate, invade or undermine your marital union, there is no place for this person in your life. ''You simply cannot expect your victim spouse to move past the affair as long as you continue communicating with, seeing, or having any type of relationship with this other man/woman.'' '''It is in fact an insult''' to the intelligence of your current spouse for you to say that you can maintain a professional, platonic, or otherwise innocent relationship with this ''destructive individual''. Furthermore, '''because this person had an affair with a married man/woman, most likely they have absolutely NO RESPECT for your marriage.''' Continuing to work with, hang out with, email or chat with this person is probably the single worst possible thing to do if you are wanting to repair your marriage.

#6 Your life MUST be an open book. ''You no longer have the '''luxury''' of coming and going as you please.'' Once you have ''abused'' that privilege, ''it takes a while and a whole lot of effort to get it back.'' Therefore, if you will be late coming home from work, or have had a change in plans, inform your spouse. Every time you leave the house your spouse is now wondering if you are going where you say you are going. The best way to ease their insecurities is to check in throughout the day. Invite your spouse places you usually go alone like to the game, the gym or the mall. Let your spouse know that you have nothing to hide. Additionally, do not hide your cell phone or set the ringer on silent. If your spouse requests, give them your email and voice mail pass codes. In fact, if you have nothing to hide then offer your spouse the codes without them having to ask. Don't lock your cell phone, call log or address book. Offer to let your spouse see your phone bills, and keep the credit card or bank statements in plain view on the kitchen table. ''Although your spouse may never choose to check these things, the simple fact that you made them available for his/her perusal will be a HUGE step in regaining their trust.'' Although you may feel as though some of these are a violation of your privacy, you need to know that these steps are absolutely NECESSARY if you are trying to rebuild trust. Saying that you are on the straight and narrow while continuing to hide your cell phone or spending is counterproductive to your stated goal of wanting to rebuild your marriage.

#7 Be prepared to answer any and all questions about information that your spouse has a legitimate right to know. Your spouse is going to want lots of details and ask questions about things you may not want to answer, but too bad. Your spouse is going to cross reference your prior stories and ask you to confirm if “this” or “that” was a lie. You simply need to fess up. ''The worse thing you can do is to conceal information because you don't want to hurt your spouse.'' Remember, they have already been '''hurt beyond belief''', so continuing to withhold additional information gives the appearance of an attempt to continue the ''deception''. Your spouse needs to get a general understanding of how intense the relationship was, and how long it lasted. Although this may be one of the most difficult steps in the process, it is one of the most important. It is extremely difficult for a betrayed spouse to know that there is another man/woman in the world who has more information about their marriage then themselves. That there are people that know about that relationship and may be talking about your marriage. Therefore, asking multiple questions helps the betrayed spouse get up to speed, thus obtaining necessary information to deal with feelings of being in the dark while their spouse was gallivanting or mooching around with their lover/relationship.

#8 '''Do not ever''' attempt to dictate the length of time the victim spouses recovery should take. You are the one who brought the outsider into the marriage, and therefore, '''you are in no position to dictate when the victim spouse should be “over it”.''' The truth of the matter is, the victim spouse will never fully be “over it”, but may simply learn how to mentally move past the affair. When a person is hurting, they typically share their pain with the closest person to them. As their spouse, you are the one they will vent to, even though it is you that caused the pain. Additionally, you may feel as though since you've confessed, apologized and vowed to remain faithful, things should now return to normal. That is simply NOT the case. '''One of the worst things that can happen is for the adulterous spouse to begin acting as though its “business as usual”.''' Deciding to remain in a relationship after your spouse has cheated is a '''Major decision''' and one which can be both '''very humiliating and enormously stressful.''' ''DO NOT downplay the GREAT MAGNITUDE of that decision by behaving as though nothing happened.'' '''For the next few years''', the adulterous spouse '''needs''' to periodically wrap their arms around their mate, kiss them, and THANK them for another chance. Additionally, 'acknowledge' how much you hurt your spouse, how difficult it must be for them to get over the pain, and '''vow to do whatever necessary to make things better…forever.''' Although it may seem as though such actions will revive the pain, that is simply not the case. ''Acknowledging the degree of pain you put your spouse through, and expressing appreciation for another chance'', gives the victim spouse the impression that you not only are mindful of their pain, but that as long as you are aware of their struggle to overcome the ordeal, you will be less likely to make such awful choices again in the future.

#9 Choose your battles wisely. Keep in mind that now is not necessarily the time to pick fights over certain topics, particularly those related to privacy and possessiveness. Your spouse is feeling betrayed and frightened; it is only natural for them in this state to project those fears onto situations that bear (in their mind) any resemblance to your affair. If a random stranger flirts with you, or buys you a drink at a bar, and your spouse becomes agitated, remember that your spouse has an '''understandable right''' to this possessiveness; you have shaken their feelings of security in the relationship, and it is openness and understanding that will gain this back, not combativeness and arguments. ''Rather than angrily asserting your rights, you will do much better to gain their trust by assuring them of their importance to you and soothing their bruised ego and wounded heart with compliments and understanding.''

#10 '''Do not''' behave inappropriately or create future problems. Don't put yourself in situations which will cause your victim spouse undue stress. Putting your friends before your spouse, joining singles website, spending time with friends of opposite sex, or available singles, and forming relationships with them, is certainly not wise. Even with work relationships keep the conversations to a minimum, remember that this is how relationships begin or cross messages are sent. ''It is extremely selfish and disrespectful to your spouse.'' Additionally, make your spouse aware when you anticipate coming into contact with the other man/woman. If you suspect the other man/woman might be at the holiday party, let your spouse know in advance. Also, if you run into, or have contact with, the other man/woman unexpectedly, let your spouse know as soon as possible. Nothing is worse than finding out about contact with the other man/woman that the victim spouse did not know about. It gives the impression of further secrecy and deception. Trust me, it won't hurt your spouse to know the other man/woman is contacting you as much as it will hurt them to discover you hid that information. ''Believe me, during this time of broken trust, full disclosure is always the best route.''

#11 Use this '''opportunity''' to create a new relationship with your spouse. Be open to opportunities to bring each other closer together. Remember that your spouse now views your relationship as broken, and they're right to think so. The key, then, is to forge a new relationship in as many ways as possible. '' Finding new places to spend time and share activities together will help this.'' Make sure that he or she and everyone around you (i.e.family, friends, children) can see that your spouse means the world to you and is NOW being put first in your life. '''Speak highly of your spouse in a genuine way, being careful to protect their reputation when you speak to others'''--talking badly about them behind their backs is ''not only a BIG MISTAKE but also BAD BEHAVIOR'' (it may also reflect badly on you as their spouse). You and your spouse (and your children) are one family that must always protect, support, and lift each other up all the time especially from strangers and NOT the other way around. This may even be an opportunity, in the fullness of time and once the recovery process is very well on its way, to renew your wedding vows. Help your partner to see that you have created something new, stronger, and therefore not threatened by the sins of your past or the likelihood of future infidelities.

Stephanie Anderson
Editor-in-Chief
Marriage Sherpa
 
#156 ·
Oh and here's something for you to read as well:

I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!
 
#161 ·
Ugh, I was having a good night with her until I thought of that. Now every time I look at her hand and see the ring; all I see is how she either was so disrespectful that she didn't care if it was on or not, or that I meant so little that she forgot about it.
 
#162 ·
Get yourself into counseling with a professional with experience in helping victims of infidelity and PTSD. I did, so did bandit.45, and it was well worth it.

Also, read the following:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40190-feeding-affair-image-beast.html#post593486
Erase Obsessive Affair Images (in 30 Minutes)

Mistake: An act committed without any knowledge of a possible negative outcome.

Bad Choice: An act committed with awareness of the possible negative outcome but deciding to ignore it or hoping for the best.
 
#164 ·
Found out the date that it happened. Turns out she wasn't wearing the ring. She claimed that she couldn't remember the night it happened calendar wise all through this ordeal. Well Tonight i demanded knowing and figuring it out. Once we did, I looked back at my texts, and I noticed that I texted her earlier in the night that she forgot to wear it.
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#176 ·
How convenient.

She planned it, planned the whole thing.

I guess what you have to ask yourself now is whether or not you want top be a parole officer to her for the next two or three years.

If I were you I would put my ring away. When she comes around and commits herself to being your wife, developes some personal boundaries, then tell her two or three years down the road you will consider putting the ring back on. Until that time your marriage is on hold.
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#165 ·
Ok so I want to know if this is a good idea, I want to text this om, and tell him kind of about the nc letter. In the texts, she told him if I ever found out, shed be with him that night. Well she didn't fo that. And I asked her about that. And she told me because she said that while caught up in this crazy emotion that wasn't real. Whatevr, the point is he thinks she was going to leave me for him. She didn't, and now my alpha wants to shove that in his face a little. I wanna send him a text saying "I know you're too scared to respond to me, but I want you to know my wife is writing you a letter that I didn't even tell her to do. And it basically says that she wants nothing to do with you and that you mean nothing to her. You lose". Is that not a good idea?
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#168 ·
Ok so I want to know if this is a good idea, I want to text this om, and tell him kind of about the nc letter.

I think it's generally a bad idea to contact the affair partner, especially if the affair is over. If no contact has been established, better to keep it that way.

Rarely does the affair partner react/respond they way you had hoped they would.

If you really feel you want to, go ahead, but just be prepared for him not to see it the same way as you do, about YOU being the winner because your wife did choose to cheat on you wit him and had sex with him.

What does your wife think of this idea? Is she afraid he will tell you the truth, that she had sex with him more than just once, or that she did things with him that she never did with you? Even if those are lies, what are you going to do if he responds to you with something like that? I think it's just easier to ignore him, this thing is your wife's fault.

In the texts, she told him if I ever found out, shed be with him that night. Well she didn't fo that. And I asked her about that. And she told me because she said that while caught up in this crazy emotion that wasn't real. Whatevr, the point is he thinks she was going to leave me for him. She didn't, and now my alpha wants to shove that in his face a little. I wanna send him a text saying "I know you're too scared to respond to me, but I want you to know my wife is writing you a letter that I didn't even tell her to do. And it basically says that she wants nothing to do with you and that you mean nothing to her. You lose". Is that not a good idea?

Your wife has to work with him every day. She's already basically telling him that with the no contact letter, that she chose you over him, he loses. He will be able to figure that out from your wife's no contact letter. Your contacting him just makes you look like he's really gotten under your skin, which softens the blow of your wife's rejection and let's him know he hurt your marriage. (He probably really has, but did you ever hear the expression, "never let them see you sweat"?) I see more downside than upside to you contacting other man. At least right now.

If I were in your place, I probably would never contact other man again. If I did anything for revenge, which I probably wouldn't, it would be something like the following: I would wait until my wife had found another job, then, after she left her old employer and was at her new employer for about a month, I would let the former employer (other man's employer) know via a letter that the real reason she left was that she felt uncomfortable working with the other man because she believed he was using his position of authority to influence her to have sex with him. That you felt he pursued your wife and was able to entice your wife into sexual relations that she might not otherwise have consented to if not for his position of authority. That he had used business time to pursue an extra-marital affair with your wife. That you were considering a lawsuit against them because they fostered a toxic workplace environment that fostered sexual relations between employees during work hours and you felt the other man was a predator who used his position of authority as a security guard and his employer-provided apartment for sexual liaisons with the female employees that you consider to be borderline sexual harassment. That you would let them know if you do decide to go ahead with the lawsuit. Then let other man deal with any fallout.

I probably wouldn't do this, but if I did anything, it would be something like this, not contacting other man to tell him I won. In your case, with my wife having cheated, I don't think I would feel like too much of a winner and I wouldn't want the other man to respond back, gloating that he had had my wife.
 
#171 ·
Don't jump back into R like a trusting idiot. Take time. Observe. Your wife made the turn around a bit too fast, considering her texts when in the affair. Maybe she is reacting out of guilt and shame but she looked like some one who did not respect you at all when in the affair. Why did she lose respect for you ? How are you handling that?
 
#177 ·
You are moving on with your reconcilliation to quickly. Your wife has experienced no sanctions. You are letting her keep a job that will keep her in contact with the OM. She cries and you bend like a twig. She got to have hot sex (more than once) with the OM yet you allow her to go on with a normal life as if nothing has happened.

If it were me I would ask her to move out for a period of time and have no contact other than attending marriage counseling together. If you did that I guarantee you she would show you her true self.
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