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Has she cheated or not?

86K views 228 replies 50 participants last post by  jeff_r 
#1 ·
Hello, this is my 1st time posting on any site so I am extremely nervous. I am desperate for some others opinions/advice/experience on my situation. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read my whole dilemma. I greatly appreciate any advice you can give!
My story goes like this -
I married my high school sweetheart 4 years ago. We were not always together but seemed to always have wanted to be. I left our hometown after college to explore the world. We did not keep in touch.
Ran back into her at a wedding ~10 yrs. later and everything seemed to fall in place. My job was flexible so I could relocate back home, she was finishing her Master's w/ a good job lined up. We were both in our late 20's and seemed ready for the next step in life. So we got married. May have been the happiest day of my life so far!
We got a house and were starting to think about starting a family. We have some student loan debt so we decided to hold off a little while on the family to be more stable financially.
My wife had never given me any reasons to question any of her actions until about 4 months after our marriage. She started getting random texts late at night from her Ex (the last guy she dated before we got married).
- sidenote - I found out their ending was not the best scenario as she pretty much left him for me. I was told they were broken up when we met at the wedding and she did not see their relationship continuing in any way. So I was ok asking her out that 1st time. I am very respective of someone's relationship and would not want to be the reason for a break up.
Back to the texts...
I don’t want everyone to think that I was being nosy at this point in our relationship (yet). She had the type of phone that flashes when a new text is there, and the text shows up on the phone's screen until you open it. So I see the name of her Ex and the 1st few lines of the text and decide to open it. It was some lyrics from a country love song. So I asked her about it and she tells me not to worry, he is just heartbroken bc we got married. I told her that I thought it was inappropriate for an Ex to contact her and asked her to nicely ask him to stop. She said she did.
Fast forward to the 7th month of our marriage.
I had been cheated on before so I made a note of that Ex's ph. #. My wife started acting a little distant and strange so I got this painful feeling in my stomach. I had also just been out of town on business for a week during which she did not answer or return some of my calls. So I decided to cross reference the Ex's ph. # on the last month's ph. bill. To my crushing surprise I found out my worse fear. There were hours and hours of conversation. And over 10 hours just in the week I was out of town. I was devastated. I checked back 3 months and saw that activity of long phone conversations started only 3 months after our marriage. Around the same time as those supposedly harmless texts from her Ex started and she supposedly handled!
So now my dilemma began. What do I do? How do I confront her?
I decided to just ask her. But ask in a way that she had to admit to the guilt. So I simply ask: “Do you ever talk to your Ex?" She looked me straight in the eye and says "NO." I am even more devastated! So now she has lied and maybe cheated!
We go to talk it out. I am ready to leave her. I really try to be a good husband. I can be a little nagging because of my OCD (like things neat and clean) but I always put her 1st. So to be lied and cheated on when I carefully waited for the right girl and did not get married until I was absolutely ready and had no desire to be w/ any other women, will not be tolerated!
She bawls her eyes out and tells me how she is just talking to him; never had they had any physical contact during those months of excessive talking. She explains how he is sad and she just feels bad bc of the way she ended it w/ him.
I forgive her and believe her. I love her so much, I was just not ready to give up on what I think could be a great partnership.
Our physical relationship had been falling off and from this point was back to where it was early in our relationship. So I began to gain trust in her again.
Fast forward 14 months.
My wife began to have that same distant behavior as before. We only had sex one or twice a month. My wishes in the marriage were not really being met. I was under the impression that a couple was supposed to work at the marriage to make the other spouse happy. I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc. I search message boards on how to make a marriage work to make sure I am doing the right things and not making my wife NOT want to be w/ me physically. This had gone on for a few months so I started to get that same pain in my gut as i did 14 months ago.
This caused my curiosity to start going crazy. Could she be doing it again? So, against my conscious (I know invading privacy is not conducive to a good marriage), I checked her texts. Amazingly I found just what I was looking for but certainly did not want to see. There were 100's of texts going back and forth w/ that Ex. All of which were very inappropriate for a married woman to have. "I miss you's, good morning babe", etc. I was shaking and did not know what to do. This discovery was around 3 am, so I wasn’t sure if I should wake her or discuss in the morning. I could not sleep anyway so I decided to wake her. As you can imagine she was blindsided by this. Frantically apologized but didn’t really seem sorry. She said it was just fantasy. Blah Blah... I was really ready to call it quits now.
But again, my heart still yearned for her love. I still feel we have such a potential if she would just join my team.
What I have to express is that when my wife is happy she does seem like the perfect fit. She is beautiful, has a great career, comes from a great family and gets along great w/ mine. Why can’t we just be happy together? Why do I seem controlling bc I ask things of her that would make me happy? I would do just about anything she asks me if it made her happy. And I do!
Fast forward 9 months -
Things in our marriage have been up and down. Sometimes they are so great and I feel things are going to be ok, then a fight over something very minute occurs and I am left wondering if we will make it.
So lately I have been having that pain in my stomach again. Our bedroom activity has become very routine and sparse. Maybe once or twice a month and she just seems to be going through the motions.
We have been going out w/ my male friends a lot lately. A lot of drinking and fun ensues. This may seem like things are going great but one recently divorced friend of mine has my suspicions up again. He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (sorry, I'm upset) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude (I am more of a gentle giant).
I hadn’t really thought much of this until about 3 months ago.
We went out for a mutual friend's BDay (female) to a local bar. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary until I started to notice the extended period of time they kept leaving to go smoke cigarettes outside (no smoking inside the bar).
- Sidenote - My wife used to smoke in high school, quit in college but she will still have a cigarette or 2 when she has had some alcoholic drinks. She usually would never have more than 2 as she knows I hate cigarette smoke. But this is one of the other red flags regarding this friend's relationship w/ my wife. None of my other friends smoke so they have bonded w/ it. Every time he is over our house or out w/ us for dinner/drinks (which has been at least once a week for the last 4 months since he divorced) they share nearly a whole pack of cigarettes. More info to come on this scenario and how it’s raised my suspicions this time.
We were at the bar for about 3 hours and they were gone for 30 minutes at a time for at least 4-5 times to smoke. I was even approached by another group of females who were not deterred by my wedding ring during one of their smoke breaks. I was scared my wife was going to come back and catch me talking to them. She isn’t a crazy jealous type but can have some major issues w/ the scenario I was being put in. Luckily the group finally noticed I was married (bc I had to tell them) and left. My wife was gone this whole time so my worry was for not. I even told her I was just about to be picked up by these chicks and she didn’t really seem to care. Oh well, it was nice to know I am still desirable to other women even though I would never cheat! :)
The next red flag came when we had some of my buddies over for dinner and drinks. Another friend came over late and missed dinner so we ordered out to grab him something. The place was w/in walking distance so he and I went to get his food. I left my suspicious friend alone w/ my wife. Like I said, I would never think my wife would be attracted to this guy so I didn’t think much of it at the time, but while I was out getting the food, the weekend out where I noticed the long smoke breaks popped in my head. So I started wondering. Luckily the food was ready very quickly so we were only gone about 15 minutes. Came back home where both my wife and my suspicious friend had been smoking on the back porch, but neither one of them were there. My suspicion went through the roof! I started to go upstairs but came back down to check the bathroom in the hall. When I came back down the stairs the suspicious friend popped out of nowhere in the kitchen. I knocked on the bathroom door after waiting a little while (longer than it should have taken for my wife to do her biz) and asked what she was doing. She seemed guilty but that could have just been my adrenaline. I asked her straight up if she had been in there w/ my friend. She said I was crazy! What I am talking about? I am just drunk!
I let it go.
I did agree w/ her, though. It was crazy for me to think she would like him. Of all my friends, he would probably be my least worry.
But over the last couple of months have continued to notice their growing closer along w/ her increased smoking. She even has started smoking when he is not around. And not only when she is drinking. I confronted her about it and she got extremely defensive w/ me. I let that go as well. I really don’t want to seem controlling.
But their growing relationship got my suspicions up so high I got the idea that maybe I should check the phone bill like I had before w/ my wife's Ex BF. She has no reason to speak on the phone w/ this friend of mine. Outside of my friendship w/ him, he was not her friend. So upon my search I found a 50 minute conversation w/ him from the Monday after the night out for my friend's BDay where the excessive smoke breaks occurred.
I also found a couple other very late night conversations of 15-30 minutes. One 30 min call was on a Saturday night when the guys were over and I had passed out earlier than the rest of the group (had too many drinks, not enough sleep). Isn’t it strange for her to talk on the phone to him at 12:30 am for 30 minutes when I am asleep?
Now this has me feeling exactly the same way as when I caught her talking to her Ex BF in the early stages of our marriage. But even worse is that if my friend is guilty, he has betrayed me too! He is not the greatest friend but 15 years of friendship should count for something, right?
So over the last few days I have been watching her behavior. She is taking her cell everywhere she goes. Turning it off at night for bed. She even has a work cell phone that is always locked and I don’t have the code nor would I need to if she were honest. I think she is using the work phone mostly now bc there are not any records of phone calls to him or anyone suspicious. There is no way for me to monitor that phone, so what better way to keep secrets from me? Do I have the right to ask her to unlock it and let me see the texts and phone calls?
But what I was able to find is that she is texting someone and deleting those texts. My phone's online portal service has the amount of texts sent but does not give any details on to whom or the content of the messages. So I kept count for 1 day. When I looked at her phone, only half of the 48 texts from that day were there. The ones to a girlfriend of hers were there. The last ones of those came at 3:00 pm, but she got 28 or so more after that time in which there were no texts on her phone to account for those texts.
Also she is coming home more and more often smelling like cigarette smoke. I also know she is not buying them bc she does not own any packs. I know she is getting them from someone. But who? Is it really my friend? Is it someone I don’t know?

What do I do? I want to be married, but I also want to be happy!
 
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#3 ·
Yes she cheating.

Now here is what suggest.

1. You need to get and read Married Man Sex Life by Athol. Read it ASAP and learn how your nice guy routine to make her love you more has actually pushed her away and lost her respect.

2. You should have demanded full transparency to her texts and email back with the Ex and especially when you caught her the next and next times. Throw out the stupid idea of having secrets in marriage. You should be able to read any email or text by your spouse at anytime. Because there should never ever be secrets.

3. Use a VAR , voice activate recorder, available Walmart and best buy. Get a couple of them. Put then were she would be calling him from, put one in the house the next day he is supposed to be over and then have an excuse for you to pop out and leave them alone for an hour. Make sure the reason will ensure they know you will be gone for the hour. Maybe you get called into work?

They should be very easy to catch.
 
#5 ·
Gather evidence. Can you put a voice activated recorder around the house where she goes to smoke and talk? maybe in the car? You don't want to confront without absolute proof. She certainly sounds suspicious and there's no good reason for a wife to have conversations at those hours with guy friends. Is the smoking that big of a deal really? I mean she was a smoker when you met her right? Either way, without proof there's no way to confront successfully without getting trickle truth and lies. Don't be surprised if she has been cheating and then tries to blame it on you for not "being there" or some other kind of crap.
 
#9 ·
Thank you for your insight. I really appreciate it. The smoking would not be that big of a deal if it did not directly correlate to the influence my suspicious friend has on her. She also used to be adamantly against smoking bc of the health issues it causes. It is the source of how her attitude and actions are slowly changing. This change represents the actions of another woman, not the one I married.
 
#8 ·
The phone is really a red flag in my opinion, especially given her past behavior.

Your wife has very poor boundaries, at a minimum. And has tendencies of a serial cheater.

The mistake you made was not demanding transparency after the EA (emotional affair) she had with her ex, and believe me, that's what she had. Transparency means she gives up her passwords, unlocks her phone, etc. That's a consequence of her actions. Other than telling her to stop, she had no consequences for this gross infraction on your marriage. Keep checking the phone records, and ask to see her phone. See what she does. It will speak volumes.

And never leave her alone with your 15 year friend again. That was not smart. Your gut is telling you something.
 
#10 ·
I would divorce your wife based on the lack of boundaries alone. She obviously had an emotional affair (EA) with her XBF and you clearly saw evidence of that already with the highly inappropriate texts. Also, he desire for you tanked during this EA and is tanking again. She violated your boundaries with this XBF 2 or 3 times already. She doesn't respect you nor care for you enough to work for this marriage. Unless you live in a state where proof of infidelity will get you something, you have no need to put yourself through all of the time and torture of trying to catch her in another EA or PA. Assuming you live in a no fault state, serve her with the divorce papers and move on.

While this is going on, I would get myself into individual counseling to work on yourself, tone your body if it needs it and do all of those things that will improve your self esteem.

Finally, please recognize that what I suggested above is what I would do for myself. Everyone is different and you need to decide what's best for you.
 
#12 ·
Btw, often women take up smoking again if they are pursuing a smoker. It gives them an excuse to be with them, and in their head makes them more attractive to the OM because they are showing a desire to share his vices.

Also put a var hidden outside at your place where they go to smoke.

They sound like they think you not only have no clue, but that sneaking around with you there adds to the excitement.
 
#14 ·
The first thing I would do is knock the snot out of your "friend." challenge him on why he is having these long cell conversations with your wife. It'll be easier to get the truth out of him (especially if you knock a few of his teeth out first) then yor wife, who will be tap dancing around everything with excuses.

My friends and I have always lived by the belief that you do not mess with each others family members, current wife/girlfriend or exes. This fat boy of yours apparently could care less about you or your relationship.

One question - did you ever confide to him that she was texting,etc her ex? If do, then it appears to me that he targeted her knowing that she may be open to an extramarital affair. Even scarier...
 
#15 ·
I agree.

I would definitly have a little "come to jesus" meeting with the friend.

At first I would try to get as much info from him as possible, then I'd turn and put the fear of god into him, and tell him you WILL find out everything, so if he confesses now, there is a much better chance he won't need a dentist, and trip to the E.R. If you have to come back, you'll be even more pissed!

Either way he is not a friend, and has no more business being involved in your life any longer, and that includes your wife.
 
#92 ·
No an HTC Droid. But her personal phone does not seem to be as telling. I can tell she is deleting texts bc the # of texts listed on the bill does not add up to her texts on the phone. There are many more texts counted than she has on her phone. The details are not on the bill, only the amount of texts sent/rec'd.
But she has a new job and a new work cell. It is locked. I tried one of her usual PW's w no luck. So I am going to gather as much evidence I can w the VARs and then ask to see her work phone if I find anything on the VARs.
 
#23 ·
Here’s my impression:
You are making life too easy for her, she is a bored housewife looking for some "drama" to spice up her life. You’ve become her servant thus she not only doesn’t respect you because you let her walk all over you and give her all she wants, but she thinks you will never leave her so she takes chances with cheating.

Odds are she is cheating and 9 times out of 10 the end up affairing down (meaning that loser is a prime candidate for an AP). Considering she’s been showing inappropriate behavior since you’ve been married there may have been other men that you’ve missed over the years.

Doesn’t look like your W has ever taken your marriage seriously and odds are she never will. Honestly, if you can confirm at least one PA I would call it quits because you are not likely to get her to stop cheating. She doesn’t appreciate you and may even resent you for being so nice to her. FYI you can’t “nice” her back or out of an affair, being nice enables affairs. You also can’t compete with an AP so even trying just makes you look weak.

You may have to play hardball. Whether you want to R or not you still should take the same path or else you will just set yourself up for a false R. Basically confirm an A then drop the hammer and get a lawyer. Don’t fall for her “I’m sorry let’s rug sweep this ok?” like you have done in the past or else you’ll be back here again. She needs to be scared out of her mind that you are going to divorce her and you need to re-evaluate your M and really ask yourself if this is the kind of wife you want. The only way a R will work is if she is BEGGING for it and you are in complete control of yourself. That won't happen until you let her know you are gone for good. She has to prove she is worthy of being your wife.


It’s never too late to start over with someone else.
 
#24 ·
-You are being too nice and too tolerating.
-This leads to her disrespecting you.
-She has poor bounderies and you haven't shown her the proper ones.
-She's definitely cheated on you emotionally. It could be just a matter of time until it becomes physical and the signs are already there.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I confess I did not make it through the entire original post. Mainly becuase I felt I had seen enough.

The fact that you asked her to have no contact with him and later when you were gone you saw they had contact was enough to declare something that was inappropriate was now unfaithful.

So all of the rest of what I did read backed up that she was unfaithful and probably more. But where is your boundary? Her pursuing her ex while you are good would be plenty for me. No kids and already unfaithful? I am moving on. I would need no other investigationg personally.

But determine what you need to know to be able to move on, because yes she cheated on you in the first year of your marriage and was still in contact with her ex before and after your marriage.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I'm going to play this thread straight, but it's probably excessively brutal. Don't get pissed, just read it and listen to yourself.

Tex, it is almost for sure that your wife has committed adultery with both the XBF and your fat friend and probably some others. I would say get a divorce right away, but if you want to try to bring her back into the fold, you need to listen to Shaggy and get Married Man Sex Life, the learn it cover to cover. Your whole approach to women is from a position of weakness. Who makes more you or your wife?

Now read this before we continue: Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

Where do you see yourself on that spectrum? I would place you between the Delta and the Gamma. If your wife sees you that way, and I think she does, she has zero sexual attraction to you.

My job was flexible so I could relocate back home, she was finishing her Master's w/ a good job lined up.
Were you were making more $$ than her at the time?

I found out their ending was not the best scenario as she pretty much left him for me
Were you making more $$ than the XBF?


I don’t want everyone to think that I was being nosy at this point in our relationship (yet).
A man comfortable in his role as leader of the marriage would naturally be nosy. Why the defensive tone?


My wife started acting a little distant and strange ...There were hours and hours of conversation.So I simply ask: “Do you ever talk to your Ex?" She looked me straight in the eye and says "NO."
That's because she's addicted to the brain sex chemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, et al that get released from sex and/or contact with men she is not supposed to be talking to. The taboo attraction is into overdrive. You're getting between your wife and her "crack." Of course, she's going to lie without remorse.


I can be a little nagging because of my OCD (like things neat and clean) but I always put her 1st. So to be lied and cheated on when I carefully waited for the right girl and did not get married until I was absolutely ready and had no desire to be w/ any other women, will not be tolerated!
So why tolerate it? And you keep swallowing. Male neatnicks aren't attractive to most women, anyway.


She bawls her eyes out and tells me how she is just talking to him; never had they had any physical contact during those months of excessive talking....Our physical relationship had been falling off ...
She was getting plenty of more exciting sex from OM, so of course your relationship with her was going to drop off.

My wife began to have that same distant behavior as before. We only had sex one or twice a month...I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc.
Most women are not going to be attracted to a male maid, when they can have sex with a higher value male. She figures you're making a pretty good wife for her, though.

So, against my conscious (I know invading privacy is not conducive to a good marriage), I checked her texts.
Good marriages don't have privacy. Even the open ones don't have privacy until right before they implode.

Amazingly I found just what I was looking for but certainly did not want to see...Frantically apologized but didn’t really seem sorry.
Why should she be sorry? After all, it was the best sex she'd ever had. This is true no matter who the OM is. The fact she's cuckolding you makes it the sweetest for her.


She is beautiful, has a great career, comes from a great family and gets along great w/ mine. Why can’t we just be happy together? ...I would do just about anything she asks me if it made her happy. And I do!
No, you don't. If that were true, you'd quit trying to mess with her relationships with her BFs.

Our bedroom activity has become very routine and sparse. Maybe once or twice a month and she just seems to be going through the motions.!
Women lose all respect for their cuckold husbands and a loss of respect means a loss of sexual attraction.

We have been going out w/ my male friends a lot lately. A lot of drinking and fun ensues..one recently divorced friend of mine has my suspicions up again. He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (sorry, I'm upset) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude
I'm sure she is attracted to that attitude, assuming she's a woman, of course. It doesn't matter what he looks like, if he has game. Since he seduced your wife right under your nose, he's got plenty of game. Your WW swallows everything he puts out. You, on the other hand, don't have a clue. This makes OM incredibly attractive, even if he's a little round troll.

(I am more of a gentle giant).
Really? What's your BF%?

I hadn’t really thought much of this until about 3 months ago.
We went out for a mutual friend's BDay (female) to a local bar. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary until I started to notice the extended period of time they kept leaving to go smoke cigarettes outside (no smoking inside the bar).
As you note in your full post, they are bonding over sex plus their addiction. This makes things even harder. All the pleasure centers are being fired up by OM, you are just a drag and a killjoy.


I was even approached by another group of females who were not deterred by my wedding ring during one of their smoke breaks.
The ring is what attracted them to you in the first place. You were "pre-approved" and the ring proclaimed it. Women take their attraction cues from other women.

I was scared my wife was going to come back and catch me talking to them....I even told her I was just about to be picked up by these chicks and she didn’t really seem to care.
You really are under your WW's thumb. You missed a golden opportunity to demonstrate your attractiveness to your wife and show yourself to be a high value male and you blew it. Your wife didn't care because she didn't believe you. You repel her with your Omega male behavior towards her, so she cannot believe for one second that another woman would find you attractive.


I left my suspicious friend alone w/ my wife.
Why would you do this, unless it was specifically arranged to walk in on them. Do you have cuckold fantasies?


Like I said, I would never think my wife would be attracted to this guy so I didn’t think much of it at the time,
Really? After all the smoke breaking and carrying on?

but while I was out getting the food, the weekend out where I noticed the long smoke breaks popped in my head... neither one of them were there... I asked her straight up if she had been in there w/ my friend. She said I was crazy! What I am talking about? I am just drunk!
I let it go.
And your sex rank continued it's descent to -10.

I did agree w/ her, though. It was crazy for me to think she would like him...He is not the greatest friend but 15 years of friendship should count for something, right?
It counts for a lot. Especially for your friend, since you're letting him carry on with your wife. You're a great friend.

So over the last few days I have been watching her behavior. She is taking her cell everywhere she goes. Turning it off at night for bed. She even has a work cell phone that is always locked and I don’t have the code nor would I need to if she were honest...Do I have the right to ask her to unlock it and let me see the texts and phone calls?
Yes, you have every right to leisurely examine both phones to your heart's content.


But what I was able to find is that she is texting someone and deleting those texts.

Also she is coming home more and more often smelling like cigarette smoke.

What do I do?
Tell her to bring her boyfriend over tonight so you can listen to the action and you'll fix them breakfast in bed tomorrow.

Now that's all pretty harsh and infuriating, but you're not even in the game, other than playing the waterboy.

Divorce her yesterday and move on.
 
#97 ·
I'm going to play this thread straight, but it's probably excessively brutal. Don't get pissed, just read it and listen to yourself.

"Tex, it is almost for sure that your wife has committed adultery with both the XBF and your fat friend and probably some others. I would say get a divorce right away, but if you want to try to bring her back into the fold, you need to listen to Shaggy and get Married Man Sex Life, the learn it cover to cover. Your whole approach to women is from a position of weakness. Who makes more you or your wife?"

I have looked up that book and will take Shaggy's advice.
I do see that alot of what I do makes me look weak, when all I thought I was doing was being a good husband. I feel like my parents did a great job raising me w/ an understanding that a marriage is a team effort. They were honest w/ me that its not easy and has to be worked on to be successful. I realize they probably hid some issues, no one is prefect. But they are still happily married after 40 yrs. I took their queues and followed what I thought would make a good marriage like they have had.

I make ~$80,000 and she makes ~$100,000.

Now read this before we continue: Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

"Where do you see yourself on that spectrum? I would place you between the Delta and the Gamma. If your wife sees you that way, and I think she does, she has zero sexual attraction to you."

I did read it. My problem seems to be that I was in a lower level, but moved up w/ the luck of genetics and nature.
Most of my life (under 20 yrs old) I was definitely in the Delta realm and maybe even Gamma. I was a late bloomer but still played sports and hung around w/ the popular group in school. I was always friend zone level 9000 w/ the prettiest girls, though. I always became friends w/ them bc if I could not date them, I could at least hang around them. (very pathetic, I know).
But around age 20/21 my body's testosterone must have kicked in or something. I was always a big guy (5'9"/230) but more bulky than cut. I have always ran and lifted weights to keep in shape but didnt learn how important my diet was until my mid 20's. Around my 21st BDay, girls started hitting on me. Not just the 3rd tier girls I was used to, but 8's, 9's, and 10's. This was a very new experience for me. Bc on the outside my body was changing but on the inside I still felt like that chubby kid that was not in the same league as the girls I wanted to date.
I ended up growing 4 inches over 2 yrs and dropped about 20lbs of excess weight.
Although this change was definitely a blessing, I vowed to not be a ********* bc of it. I had a lot of friends who dogged girls and I just didnt have the heart to be like that.
So to answer you the question, I think other people see me as an Alpha but I am more confortable being the Beta and probably have the heart of a Delta. I am realizing now, this Nice guy approach is wrong. I thought I could beat the old saying "Nice guys always finish last", boy was I wrong!

"Were you were making more $$ than her at the time?"

Yes but she was in school not working.

"Were you making more $$ than the XBF?"

Not sure of his financial situation.


"A man comfortable in his role as leader of the marriage would naturally be nosy. Why the defensive tone?"

I wasn't trying to sound defensive. I believe there should be no secrets in a marriage, so if I am secretly checking my wife's phone I am breaking my own rules.


"That's because she's addicted to the brain sex chemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, et al that get released from sex and/or contact with men she is not supposed to be talking to. The taboo attraction is into overdrive. You're getting between your wife and her "crack." Of course, she's going to lie without remorse."



"So why tolerate it? And you keep swallowing. Male neatnicks aren't attractive to most women, anyway."




"She was getting plenty of more exciting sex from OM, so of course your relationship with her was going to drop off."


"Most women are not going to be attracted to a male maid, when they can have sex with a higher value male. She figures you're making a pretty good wife for her, though."

I did not present my issue w/ the house work very well. As a bachelor who lived alone for 10 yrs. I developed a certain level of neatness and organization. No dishes in the sink, switch out the laundry in a timely manner (dont let wet clothes sit and get moldy), dont throw dirty clothes on the floor, etc. We argue bc she does not keep up w/ even half of my expectations in the cleaning dept. I dont want to depict her as dirty bc she is not. Just not as OCD on the aspects of cleaning as I am. I do realize this and to avoid fighting I do all my own laundry now. If she ruins her clothes, thats fine. We do fight over dishes in the sink, but these are just being lazy. (the worst is the PB knife. She will make a snack w/ Peanut Butter and leave the used knife in the sink to dry and get stuck on the knife). I dont mind doing the dishes, just not every day. Just want a little help. I do things I do not like to do to make her happy, she rarely reciprocates!

"Good marriages don't have privacy. Even the open ones don't have privacy until right before they implode."



"Why should she be sorry? After all, it was the best sex she'd ever had. This is true no matter who the OM is. The fact she's cuckolding you makes it the sweetest for her."




"No, you don't. If that were true, you'd quit trying to mess with her relationships with her BFs."


"Women lose all respect for their cuckold husbands and a loss of respect means a loss of sexual attraction."



"I'm sure she is attracted to that attitude, assuming she's a woman, of course. It doesn't matter what he looks like, if he has game. Since he seduced your wife right under your nose, he's got plenty of game. Your WW swallows everything he puts out. You, on the other hand, don't have a clue. This makes OM incredibly attractive, even if he's a little round" troll.

I will agree w/ you she is attracted to the attitude, but I promise you my friend has no game. I would not put it past my wife to have suggested it to him and she is so hot he could not refuse no matter what the consequences. But we are giving my friend way to much credit.


"Really? What's your BF%?"



"As you note in your full post, they are bonding over sex plus their addiction. This makes things even harder. All the pleasure centers are being fired up by OM, you are just a drag and a killjoy."




"The ring is what attracted them to you in the first place. You were "pre-approved" and the ring proclaimed it. Women take their attraction cues from other women."


"You really are under your WW's thumb. You missed a golden opportunity to demonstrate your attractiveness to your wife and show yourself to be a high value male and you blew it. Your wife didn't care because she didn't believe you. You repel her with your Omega male behavior towards her, so she cannot believe for one second that another woman would find you attractive."




"Why would you do this, unless it was specifically arranged to walk in on them. Do you have cuckold fantasies?"


I definitely have no cuckold fantasies as you have mentioned a couple of times. It was more of blind confidence that nothing could never happen. I was pretty confident in my marriage despite the past. I wanted to believe my wife and move past her mistakes 2 years ago.
I also was blindly confident that my friend's fear of what I would do to him (ass beating) plus the fact his recent ex-wife cheated on him to end their marriage so I thought he would undertsand 1st hand what that does to someone. I still have no proof although there are many signs. So until I can get the proof I need that he is definitely the OM, I cant be sure.


"Really? After all the smoke breaking and carrying on?"



"And your sex rank continued it's descent to -10."



"It counts for a lot. Especially for your friend, since you're letting him carry on with your wife. You're a great friend."



"Yes, you have every right to leisurely examine both phones to your heart's content."




"Tell her to bring her boyfriend over tonight so you can listen to the action and you'll fix them breakfast in bed tomorrow.

Now that's all pretty harsh and infuriating, but you're not even in the game, other than playing the waterboy.

Divorce her yesterday and move on.
"
 
#27 ·
Having read the entire story and the ensuing comments,my feeling is that your wife is addicted to the " bad boy " type.

Some women get weak in the knees for men like that. You call yourself the
" gentle giant ". She is not sexually attracted to that.

My feeling is that her ex bf was a " jerk" but she was hopelessly addicted to him. She really was not mature enough for marriage.

Even if you decide to " man up" and stop being so nice to her, the sex will improve for a while but she will still stray.
You cannot continue living your life like this,looking for evidence and getting that sickening feeling in your gut.

She is not remorseful,and over the years she has continued in her cheating ways.
If it were me in that situation,I would tell her to pack her bags and leave tomorrow. No begging ,no crying,

Just go.
 
#28 ·
Be very thankful you don't have children yet.

I am sorry but you don't spend 15-30 min phone calls, regular, with a man that is not your friend and never was. As you say, she has no reason to chat with him, he is 'your friend', not hers. Even if he was originally her friend, men don't talk on the phone like that. I don't talk to any of my male friends for that time, it is business only. 'How's it going? Fancy meeting up? Where? When? Cool, see you then' All done in about 10 mins tops and that is only before a meet up which is rare. She is cheating and has cheated. Sorry.

You need to think about your next step now and accept she is not what you thought she was. She never will be. You have caught her red handed on more than one occasion and she's carried on. She won't change.
 
#29 ·
  • She lied to you from the beginning; you were the OM and didn't even know it.
  • She's been in contact with her ex since shortly after the beginning of the marriage.
  • She never really got over her ex
  • Only married 4 years
  • No children yet

Run TexasCat10! Run!

OM will always be there if you stay with her.
 
#31 ·
I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc. I search message boards on how to make a marriage work to make sure I am doing the right things and not making my wife NOT want to be w/ me physically.
You must have been reading some womanized board. There is a lot more than that to being a "good husband", that i'm going to interpret as a guy a woman wants to be with, instead of a "good husband" who does as he is told while his wife cheats on him.

He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (sorry, I'm upset) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude (I am more of a gentle giant).
See my avatar? Here, let me magnify for you:



Do you get it?
 
#38 ·
You must have been reading some womanized board. There is a lot more than that to being a "good husband", that i'm going to interpret as a guy a woman wants to be with, instead of a "good husband" who does as he is told while his wife cheats on him.



See my avatar? Here, let me magnify for you:



Do you get it?
I just want to hug that big dog. :D
 
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