Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams. Posted via Mobile Device
Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams
Totally agrees with it. If they both masturbate and moan just feet away from each other how do you define it? Webcams only make it with some distance.
Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams. Posted via Mobile Device
Once it goes to sexual satisfaction there is no way to just call it an emotional affair. The fact that there is no actually physical contact means little to me.
Here we have just a reduction issue. Whe need to manage the full spectrum of possible cheating so we decide some labels and acronims. How can call "emotional" an affair which is purely? sexual satisfaction, long distance or not? Then we also have "emotional" affairs which are not romantic either but clearly meet some emotional needs. Then we have PA, "just sex" afair with completely negate the obvious emotional aspect of sex (otherwise toys make the deal too). Does holding hands makes an EA a PA?
Well we have to name EA when there's not physical contact.
Halien: Part of me feels like I could embrace the possibly of a divorce...the logical side, and my heart tells me to try and work through it. I think my uncertainty there would put me in too weak of a position right now to threaten it all seriousness with it, but it's still in the back of my mind as an option. I have already promised myself if I do reconcile, and she does anything like this again, I will leave no matter what. Life is too short for this horrible mess. I've already accepted more disappoints than I normally would because of her history. I probably should have mentioned this wasn't even her first online affair...she had an EA with a man when we were still dating that I busted her on. Part of what made this so bad is it came up in therapy, and even though it's been 4 years, it was like reliving the trauma all over again and I knew she saw what just facing it with the therapist did to me.
I do take some small comfort in the fact I don't think she would have been able to have a physical affair at any point, though that's not at all impossible. I always know who she's with, and where she's going on on the rare occasions she does. Most of the time she's usually with her mom and the kids. Probably the only non-work time she's really been gone without any of them for any length of time has been when she took that trip to meet her friend, and she came back the same day she left. She assured me she wasn't involved with any of their stuff...but it's not like she couldn't have lied, though I truly don't think so.
Good advice, and I truly hope the woman I fell in love with, the one who seemed to have strong moral convictions, is still in there. Otherwise there truly is no point.
Our marriage counselor suggested I write out a list of terms I need in order to reconcile. I told her I said a few of them, but she insisted I actually put it in writing, so that's what I'll be doing today.
One of my terms is that she needs to work more often. She claims this all started, her addiction to the game, because she was so lonely and needed a social outlet. It was never my idea for her to be a stay-at-home mom or to homeschool her son. That was a decision my MIL and her had made, basically with little input with me. I just tried to support it and go along with it, but clearly that just leaves her with way too much time on her hands and frankly, causes us undue stress due to having tight finances all the time. So sound advice there too.
As you consider terms for reconciliation, my point was that it is important to recognize that you are working from a position of compromise as long as she is free to call your demands an invasion of her privacy. Not saying that I disagree with the approach, but just that you have to recognize the position you may be in. In her mind, if she was putting her best foot forward into keeping the marriage, trying to keep you, whether its driven by remorse or her love for you, her only concern will be making the changes it takes to love you. This isn't the dynamic that you will work with, though, at least for now. Intellectually, she knows that her affair behaviors are wrong, but her heart is mixed.
Some of the answers are things that only you can determine, based on your relationship and how you relate to each other when it comes to attraction. Begging, pleading, or bargaining might be the tools that you will be tempted to use in desperation. Never lose sight of the fact that the other man, or men, are not begging, pleading or bargaining, and that this is why she is risking everything for them. That and the fact that she knows you will be there, as long as she meets you in the middle.
She was willing to reconcile? Or willing to do what it takes to earn your trust again? Has she shown you real remorse? Other than remorse about getting caught?
I think maybe? She internalizes a lot of stuff and has said as much, but she has said she was sorry many times. I think she does genuinely feel guilty and was afraid of losing me when she realized it was a possibility. Our therapist mentioned that sometimes the denial that they're doing anything wrong is so strong with people, that they don't fully realize the impact of how wrong what they've been doing is until it's in their face.
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I don't know what your normal sex life was before the betrayals, but this encounter doesn't seem very respectful. She has disrespected you enormously - no doubt. That doesn't mean you should engage in disrespectful behavior. I'm certain it's nearly impossible to think of her sexuality in a respectful way now, but until you can, I think you should consider a hiatus. You don't want to start on your list of regrets...
No, you're totally right, it wasn't. And you're right, I am having trouble even thinking of her at all respectfully in that area. A hiatus is certainly probably a good idea, I just wish there wasn't this stupid side to me that just desired to connect with her physically again so badly. I kept thinking, oh it's all only for him huh? I can't even look at you anymore? I had tried to actually sleep on the couch because I realized when we were first laying together that she wasn't going to comfort me, aside from reaching back with her back to me to hold my hand when I asked for it, but she convinced me to come back to bed after an hour or so and that's when the emotions starting going haywire again. I just kept picturing a nightmare movie of her laying there pleasuring herself to him.
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HUGE red flag! A violation of HER privacy??? This is like a neon sign glaring 'NO REMORSE'!
That's what it felt like to me too.
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You seem concerned that she stay 'uncomfortable' and you have a desire to keep her on edge. Be careful when generalizing.
You're concerned she believes she can sweep this all under the rug without acknowledging the pain she's caused you and taking any actions to rebuild your trust and be willing to provide reassurance to you in the meantime. The standoffishness, lack of apologies, hugs, intimacy, and demanding her rights all imply a lack of sincerity and remorse.
If your marriage survives this, it will never be the same. However if it survives, it will likely be stronger.
But, it takes two. Your wife has strayed from your shared vision - even including your faith. She is demonstrating no willingness to fix what she's broken or to love you as her husband.
She has hugged me and apologized with a basic, "I'm sorry" many times over, but it just feels like I have to prompt everything, and that makes it feel less sincere. If someone has to ask you to do something, rather than you just doing it because you know it's the right thing and they might need it, it's just a lot different.
To answer your question further down: I've alternated between the couch and the bed the last couple of nights. I realized I couldn't stay in there last night, so spent most of it in the bed until being an idiot and wanting solace with her at which point I climbed in there. Then the mixed up feelings started getting the better of me and I ended up kind of expressing my hurt over everything again.
That's all I was going to say. Forget what you had. It'll never be the same again. Mine is different in very bad ways. 3 years later and no remorse from my wife. Continued rug-sweeping. If that continues with your wife, just get out. You're young. You can start over. I'm old. I'm done. I'm miserable.
You don't get a do-over in life. One shot. Don't waste it with someone who doesn't love you enough to help you.
Sorry you're having to feel that way Mrk. I know what you're saying...and I've told myself this is the last time. If it happens again, I'm gone, no ifs and or buts. Part of me almost knows she will, but another part hopes she realizes this time she pushed the marriage off a cliff and it's only hanging on with one hand at this point.
First thing you should off the Internet at your home, that will prevent her from rejoining the game.
She isn't remorseful intact the fact that her privacy (really ability to have secrets) is so much more important to her than the marriage speaks volumes. It says that she is very likely using some other way of continuing contact with the OM.
I recommend doing everything you can to isolate her from access to the OM as much as you can. The idea is to detox her from ongoing contact. To do this cut off Internet to her, cut off her ability to use a smart phone since you can run video Skype on them. You should also expose her affair to her parents and any friends she might turn to for help in contacting the OM.
Watch out for her going to the library and using the computers there.
She won't like it, not one bit. Shell call you controlling - your response to this needs to be to ask her how you should deal with her continued contact with the
OM and the ongoing lies about NC. Your not trying to control her, your trying to help her get space from him.
She must give you compete transparency to online stuff. Heck even offer to share your email passwords in return. Posted via Mobile Device
I think...hopefully, that she truly has cut off contact with the OM. I did read a message where she told him, "sorry, it's over." before deleting him from her Facebook and email account. The fact I told his wife and let him know where he stood with me may also be enough to keep him from pushing things any further, but who knows at this point.
I'll definitely keep in mind the other things you mentioned. The email/account password stuff is a definite. I've already put it in the reconcilation agreement I just wrote a bit ago.
I take it y'all are either Baptist or some kind of non-denominational Evangelicals, so I will discuss from that angle.
You don't have Biblical grounds for divorce. Yet. But, you probably will eventually.
I only have a minor in Psych, so I hate to mention it, but was she molested by a family member when she was a kid?
Was your wife married previously or did the stork bring her son by special delivery?
How often do you yourself get hit on by women IRL? Do they come up and talk to you? How about at work? Any unsolicited flirting going on? How do you rank your attractiveness on a scale of 1-10?
You've made me miss Sunday School.
We're pretty much non-denominational. She wasn't molested by a family member, but by a close friend of the family...an 18 year-old guy who was living with them. Unfortunately her brother and sister also had the same happen. She was only 4 at the time.
My wife had her previous child with a man she had only been dating a few months. He accused her of it being another man's child and bailed on her, though it's extremely obvious my son is indeed, biologically his. He ended up skulking around when he was still a baby, dragged her to court custody, for getting child support from him. That whole thing is a mess in itself.
I get at least looks my fair share, but don't engage other women in anything further except for one time...
I should have mentioned this in my earlier post, but I confessed to my wife after I got her to tell me everything that there was an incident where I kissed a woman at work a few months ago. I'm not excusing it, but it meant nothing and I realized the second it happened that it was wrong and not something I would ever do again. I told the woman that I couldn't be intimate with her like that and she has respected my feelings. I've been honest about that with anyone I've told the rest of this story too so far, including my own family, but forgot to put it in my earlier message. All it did was made me realize I could never cheat on her further or again, no matter how bad I'm hurting for physical attention.
Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams. Posted via Mobile Device
I should clarify, and not to defend her, but they weren't using a webcam that I know of though the thought sickens me. In her chat thing on Google, it did have a little green camera. All the sex stuff she claims was done within her game, the chat didn't come until after I made her quit it, and she claims they didn't cyber after that, but continued the intimate talking after she gave up her brief "resolve" to try to keep it only "friendly". Yeah right. How you go from that to posing in the mirror for a picture with your bra exposed it was still baffles me.
Once it goes to sexual satisfaction there is no way to just call it an emotional affair. The fact that there is no actually physical contact means little to me.
That's my feeling too. It was both emotional and very much sexual. And the premeditation to it is part of what bothered me.
Sorry you're having to feel that way Mrk. I know what you're saying...and I've told myself this is the last time. If it happens again, I'm gone, no ifs and or buts. Part of me almost knows she will, but another part hopes she realizes this time she pushed the marriage off a cliff and it's only hanging on with one hand at this point.
You are giving her the impression you can't live with out her. The message you need to be sending is you have one foot out the door. DO NOY ASK HER TO HOLD YOUR HAND OR COMFORT YOU! No matter how you feel, you have to portray strength and resolve. If you can't keep it together remove yourself to another room. She has to think its up to her to win you back. You HAVE to put it all on the line. Show no anger, only determinmation. Else she willl see you as weak and her other friends as stong and manly.
If you have to cry, make absolutely sure she does not see it or know it.
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Study the 180, and do a mild version of it for now until you get the MAP working.
Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams. Posted via Mobile Device
Gosh. You are right! Never thought of it that way, but yes. It IS a PA!
Some may disagree with my definition, but once you get into webcams and cybersex with them, I count the affair as PA. I reserve EA for purely emotional affairs via words and feelings. This crossed from EA when they started the cybersex over cams. Posted via Mobile Device
I agree. I am sorry to hear your story OP, its not your fault but why did you not throw the damn computer out at the realization that this computer became an addiction affecting your marriage, your family? It sounds like she took it a bit as if it was nothing, the typical deminuizing. Stop smoking, you worked hardthe past year. This is the time when it counts not to backtrack into your previously defeated addictions. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Wife's Online Affair 
