DawnD

OP -- have you stopped any and all contact with the OW? If you have not, then you are not stopping anything, you are pausing. Completely different.

I do not recall blaming your wife for your affair, so I am not quite sure how to answer that comment. But you do seem to put a lot of emphasis about you two being young and immature when you married. Yes, you were. BOTH of you were young and immature, and its not exactly the mature responsible thing to go out and start an affair, so perhaps instead of looking at your wife, you need to start looking at yourself. There is way too much focus on your wife, what she has done wrong, and how it is semi-happy. There is NO mention of your failures in the relationship. Did it ever occur to you that maybe when your wife got aloof and stopped caring, that you were not meeting her needs and she detached? You avoid taking any part of the breakdown, which won't get you anywhere.

You have shown that you can not end contact(ALL CONTACT) with the OW on your own. Every time you two tried, you ended up back together. Without exposing yourself to you wife and seeing the damage you caused, the first time you get frustrated with your wife or your marriage, you will go squirming back to the OW. You probably already know this.

You want to willfully make a choice, by denying your wife the truth and manipulating her response. That is what you want? Manipulating the facts of your marriage so you can play your wife into staying with you? Silly me, I thought you wanted to build a better marriage with her, not use her as a puppet by only feeding her the information YOU want her to know.

DG3

My husband was cheating on me for 6 years. He also blamed it on other issues instead of just taking the rap for it. He said it was because we had three kids, I stayed at home, it was boring, blah blah blah. So he found someone new who was exciting and shiny new. She made him feel like a wanted man. What he didn't care to think about was me...his wife...at home raising his three sons, cooking, cleaning and feeling worn out and lonely. I was so lonely but I didn't cheat. So I found out about his affair and we are amazingly still together. We decided to work on our marriage and I am happy to report we have found a completely new relationship was waiting to be discovered. We have fun now, we spend time on us. No it's not easy. I have a major freak out session occasionally. But staying was the best choice for us. I do have to say though, she needs to know. She needs to be allowed to make the decision like I did. She may not stay with you. Give her the chance to fix what is lacking. You need to fix what is lacking on your end. I'm sure you are fulfilling NONE of her needs. What are her needs, do you even know? Find out. The other woman needs to go. You need time away to find out who you really are and what you want. I feel so bad for your wife being left in the dark like I was. It's just not right. Please do the right thing. You claim to have love for your wife. Well show it. Please!

DG3

d) Permanently breakup with OW. Come clean with wife and no trickle truth. Face yourself and work on changing who you are. Put as much time and effort into your wife as you have put into your mistress. Put as much time and effort into yourself and being the kind of man you want to be (the man who honors his promises and isn't "the kind of man" to cheat...who protects his kids and his family). Work on your marriage and building the love you want with your wife. Change your focus from "getting your needs met" to doing what you vowed to do, namely spending the rest of your life learning to be a husband to your wife that makes her a better woman.

BE THAT GUY!! [/QUOTE]

Thank you for this. This is EXACTLY what my husband did when I found out about his affair. That is EXACTLY why we are still married, still a family and we share an amazing bond, and amazing relationship filled with laughter and respect. We discovered a new relationship and we have never been happier. We feel like we climbed a mountain and accomplished something so amazing. If my husband would have done anything other than what you wrote we would be a divorced family.

alte Dame

Richard,

You seem to think that you are in a position to unilaterally decide how your wife will live her life. Saying that you want to do what's right for your family & coming clean will be too destructive and hurtful is just an excuse. What you're really afraid of is being the obvious cause of the hurt, being the bad guy. It's all about you.

But your wife gets a vote. You need to grow up and give her one. Show her the respect she's earned by sticking with you all these years. Listen to Affaircare's advice and go with option D - tell your wife the truth & try to do the right thing from here on out. You can't control what will happen, but you can do your best.

happyman64

Actually Richard can't control the outcome but he can certainly control his actions and behavior.

And he can most certainly show respect to his wife and marriage by being Honest for the 1st time in 4 years.

It would be a start.......

DawnD

I am glad you posted this. I am of the belief that OP wants to keep his "secret" from his wife as a convenient out. I have already expressed that without telling her the truth, he will not be able to close the space between them. The guilt will come between, only she won't know that is what it is. So then after he feels that he gave it the "good ole college try" he can leave and say it was all because they couldn't connect. his refusal to accept that this lie will only deepen the disconnect between them is because he truly feels it is his wife's responsibility to connect to him, not the other way around.

sandc

I couldn't read the whole thread because of so many of the long dissertations on it. However, I'm assuming this is a PA and not just an EA.

Richard, have you given any thought to what may happen if OW's husband finds out? What if he discovers what's going on and tells your wife? What if he wants to beat the crap out of you or worse what if he wants to ruin your career?

The status quo may change before you are ready for it...

__________________
From the desk of The Wrathful Lieutenant Vernon Thunderskull

Thinking of having an affair? Please think again.

alte Dame

DawnD: Yes, think OP seems to definitely want an out. I kind of think he sees himself as an overwhelmed chess master who's made some unwise moves in a very tragic game. He's in the last phases and is desperately trying to recover from a board that's set up against him. An out that doesn't finger him as the guy that lost the game is preferable to him. Seems very human to not want to be the bad guy, but he can't control everything & certainly imo doesn't have the right to direct his wife's life.

Acabado

I just wants to point out the exteme form of emotional abuse you are inflicting to your wife the last four years. You are now too self centered to realize it (I hope). Having all your "needs" met with your cake eating (by BW plus OW) but at the same time complaining about your "needs not met" by your BW, demanding her to improve herself towards you while f0cking around. Including 2 separation in which she doesn't know what the hell is happening here. She has no idea she's competing with an "ideal", she's blamed for her husband unhappiness ,she blames herself for always falling short, for not trying hard enough. What a mindf0ckery. She surely has made a HUGE effort if you are even willing to acknowledge it because your stardars are totally unreachable (luuurv of your life in the wings, 100 % needs met). And if you believe for a minute the mere fact you are cheating (coping with cognitive dissonance, ego protection) don't affect the way you perceive and treat your BW you are lying yourself like a pro. You have to; 4 years of cheating are too much to rationalize the lack of integrity (Of course OW is the love of your life, otherwise who you are?).
Meanwhile obviously you do nothing to meet her needs. You become a pure taker. It's all about you. You are all complains. Poor woman. Every body her know trying to win back your WS while the affair is ongoing is futile, MC are a waste while an active affair, many profesionals even rejects active cheaters as clients. The's the reason people suggest to kill the affiar first. She never had a chance. Never.
Google gaslighting. It's major abuse. She's playing this game with an just arm, with different rules. So unfair.

Many, many betrayed had to suffer it while in the dark but for years? Good Lord.

__________________
Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos

Affaircare

On a somewhat lighter--and shorter --note, I ran across this article today and thought it was relevant to the conversation:

"Do Cheats Ever End Well?"

I believe the person who wrote the letter ("Am I Kidding Myself") is asking basically the same question Mr. Collier is here. I note that there are 728 reader comments at the time I post this, and of those 728 probably 720 are saying "No it doesn't end well" and that's not because we are being "unobjective." It's because we are trying to forewarn you--affairs do not end well. It is exceedingly, extremely rare and there's about a 99.99% chance you will NOT be the exception!!!

Anyway...enjoy the little article

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

ObjectOfAffection

I've been lurking on these forums for awhile, and was finally inspired to post based on the types of people who had responded already. Let's add one more - Someone who had an affair, and after d-day chose to D rather than R (even though my husband offered to try R).

No one on this board can make the decision for you (obviously), but I wanted to share my experience in broad terms.

When I read your original post it was all very familiar, I could have written it myself (except I have no children). I fell in love with another person, and couldn't decide whether to stay or go. My marriage had lacked passion, and I was neither happy nor unhappy in it. Being in an affair brought all the negative aspects of my marriage to the forefront of my mind.

Prior to D-Day I obsessively read this website and others, collecting all the information I could. I was aware of the fog and scared to death that my feelings about my marriage were all just a chemically induced illusion. I was afraid that leaving my husband would be the biggest mistake of my life, and I was hoping to find some magic cure all that could fix the mess I'd made of everything.

After D-day my affair was exposed to my close family and our joint friends. Since then, I have also freely told all of my close personal friends the entire story. The response from my family and friends has all been the same - though they were rightfully disappointed in me having an affair, no one was surprised that I was divorcing.

Basically, my mother and the people closest to me had been worried about me for the last 2 years, because I always seemed mildly depressed (side note: my affair was only 2 months long). My best friend said she felt like I'd gone into hibernation, waiting for something to kick start my life again. I was not happy with my marriage, and in my case, it wasn't just the affair fog rewriting my history.

Maybe my ex and I could have fixed the problems in our marriage if I had been able to recognize my own unhappiness sooner, but because of my selfish decisions, divorce became the best option. He will be able to find a woman who will love him like he deserves (and like I never did). And I won't be coasting through life in a relationship that neither makes me happy nor terribly unhappy. I live by myself now, and I'm spending a lot of time rediscovering who I am, and who I want to be. I deeply regret the pain I caused, but I do not regret getting divorced.

I've been rambling a bit, but I guess my point is that if you are going to end your marriage, it should not be for your AP. If your AP drops dead the day after your divorce is finalized, would you still think you made the right decision in getting divorced?

Alternatively, I agree with other posters that if you choose to stay, you should tell your wife about the affair. You'll need to to go to MC and IC and figure out what needs your AP was fulfilling that your marriage was not, and work on your relationship with your wife as a team. How can you heal the relationship that you've already broken otherwise? Also, unless you address the issues, you are leaving yourself primed for another affair later down the road.

In fact, you should probably start IC right now (if you haven't already).

happyman64

Thanks for the link AffairCare. Really good article.

babymama3

Hmmm...so many negative responses. Here in the real world, these things do happen. I don't judge. But it sounds like things are really coming to a head in your heart, and you need to make a decision. Is your mistress okay remaining just that? What about telling your wife how much you love her and want to stay with her and preserve your marriage for the sake of the kids and finances, but also tell her about your mistress. Let her make the decision. If my husband came to me with this info. I would in all likelihood let him have a mistress. As long as it didn't interfere with our day-to-day raising the kids. Hope this pickle works itself out with the least pain to your wifey. Good luck!

Emerald

Forgive me if this has been covered or discussed - have not read all the replies.

I am putting myself in your wife's shoes. I haven't been a great wife for a long time but lately have been trying to be better because maybe:

I know about hubs affair or
I can feel him pulling away or
I have done some research/counseling/read books on how to be a better wife or
"insert anything here."

Do I want to know about hubs 4-yr. affair? Yes
Do I have the right to know? Yes

From what I have read Richard, all your scenarios are about you & your children. Why are you not confessing your A to your wife right now?

Allow your wife the dignity of helping you make the "big choice."

RichardCollier

In attempt to give a final rundown (in efforts to avoid further redundancy) I will try to explain in a final Q&A format that sums up my feelings of the situation:

1) Does my wife have a RIGHT to know? Yes.
2) Does that mean my wife SHOULD know? Debatable.

EleGrl has also stated there are arguments to both sides of this debate. It can be as tricky as pro abortion vs. anti abortion.

3) Is my wife making changes to make our marriage better? Yes.

It didn't require her being witness to an affair to shake things up. Me moving out of the house is what finally told her I was serious about not tolerating the situation without some changes.

4) Is the affair primarily (or majority) my wife's fault? No.
5) Is the affair a sliver of my wife's fault? No.
6) Did my wife contribute to the animosity and resentment that led to me feeling I no longer care or value the relationship? Yes.
7) Is she most to blame for this? No. I would say it was near 50/50.
8) Have I made positive changes to make things better at home? Yes, but only slightly. I cannot make a "180 degree" turnaround as long as I'm in love with (or desire to be with) OW.
9) Am I open to making very strong committed changes to make the marriage the best it can be. Yes - if I am able to "see the light" and make the choice to stay home with the wife and family. I am also willing to visit MC and/or IC if it needs to get that far. If I am 100% on board with my wife and family I actually DO feel I will be capable of addressing my wife's needs cordially and make great improvements. If I sense either of us are slipping, I would immediately promote going to counseling.
10) If things get rough or unpleasant at home will I fall back into having an affair again? No. Absolutely not. I have already come to the crossroads of being disgusted with myself for being a cheater. Initially the attraction grew under the radar without either of us knowing it. Eventually it led to the discovery of emotional attachment, and snowballed from there. I also recognize the addictive nature of it, but I am very confident I am over the cheating. I have no desire to do that again.

I'm not addicted to the "cheating" or the "affair", but I was/am addicted to the OW. The OW is also completely on board with no longer cheating and living an honest & faithful life. Both of us still prefer & wish it could be with each other. I have discussed all the negatives with her today (we work together), and I believe she is also coming to the same conclusion the likelihood of us having success even if we divorce our spouses is very minimal.

Neither of us have a desire to cheat on our spouses any longer. Either we live honestly & faithfully with our spouses, or each other. Plain and simple.

11) Does the OW have any resentment towards me if we don't end up together? Yes, and no. The first time I attempted to leave (but recanted) she did. She was very hurt and devastated by it (and so was I). But now we have both are in a state where we have nearly surrendered to the reality of the unlikely situation things could possibly work out for us in the end. AffairCair gave EXCELLENT insight on the unknown HIDDEN costs (and damages) most people don't realize when going into such a situation. I believe I sort of "sensed" the danger of some of these problems lurking in the air... and just maybe that 6th sense of that (along with the wrongness and unfairness towards our spouses and children) were enough for me to snap back and not leave.

12) So OP "snapped out of it" and slipped back into affair mode. What's to stop OP and OW from doing that again? Plain and simple... we are both DONE being in limbo. We are DONE feeling awful for cheating. We are both ready to live an honest WHOLE life rather than 2 halves. While I cannot speak for her, I can speak for myself. I will NEVER CHEAT on my spouse ever again. I will constructively try my hardest to solve any problems. If I cannot solve them myself I will demand we go to counseling. If counseling doesn't work, then my next step will be to either separate or to live with mediocrity (assuming that is even an issue at that point).

13) Won't the guilt interfere with my capability of stepping up fully to the plate to be a great husband? I honestly do not believe so. I have always known my wife never DESERVED to be cheated on. It was a self-serving choice, and only spun out of control because of the intense high-passion & addictive nature of the attachment. If it was just a casual physical fling, or even a GF-type closeness it would not have gone on for 4 years. I completely realize the RELATIONSHIP aspect of our relationship to be somewhat "fantasy" because we both lacked the negatives of a real 24/7 situation. We were not exposed to each other's nagging bad habits. We were not exposed to life's daily problems. Etc., etc. I totally realize this. However, the INTERACTION aspect between us was completely out of this world... and if we were both single I would have likely proposed marriage to this woman within months (and not a decade like both our spouses in mine/her respective relationships).

14) By not telling my spouse, isn't she herself living a false lie? Absolutely Not. Ever since I moved out, the "old/previous" marriage sort of "died". She has already made great strides in improving things in effort to keep me very happy. And I've gotta acknowledge this. There is no doubt. Likewise, I know if I choose to be with my wife and kids, I will not just do it for the mindselt "to spare the kids & keep the "family" together. It would be more because I have surrendered hope the relationship between the OW and myself can reasonably work out in our favor.

And... because I refuse to live in a "semi-happy" state any longer I too can step up to the plate to make my wife's happiness a priority. Again... if we are both able to solve these things without counseling, great. If things don't work (or slip back to normal bad patterns), I will immediately recognize this and DO something about it.

So, in essence...

BOTH my wife and myself led into selfish immature "game playing" actions that led to the destruction of our relationship. I'm absolutely certain nearly ALL couples go through all types of psychological games (i.e., the "silent treatment" game... the "witholding sex & affection" game... the "staying really late at work" game... the "upping the ante on teaching lessons" game, etc.). Every game you can think of, my wife and I probably made it. Instead of teaching lessons it only fed into resentment and regret... to the point of INDIFFERENCE. Once that point was reached (of indifference), you would be very surprised how EASY it became to do the unthinkable... including having an emotional & physical affair.

Moving foward...

Assuming my wife was also only "semi-happy" these past several years, if I return home with an attitude I'm "ALL - IN" in making the marriage the very best possible and my attitude... love... and affection... sexual drive... etc... you name it is all showered on my wife (and not split between BS and OW), I can only imagine the hapiness my wife would feel would receive a huge morality boost. At least I hope it would.

I think we both have learned the games not to play by now. If we are both fully satisfied and content with the way things are progressing, great. No need to go to counseling. If they are still unsatisfactory (or slipping downhill), then counseling is mandatory.

I know for certain I do not need counseling to prevent further cheating. I have absolutely NO DESIRE to cheat. My wife and I never had the special connection on the passion/romance side. Our connection was more built on mutual interests and the children we are raising together. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE!!! My wife and I need to have a special connection together for this to really work out. My wife needs to become my girlfriend again (and not just housemaid and mother). We both need to set time aside so we can be together as a couple (and not just parents to our children).

I do believe, with this mindset, my wife and I have an excellent chance at achieving something possibly close (interaction/passion/connection-wise) to what the OW and I have experienced. If I choose to stay with my wife that will be my willfull choice.

If my wife grows fonder... happier... and stronger (and more secure) in our relationship... and since I will never cheat on my wife again... and in time if we can both "fuel each other's fire" through the remaining years... I do not see any advantage to pull the rug under her feet and emotionally traumatize her.

Yes, I am making that choice FOR her. By keeping this a secret it's partially for my advantage (even at the cost of living with guilt for the rest of my life), and it's certainly VERY MUCH for our children's advantage (no question about it). Also, I feel it's in my wife's advantage providing there are no further episodes of anything secretive. If I happen to make another slip-up down the road (which I won't... that's a given), but hypothetically speaking IF that happened IMO that is the only reason why it may have been beneficial to disclose the ugly affair.

Obviously... MOST people would feel they would want to know. But I do know my wife better than the strangers on this board, and in her case she is better off not knowing (and would honestly prefer not knowing). In contrast, the OW would absolutely want to know everything that happened. But these two women have completely different personalities.

Anyway, I said my peace. The good news to all of this is from this point forward there is no cheating going on. And very soon a final decision will be made to the path I end up taking. It was great to meet all (correction... SOME) of you.

AffairCair: I will surely reply to your post as soon as I can! I've been very busy at work today. It will likely be a bulletin board post, but might be in a PM instead.

I haven't decided if I should keep this thread open to share the truthful news how things play out in this real-life drama or not. Given the amount of time and effort so many posters offered me I feel very compelled to keep this "family" in the loop on things.

As angry I am with some of the posters, I must say I am both shocked and impressed with the sheer amount of time and heartfelt effort many people spilled out... in their posts & letters in efforts to save me from making a potentially big mistake. I truly appreciate everything that was said, but please also understand this is my life to live and I do need to carve things out my own way... even if it ends being a big mistake it is something I will have to live with (not you guys).