I am in the shock phase. I appreciate your perspectives.
Yesterday I found out that my wife of 6 years and best friend of 2 years had crossed the line of friendship into affection.
This is devastating on so many levels.
This story is complicated so I will try for succinct phrasing. I apologize in advance for not knowing the shorthand for all of this.
Paraphrased: My wife and (ex) best friend were both fired yesterday from a company that the (ex) best friend’s brother owns. We are all married respectively and were friends up to this point; vacationed together, hang out weekends etc.
In short, the brother found compromising IM's between my wife and (ex) best friend incriminating the two of them in concocting this flirtatious alternate reality where they would joke about ending up together, compliments etc. a slew of things that are clearly crossing the boundary.
My (ex) best friend’s wife works there as well and was best friends with my wife as well as a new mother of my (ex) best friend’s child.
The brother made my (ex) best friend come clean to his wife and my wife came clean with me later that evening when I got home from work. I spoke to the brother later to verify the events.
Their selfish actions have devastated my life, my poor (ex) best friend’s wife, destroyed friendships and at the least harmed the brother who lost his two best employees
Nothing short of a monumental F. up
Background: We are all in our early thirties, all married several years, normal lives, good jobs, no substance abuse or strange behavior or lifestyle choices.
Wife(we) have fertility issues so for the past several years we have been focusing on that and it has been very tough emotionally and fairly tough financially.
All around, and someone will call me on this later, we have had a very good healthy relationship. We had been friends in school and in our late teens we both came out of unhealthy relationships and found each other. We talked about how to build a strong foundation and agreed to open communication, financial strength, no cussing at each other etc. After a few years of dating and engagement, we married and started our lives together. We worked hard, had a healthy relationship, attended church with some frequency and for all intents and purposes seemed to be laying the groundwork for a solid relationship.
Here is where the damage multiplier comes in. This is not her first time doing this to me. She was involved with a coworker/boss several years ago just 8 months into our marriage. I dealt with it as constructively as possible and really tried to facilitate the healing. Months went by, things got better, and she did a lot to help rebuild our relationship. I could probably be a little guilty of “sweeping”
Now several years later it is hell’s Groundhog Day but this time my (ex) best friend is involved.
So now I feel like I’m left to decide our fate and what could she say to me that I could believe?
How can I feel or know she is truly sorry?
when should we seek marital counseling?
Does she have some latent psychological issues related to her childhood abuse that gives her this trouble with boundaries and affection for “authority” figures?
I have no answers. Trying to work through the emotions…. Again.
Will kane I don't know if the OM's wife knows about the 40 min conversation today. I guess I'll tell her.
Acabado - your advise is good. thanks. what is "taylor the 180"?
JCD - I was in the room when she had the convo with MIL.
JCD - I think you are spot on.
I told her that last time I didn't do the right things and wasn't going to sweep it this time.
More breaking info the OM, my ex best friend called to apologize and say he was a piece of sht. says I never did anything to deserve it and I treated him like a brother (thanks for the reminder)
I said OK.
another interesting note, the Father of the OM was informed somehow and texted my wife to leave their family alone and he knew she wasn't right somehow and he liked an respected me and we should get counseling. that was before the conversation I had with my wife today about her feelings which she now states as her turning point.... funny I don't remember it like that. and she sent OM a text not exactly saying "I am done because I love my husband" more of "this could never be now so we are done".
not really comforting and making me decision that much more resolute.
WOW.
btw. thank you all for your commitment to this forum and other peoples problems. it is needed and appreciated.
Seriuosly!!!??? This alone is reason enough to throw her sorry ass out! She is still in a fog and not serious about making things right. You may want to consider separation. You should ask her for her phone and tell her you'll give it back to her when she behaves like an adult.
Find out when this started. Check the phone bill for the past months.
Why is important to know ehether the kisses or had sex? Becuase she has to face the music, she has to come clean, she can't afford to have secrets you are not aware of, secrets between them. Secrets have power, kills intimathy. She has to destroy those compartiments she loves to have in her head.
It will be healing for her.
This is the 180: The 180 degree rules
What I said is you don't necessarily have to follow the rules to a T. Some of them can make "in house" situations more volatile. IT's a toll to detach, to take a few steps back from the source of pain, to have space to think more clearly. It's a tool to self improvement.
The thing is you need to think hard what are your boundaires and dealbreakers, to need to lay the lay just for not filing inmediatelty. You tell her, you make your demands from a position of strenght then you watch for a while if she's consistently following them and behaving in a way you can consider any kind of reconciliation.
Marriage is on hold until further advice.
Another thing is if ILs are not aware you have to inform them WW is a serial cheater, she already did the same very early into the marriage (sha can't say she was sick of your shortcomings as that happened in the honeymoon phase). Tell them it's a patern. This time jeopardized his job, betrayed her employer, her best friend and you, f0cked up a very good friendship and is likely destroying two marriages.
My suggestion of the polygraph is to help find out how deep this has gone, because you need to know the full extent if you are going to even attempt to R. Otherwise you won't be working on the real issues with the real facts.
The 40 min phone call is worrying. They could have planned so many things.(Matching up affair stories, planning to take the affair underground while lying low for a while, agreeing on the confession etc.) And next time she won't use the home phone.
Thank you for the kind words and suggestions. I absolutely agree that my wife she never contact your family and appreciate your help in this matter.
That being said, it takes two to tango and I hope your advice regarding counseling and apply it to your son the cad. While I have absolutely not feeling for a man who set out to seduce my wife, I do have some tatters of feeling his wife and I hope he gets some counseling to help retilt his moral center back onto plumb.
Because I have some feelings for her, I would ask that you no longer contact my current wife because it causes her pain. Whether this marriage survives or not, I'd just as soon spare her that so she can find her own center, whomever she is with."
OM's father was absolutely correct in laying into OP's wife. she needed to hear the consequence of her actions. Plus the way brother reacted I am willing to bet Dad was the one who raised him that way and also gave his own son a huge tongue lashing and piece of his mind about it.
JCD - I see your point but I'm leaning towards AlmostRecovered tack. I don't disagree with what the Father did.
chapparal - thank you for that list. I'm not sure I could sit long enough to read the cover but I will pick a few up.
More News the OM's wife texted me last night to ask how everything was going. said she need some stuff back. I said I did too. And I took the opportunity to tell her that they had the 40 min. conversation. she said he swore to her that they hadn't. so they are both still lying through this. I did not give her advice. just wished her well in whatever happens. she gave me some more details too.
The OM's wife told me that my wife had divulged all sorts of "marital problems" (ones that didn't exist or were blown way up) and had told the OM that she was "done" and would leave any time. she asked the OM if he loved her and he said he could etc. etc.
really just keeps getting better and better. The OM's wife said they were going to work on it and I detected major sweeping and damage control already in the works so I feel very bad for her.
my brother is a christian marriage counselor and while he says he might not be able to be objective he and his wife would help me through this. I know religion isn't for some but it is a component of my life that I can't ignore through these proceedings. with that being said, at this point, I'm not sure if it can reach me at this point. just too much bad stuff!!
really just keeps getting better and better. The OM's wife said they were going to work on it and I detected major sweeping and damage control already in the works so I feel very bad for her.
I understand your faith however most religious counseling that I have heard of on the board is a whole lot of rug sweeping, they rush to forgiveness too fast and many will even allow WS to blameshift
almostrecovered - now that I am better armed with the knowledge of this forum. any rug sweeping or blame shifting will be called out. I just won't take it and I will be vigilant.
I am having lunch with him today to discuss more detail etc. and will take his temperature on that.
with that being said, a rush to forgiveness is a tenet of my faith whether I like it or not. Forgiveness can occur though without be sticking around.
Forgiveness is only warranted when she is truly remorseful, repentant and contrite. Right now she's only feeling guilty. She is not ready for forgiveness yet. She needs you to stand up and lay down the law....take her to the brink of the precipice. Else she'll pull this crap again down the road. Posted via Mobile Device
ssap, buddy i can feel for you,caught my ex in a relationship with a family member.that being said,she's right in front of you made the phone call to him and didn't give the correct answer...no i love him,not you...all you are is her plan b,especially now that she has NO job. no disrespect here, but it seems like your lacking in self respect.
bandit - I completely agree about forgiveness if remorseful
67 - I'm sorry for your loss. I am still wading through the shock part of this.
JCD - That was very well put and I appreciate the thought put into it.
I agree about the need in change of behavior and remorse.
We're both home today and about an hour ago my wife had a complete melt down panic attack, hyperventilating, shaking, just awful. I helped her through it but am guarding myself. It won't do anyone any good if one of us ends up in the hospital.
thank you all again, I may not do everything everyone advises but please know that I do read and value everything you contribute.
JCD - That was very well put and I appreciate the thought put into it.
I agree about the need in change of behavior and remorse.
We're both home today and about an hour ago my wife had a complete melt down panic attack, hyperventilating, shaking, just awful. I helped her through it but am guarding myself. It won't do anyone any good if one of us ends up in the hospital.
I think the panic attack is a good thing. The stress of what is occuring seems to be sinking in (unless you are driving her to it, which seems a bit far fetched). This means she is experiencing a sense of loss.
If I were a betting man, I'd put 3-1 odds it is the impact of almost losing her family.
I'd put even odds on the mental conflict between OP and OM driving her to misery. Which, IMO, is a good thing. So far, all she had was happy goodness thoughts about the OM. If there is a conflict, it's to the good of ssap.
I am not a psychologist, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express, so you may safely discount my opinions.
Boy I have to pat the business owner on the back - GOOD MAN!
As far as where to go here. Your W has betrayed you for the second time. Its bad when it happens for the first time but when its 8 months in when the hpneymoon period should be still going I suggest its a habitual cheating sequence.
You made a point of saying issues of fertility - Hate to put this forward but was/is she looking for someone to imprenate her (I hate that question ). If so this is really betraying you.
Back to 8 months in - caught then but not learning either you have to hold your hands up and say I didnt hammer this home and lay down the boundries OR I did lay these down and shes basically thought Im doing it with who, when i want no matter what....
Now - Its a really difficult issue as it does as suggested from your posts above that you are protecting your W in this situation even though it didnt go past Emotional affair testing it seems it was on route to a full blown Personal Affair.
Are you sure there has been no sexual contact? as she is a previous offender Id be wary of STIs - May be worth a visit and get checked out. It will knock her to know as well as she will see the additional aspects of having an entanglement.
Will coucilling help? I question that. But if YOU decide to try it then she MUST without question go along with it or is there another reason (like shes happy to try and get away with it until next time?).
One positive here - There appears to be no children in the loop who can be hurt by her actions.
remember to stay focused if you are taking control here. If your ex friends wife is happy to take him back DO NOT feel that you should also. Its your marridge that has been significantly damaged (twice), Now your wife is not earing there is a strong reason to suspect she will fight to keep a roof over her head and food in her stomach, all supplied by you. That clearly want an issue when she was leading up to an affair.
Consider legal advice without her knowing. get your rights sorted so you feel more in control and then if she starts to wander from wanting to accept responsibility for her actions you can just drop in what will happen if the line is ever crossed or even approached.
Do not let your guard down - you will need to be observant
Thanks all. I'm on my phone now so my reply may lack the usual order but I did want to say
That I did Tell my wife that the OMW said those things and she had a slough of excuses why she did that but said it was wrong to have done so.
Another component is a small but poorly timed argument that she took as a sign that I was done with her but failed to tell me felt that way. A poor excuse by any standard
Also, the fertility issue is on her side. I am healthy and fertile and have been footing many tens of thousands of dollars to try to achieve this goal Posted via Mobile Device
I am a Christian who reconciled with my wife after an affair. It was many years ago and we are still together.
I agree with you about forgiveness, but as well as being very hard it is separate from reconciliation.
You have to decide whether the affair is biblical grounds for divorce. If sex has occurred it is a no brainer. Otherwise it is more complex.
If you choose to reconcile, you already know the challenge is how to make it work. No extenuating circumstances and she is still trying to continue the affair. That's hard.
Good luck as you work through this. Sorry I don't have an answer for you.
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