Think the BJ was actually intercourse? That's what I think. And in my state I can't file adultery if it was only oral sex. Maybe he knows this. I mean, the story is disturbing in itself. So some of it has to be true. I know the other coworker was a player, he has backed up WS's story... (Don't trust him, though. He covered for WS for all these years.) What do you think is the lie here?
I think the BJ was intercourse as you do. I don't know if he actually has thought about laws and stuff, though - I think he's just a typical cowardly WS. They lie cuz they're scared little ego wouldn't have it any other way. As for the coworker, well, he's the same and I wouldn't trust a damn thing that spewed from his lips.
And how much do you all think alcohol played into this? He claims he threw up in the shower the next morning. He was obviously drunk, but sober enough to get it up and orgasm?!? How's that possible?
Quite improbable IMO. I've been overly drunk and tried to have sex. I never finished, hence I'd never get that blasted and try to have sex ever again. It kinda stinks.
And is it possible to really make a mistake and learn from it? Or is once a cheater, always a cheater true?
I believe if a cheater is truly remorseful and is fully honest with the BS, then they can learn from it. Otherwise it's kind of like any addiction that goes untreated: Given the right time and place, it will happen again.
Sadly, I have started to remember him coming home. It was his 30th birthday. I welcomed him back home with balloons and a banner! How crappy is that?!? Hope he felt awful. I now remember him acting weird all week. He was at the computer that next morning, I asked him was he feeling ill? I even gave him a back massage! JERK! He went out of town a week later. He wouldn't have sex with me all week, I now remember how odd I thought that was, but he said he felt off. Man, was I ever stupid... I had been on my period before. It turned into like a month we didn't have sex. I specifically remember saying to him if we don't have sex this week it will be a month... Funny, how old memories can pop back up. Long forgotten.
The old memories will continue to come back and haunt you a bit and that really sucks. It's a form of PTSD...except I called it being PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder). And being pissed takes a long time to get over, it seems. I'm still a bit PISD.
IF my WS is telling me the truth... (which I doubt.)
As a guy, how easy would this be to fall into this mistake and is it forgivable in your opinion?
hb, I'm sorry you're in such pain over this. As a guy, my take is that it depends on the person whether or not this is an easy mistake to fall into. Well, one doesn't just fall into a bj! At my bachelor party the guys hired a stripper. At the end they said she would give me a bj in a back bedroom. I was as drunk as I've ever been. I turned it down.
Some men have a cheating streak in them. They go looking for opportunities to cheat. Other men might be strongly committed to their marriage in general but then have a period of weakness. Alcohol can certainly lower a person's inhibitions.
So that is a long way around of saying I don't think it is easy for a man to fall into a bj, but people do have weaknesses. A ONS bj does fit the mold of being a mistake made in a moment of weakness.
Which does not make it less of a betrayal. Nor does it make it easily forgivable imo. This is as much of a big deal as any other kind of PA. He has to go through all the same process of demonstrating remorse, asking forgiveness, being transparent, seeking IC/MC to understand what happened, etc. After all that, it is still your right to decide if you want to stay married to him.
Forgiveness is a strange word with several meanings. I don't think you can give him forgiveness for the bj without him doing a lot of heavy lifting. The other meaning of the word is you learning to accept what happened and choosing not to let it eat you up. From that standpoint I think you can work towards letting this go.
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Originally Posted by hurtingbadly
He can't tell me why he really did it. He acknowledges being drunk isn't an excuse. Some ideas have been it was a few days before his 30th birthday, we got married young, he didn't get to really have the single life, he was jealous of his coworkers, it was exciting having a young girl hit on him... (Ya, the last two HURT ME VERY BADLY.)
This I think is maybe a bigger problem for you than the actual sex act. He can't tell you why he did it. Without knowing why, there is no security in the future. I think he does know why, he just doesn't want to go there. The answer might be as simple as he was horny after seeing these models all day, and he was weak. He didn't think about you or the marriage. He was being selfish. To admit to himself those things might be pretty tough, and to admit it to you might be even harder. Maybe the reason is something completely different.
Have you read any books such as "After the Affair"? You have certain needs in the recovery process which he needs to know about. The book helped me get some clarity in the process of reconciliation from a betrayal.
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Originally Posted by hurtingbadly
Other than doubts I have, if this was the real and only story... Thoughts?
I am not inclined at this time to believe this is the whole story. You have the right to seek as much information as you need. He did betray you even if it was limited to exactly what he has told you.
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Originally Posted by hurtingbadly
He won't budge, we've being going in circles for ten months now. I at one time tested positive for HPV, he still says when he finally confessed this to me it was everything. This is why he confessed, I kept on him about the HPV and a relationship he had with a coworker. I had threatened a poly... He's been suicidal, it's been pretty bad here. It's gotten to the point I can't ask any more questions.
I just don't know. I can't seem to forgive, don't feel like I have closure. It hurts too bad. The last nine years seem like one big lie.
Part of the process for you is this feeling of uncertainty about everything. I felt like literally the world below my feet had vaporized when I learned of the depth and scope of my wife's deceptions. What had been real? Had anything ever been real? Who is this person? Is her real nature the liar and deceiver? Who will she be in the future?
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Originally Posted by hurtingbadly
Totally, very scary we could be together ten years and he cheats?!? And worse lie to me for almost a decade? Totally disturbing. Makes everything seem like a lie. I feel extremely played and a terrible fool. My "best friend" is suddenly a complete stranger.
The fact that these issues are still so big for you after nearly a year makes it worth you getting some closure. The poly seems like the best avenue. In my opinion this has risen to a very high priority of need in your life, above many other things. Are you giving yourself enough priority? Don't be super mom who sacrifices everything for everybody else. You have needs, too. If the kids have to do without soccer league this season, it might be a sacrifice they have to make for the family so that you can afford the poly.
A man should be able to resist a temptation. It's not an excuse.
That being said...A woman should be able to resist a temptation. All committed spouses should resist temptation. In my opinion this is what we agreed to when we said our vows. Sigh...
I am sorry you are going through this. Trickle truth, in my opinion is the most devastating part of the process when learning about an affair or possible affair. Yes you have the knowledge that something has occurred, which hit me like a mack truck, but it's the backing up and hitting you again and again (trickle truth), that hurts so badly.
I wish you the best. I hope that you are eventually able to learn all that you need to know. I hope that all of us (BS) will one day feel confident that we have the "whole truth".
OK, it seems the guys here think this story is made up. What sticks out to all of you? Think the BJ was actually intercourse?
What sticks out to me is that he only confessed upon threat of poly, and he hasn't been working overtime to repair the marriage. His acting weird for the week after that trip does indicate he felt guilt, which then suggests he was not a habitual cheater up to that point in time.
I'm not buying your H's story about the BJ. Most likely the co-worker brought an extra model with him as a present for your H.
Maybe... It just seems more gross to me the story he gave that they both shared the same girl?
BTW, his coworker wouldn't confess he had sex with the girl beforehand. Just he brought her back to the room to smoke pot, they fooled around and he then passed out. Then she moved over to WS and gave a BJ. WS says his coworker did have intercourse with her.
Thor, thanks for your comments. I'm about to walk out the door, but I want to get back to your post later.
I was just thinking... I know cheating is cheating. But, intercourse IMO would be a higher level of disrespect for me. Cause, according to his story I would have been worth less to him than sloppy seconds. He would have risked getting some stranger pregnant (Can you imagine that paternity test?!?), risked bringing us home STDs (which it seems he did anyway with the HPV)... Plus, if he had intercourse with this girl after his coworker did?!? Just totally incredibly gross.
As it is I'm having extreme issues with giving him a BJ. I can't do it. Something I enjoyed doing for him now suddenly seems extremely cheap and degrading.
Just quoting the doctors in my previous post. You probably know more about it than I do. Here's what the doctors say:
(doctor's answer to someone on a webmd forum asking if he got HPV from oral sex)
1. Of the bacterial STDs the only ones passed on by oral sex with any meaningful frequency are gonorrhea and NGU.
2. If you were going to get herpes, you would have had an outbreak by now.
3. HPV is not transmitted through oral sex. Further, since about 85% of all adults have HPV, even if you were to find out you had it, you would really have no idea of where it came from You and or your GF, as well as your casual partner most likely already have it.
4. HIV is a non-issue. We quote the odds of getting HIV from oral sex as being less than 1 in 10,0000. We also however acknowledge that his is a conservative estimate. Some experts think there is no risk at all from oral sex.
HIV are found in the saliva and can be transmitted this way.
Maybe... It just seems more gross to me the story he gave that they both shared the same girl?
BTW, his coworker wouldn't confess he had sex with the girl beforehand. Just he brought her back to the room to smoke pot, they fooled around and he then passed out. Then she moved over to WS and gave a BJ. WS says his coworker did have intercourse with her.
Thor, thanks for your comments. I'm about to walk out the door, but I want to get back to your post later.
I was just thinking... I know cheating is cheating. But, intercourse IMO would be a higher level of disrespect for me. Cause, according to his story I would have been worth less to him than sloppy seconds. He would have risked getting some stranger pregnant (Can you imagine that paternity test?!?), risked bringing us home STDs (which it seems he did anyway with the HPV)... Plus, if he had intercourse with this girl after his coworker did?!? Just totally incredibly gross.
As it is I'm having extreme issues with giving him a BJ. I can't do it. Something I enjoyed doing for him now suddenly seems extremely cheap and degrading.
What sticks out to me is that he only confessed upon threat of poly, and he hasn't been working overtime to repair the marriage. His acting weird for the week after that trip does indicate he felt guilt, which then suggests he was not a habitual cheater up to that point in time.
Ya, when I started coming down hard on him about the HPV after several years of worrying he gave me a stupid story about this model gave him a birthday kiss nine years ago and that was his only physical contact he had had during our marriage. That he never touched his coworker I suspected. He does admit he was too close to her than he should have been. (We've worked on the boundaries issue since then.) This went on for a month. Then I threated the poly. He bluffed and said he was all for it, that he never touched his coworker. Then that weekend late at night he told me he never kissed the model, she actually gave him a BJ. He then said he was sorry, he never wanted to hurt me or the girls and he left the house. I was in total shock. Nine years ago?!? I was suspecting his coworker, not some business trip from years ago. I texted him to come back home. We went thru a short honeymoon like phase after that, then suddenly the reality hit me like a ton of bricks. And it's been that way for months now.
I can remember back and he definitely acted weird when he came back home. He was home a week before he went out of town again for another week, after that I don't really remember anything sticking out. But, whenever cheating was brought up on TV he would act very weird. If I talked about it, he would say cheating was awful and he didn't want to talk about it. This is what surprised me so much, he really played into the cheating was awful thing with me.
But, whenever cheating was brought up on TV he would act very weird. If I talked about it, he would say cheating was awful and he didn't want to talk about it. This is what surprised me so much, he really played into the cheating was awful thing with me.
My counselor calls this something like "Verbal Leakage". It is an unconscious thing which give us clues after the fact. He probably does think cheating is wrong, and he really is uncomfortable talking about it. Now you know why he is uncomfortable!
You remember him being weird about it because it was a change from his past behavior when cheating came up on tv. It didn't make sense back then, so it seemed weird.
My first encounter with that disconnected feeling was when my wife excused Bill Clinton's lie about Monica with "It was sex, and everybody lies about sex!". It took another 15 years before I knew where that came from.
My counselor calls this something like "Verbal Leakage". It is an unconscious thing which give us clues after the fact. He probably does think cheating is wrong, and he really is uncomfortable talking about it. Now you know why he is uncomfortable!
You remember him being weird about it because it was a change from his past behavior when cheating came up on tv. It didn't make sense back then, so it seemed weird.
My first encounter with that disconnected feeling was when my wife excused Bill Clinton's lie about Monica with "It was sex, and everybody lies about sex!". It took another 15 years before I knew where that came from.
Every person I've told his story to, including several counselors have said, Oh, he's pulling a Bill Clinton! Posted via Mobile Device
SomedayDig, the once a cheater, always cheater thing... I do wonder if once he saw he could cheat and then get away with it, if that makes it easier second time around. I think so. Posted via Mobile Device
And how much do you all think alcohol played into this? He claims he threw up in the shower the next morning. He was obviously drunk, but sober enough to get it up and orgasm?!? How's that possible?
It probably played some part, but it's no excuse. Throwing up in the shower is meaningless. Could be a lie, or could have been food-related. Also, a guy doesn't have to be anywhere near sober to do the deed. Back in my crazy days, I'd do it drunk off my azz, and not even remembering a lot of it the next morning.
My guess here...the "model" was actually a pro, and the coworker and your H paid for her services. Sorry, but your H is FOS.
It probably played some part, but it's no excuse. Throwing up in the shower is meaningless. Could be a lie, or could have been food-related. Also, a guy doesn't have to be anywhere near sober to do the deed. Back in my crazy days, I'd do it drunk off my azz, and not even remembering a lot of it the next morning.
My guess here...the "model" was actually a pro, and the coworker and your H paid for her services. Sorry, but your H is FOS.
WS is certainly FOS, but I don't think she was paid. Like I said earlier this group of coworkers he used to travel with had a reputation of hooking up with the models they used for their trip. Now, she might have been a pro on the side given her behavior. Ya, maybe so!
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Re: For the guys here, thoughts? 
Ya, maybe so!
