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Am I a chump or a d1ckhead. I need help either way.

53K views 251 replies 41 participants last post by  Mike11 
#1 · (Edited)
My wife left me on Friday and took all the kids with her (We have 4 children together, 18, 15 , 12 and 10) . Its been a while coming and we were on a cusp of fixing or failing, but she caught me putting a keylogger on her computer and decided that was the last straw.
Here is the background. We have been married 22 years and have been together for 3 years prior to that.

About 10 years ago she had an EA with a man, a divorcee who very fortunately didn’t reciprocate and take advantage so it never (as far as I know) developed into a PA. I was blind at the time and didn’t see the signs that were obvious in hindsight. We went to marriage counseling and reconciled. But still all the time she complained that I, all the time was controlling and she felt constrained. In many ways its true. She is very bad handling money and I keep her to a budget. (she manages her own accounts as she pleases but I only put the agreed budget into it).

Over 3 years ago I had to move to Canada to start a new job. She remained behind with the children for 18 months for her to complete a Masters degree she wanted to do. At this stage I trusted her enough to leave her to do it. After the being autonomous for 18 months (during which she also overspent the money I had left in the account under her full control) she again felt that I was over controlling when she came to join me in Canada 2 years ago. Within a year of coming here she again had an emotional affair. It lasted a couple of weeks and she (claims she) stopped it herself just as I was discovering it. I was much more aware . I found some of the facebook chat they had where she was disparaging me to the OM.

This pained me terribly as I had sacrificed much to have her stay and complete her degree while I moved across the Ocean, seeing her only 4 times in the 18 months. She used to be short sighted I agreed that she could have expensive Lasik surgery, and within a month of that she was into the EA. This was over a year ago. I felt very betrayed and I did become more of a jerk because of it. I trusted her less and she resented the fact that I was checking up on her. I had her Hotmail and facebook passwords but lately she has been becoming more and more insistent that spouses should have some spheres of privacy in a marriage. She treats that as if it is a basic axiom and the normal state of affairs that no sane person can contradict.

So she had been feeling more and more put upon and “controlled” and a colleague of hers (her boss in fact) put her onto the “landmark forum” and she attended a weekend seminar and subsequent evenings. I read up about Landmark and became more concerned and I didn’t want her to attend the advanced course. (about another $1000 that it would put us out of pocket.) Her job is part time and so here income is very low and I would have to stump the money for this and I refused.

She has also often stolen money from joint accounts behind my back when she thought I would not find out. When I did find out she said that I didn’t give her enough in the budget. Its what we agreed but she then claimed she was too scared of me to ask for more. Besides, the cash flow is marginal now anyway so there can’t be more available.
One of the consequences of the landmark seminars is that she was encouraged to open up about her past sins to people she has wronged in the past. One of the things I got was that she had another EA just 2 years into our marriage with a work colleage which progressed to kissing and cuddling in the basement (and out of sight) office where he worked. This was not volunteered to me but only revealed when in the midst of an argument about her most recent EA I asked if she had any other secret liasons that up to then I was not aware of.

This was rather shocking to me and of course I started to thing that I had been trickle trothed and their must be more. I have still insited on monitoring her e-mail, phone and facebook and she became even more adamant that that is an invasion of her privacy that no normal couples should do. I had asked her to write a confession or a timeline to help me get to the whole truth and help me believe that she wanted to now be honest and transparent. The reason I asked her to write it is because I thought it would be easier for her to do than to tell me face to face. This she refused to do. I checked one of her chat sessions and found out she had bounced this request off a friend who has just come out of a messy marriage and divorce. (the ex husband was a real control freak who refused her contact with her own family) The response from the well meaning friend was “NO NO NO NO NO, he just wants to use that confession against you and take it to his lawyers)

Using this information I asked her if she was talking about our problems to her friends. She said “no”. I asked if she was talking directly to this divorcee saying that she is not a good foil to talk to given her sad history and obvious biases, she again said “No!” An outright lie to me and I told her so.

Things have gone downhill from there and now she has left me since she found me putting a keylogger on her (shared with childrens) computer. I wanted to check on the children too. This to her was the last straw for her and she moved out on Friday while I was at work. She did it in a deceitful manner acting all warm and loving until she dropped me off at the office.

Am I a chump or have I driven her to this action by being too hard on her.

P.S. she may well find this post herself as she is aware that I have been reading TAM. Clumsy and careless of me leaving the computer open with this page up, just as I was clumsy with the keylogger. It seems her insistence on privacy does not limit her from looking at what I am doing on the computer.
 
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#89 ·
Thanks for the moral support Kando.

One thing sowing seeds of doubt in my mind if she went all the way to full sexual PA was her voiced fears about STD's. Was that a smokescreen to keep me off the scent or was it a genuine barrier to her that might have stopped her?
 
#90 ·
Voiced fears? In what context?

I always found that when my Wayward voiced anything that did not come from me, it was his guilty conscience at work....'you think I did it more times don't you, you will never get over it' in answer to me saying I would like a cup of tea

(obviously not quite that random, it was on the lines of chat about our issues, but was so far removed from what I was asking or thinking that it would hit me sideways, may as well have been a cup of tea I was asking for....guilty!)
 
#92 · (Edited)
Perhaps I should have bounced this idea of this forum first. I have just e-mailed her boss and friend, the same one that suggested the landmark forum to her, about our separation and that she was the person I think precipitated it by getting my wife involved in Landmark Education. I told her boss/friend the same story I did in my opening post.

I hope that this is all in the interests of exposing the whole background to that network of her friends (and her proxy family away from home) that she is not entirely blameless in this whole affair.

Anyway, Remains, she is more committed to separating than I am at the moment so any question of taking her back now is moot. I don't know if the fog applies to her situation, but she is so deep into the belief that she is the victim. My checking up on her was intolerable to her, but she could never fully be honest with me and demonstrate that transparency. Right now she is trying to use the children as a barrier. She is not prepared to give me equal custody at this time. She does allow me some time but always they sleep back with her friend's.
 
#93 ·
That is absolutely wrong! How can she not give you equal custody? You are an equal parent. What reasons is she using?

I'm sorry, but I find that mindblowing. They are NOT her possession. You are in the marital home, their home. If anyone should be main cater it is you. That is their home! Not this bloody friend's house! You must have some avenue that you can hammer her for doing this? Surely?
 
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#94 ·
I don't think there was anything wrong with sending that email BTW. I could be wrong, but I don't see it would do harm. I would also point out the money she stole from her family over the years, her complete irresponsibility, particularly the £10,000, I guess you have mentioned the EA's, and don't ever mention the word controlling except in the context of 'while I was a higher earner, and she looking after the children, mostly there was no problem from me if she needed to spend money for the family. But sometimes sacrifices have to be made while aiming for the bigger picture. And while I made the sacrifices, she did the opposite. While I took care of our finances due to her showing she could not, I would be sacrificing for our future while she robbed from our future. And when I curbed her spending habits, she threw the CONTROLLING card at me. Thus, she didn't actually want to make a comfortable future for us. She just wanted to waste on frivolity, and I was called names and fought with when I wanted realistic spending!' ...or however you would put it. Don't write that word in any other context other than to point out her trying to manipulate due to not getting her own way. Otherwise you will fall into the trap of people wondering about your controlling nature and that wife was right.

It seems to me she had you believing you were controlling too due to the way you wrote your posts. And it seems to me, correct me if I am wrong, that you only started to control more as a direct result of her behaviour.
 
#95 ·
OK, let try this again,,,,, Read It Slowly So That Maybe this Time You Will Get It !!!!

As long as you are chasing, she is going to do what she wants.
By you asking to stay together she feels you are still whipped, so she is in control.

Now,, Pay Close Attention, for this may be the ONLY way to save your marriage and still have a pair with some self respect.

GO COMPLETELY DARK. Yeah it means not seeing the kids for a while, but until you man up to hardass status, she is going to rule thru them. Show her by acting as if your are saying "thank you for setting me free" that you are looking at it as a do over without wife and kids.
Start living as if you are single with only yourself to worry about.
Yes,, you read it right.
If the house is rented, MOVE !!! Tell her to come get the rest of the stuff bc you are moving somewhere she won't be able to get a key since she wants to call the cops.

Look her in the eye and say " F**K you, I want a D now. After all that you have cost me, you have the NERVE to pull this crap, I deserve better ".
Say it mean it
You see, you are fighting a losing battle as long as she knows you want her back. The crap you listed as your wrongs don't even come close to her acting like this.

Oh, as for the VD fear, forgetaboutit. Do you REALLY think she was sneaking out just to go ?? You was out of the country, she could have just said she was going out. But she didn't do that, so what had her being sneaky ?? She didn't want you getting a friend to keep and eye on he thats why.

But like I said, your best chance is to just walk away like you never coming back. If the kids want to see you let THEM call you.
S long as she thinks she can hold them over your head, she will.

In fact, tell the s***k you young enough to have some more with a younger woman.

Hey, I NEVER said I was a nice guy when fighting. Hell most time.
 
#96 ·
Thanks for the reminder OldWolf. From reading TAM a bit I know you are right, but it seems so counter-intuitive and not what you read in the "normal" pop psychology sources.

AT the moment she is definitely not sharing the kids equal time. I can wait I suppose for the kids to start settle into some calmer state, but I don't want her to establish a precedence of time sharing status quo either.

I have spoken to a lawyer and he advises that I be proactive in handing over child support money. There is a guideline for this and I intend to hold strictly to that guideline but I know that will leave her very short on cashflow (compared to what she is used to).

I don't want to volunteer any alimony, partly since I sacrificed 18 months and supporting 2 households on a single income for her to get her Masters degree and that should make her earning capacity quite good. Her share of the combined net assets give her a net worth of at least $250 000 so she is not poor. Its all about cash tied up.
 
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#97 ·
Heres a plan someone suggested to get my kids to want to stay in the family home. Get an X-box and a few cool games. WW took the Wii and the PS3 with her. She may or may not have had ulterior motives in that but this is fighting fire with fire.

It may backfire if I want to use the amount of time the kids spend on games and gameboys (which IMHO is excessive) against her in future.

What ideas out there.
 
#98 ·
How long does it take for a D to work its way thru the system ??
Man you are still NOT seeing.
18 15 12 10, these are not babies. These are kids that had her as the primary caregiver. That why #1 son is her secret keeper. They are more bonded to her than you.
I don't think they like living all crammed in, but they will listen more to her than you now. Believe me, they remember the shouting you did, and you can't change that.
They don't understand how you tryed to keep her from throwing money away. Herhusband kids was the same way, and I pray your situation don't turn out like his. He got the family back together, but his last few posts was filled with how much it took out of him, and now we are praying he comes back to say he's OK.

Thats one of the reasons we TRY to help shorten the time of agony by advising to act strongly and quickly.
 
#99 · (Edited)
I have all my kids with me this weekend. Wife is trying effectively rationing time and dictating when they should be returned. (I haven't had anywhere near equal time yet), Someone is obviously bending her ear about how she is the "primary caregiver" and she interprets that as she takes the lion's share. but I don't know what that means in practical or legal terms since none of them are toddlers anymore.

The 12 year old boy is taking the situation the hardest. He is sulky and moody and it tears me up seeing him like this. I started crying then he started crying and we had a mutual cry and hug together.

Is it wise to keep them with me a day or more longer . I can take another day or two with work and if they all want to, simply keep them here a day or two longer. Wife doesn't want to discuss regular arrangements yet but tries to dictate the terms of visitation in this limbo period. She also seems determined to separate and is in the bosom of her toxic sisterhood that will feed here all kinds of bull about how much money I should be paying her etc etc.
 
#101 ·
With regards to all this game station crap let your old lady plug them in.
If it was me I would want to spend what little time i had interacting with my kids, like playing games, going out doors, or even cooking.

The trick is find that one thing besides the gaming crap....which is hard these days but once you find that magic button that clicks with the kids your old lady can never take that way.
 
#102 ·
Well No 1 son (18 year old) is slowly coming around. He is old enough to understand some facts of life and I explained them to him.

This does give me some incentive to spend quality time and interact more with my younger sons as as well, a thing I have left by default to their mother. What a fool I was. This weekend a small success. Youngest son finally managed to ride a bicycle. He needs much more practice of course but hes got the start and the confidence to carry on trying.

OldWolf, its difficult going dark on the wife when I have to haggle for time with my kids. I am trying to keep it strictly to topic. She is not ready to talk about regular arrangements. She is probably trying to arm up with all sorts of legal reasons to try and cut me down on my share of time with the kids.
 
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#107 ·
Well No 1 son (18 year old) is slowly coming around. He is old enough to understand some facts of life and I explained them to him.

OldWolf, its difficult going dark on the wife when I have to haggle for time with my kids. I am trying to keep it strictly to topic. She is not ready to talk about regular arrangements. She is probably trying to arm up with all sorts of legal reasons to try and cut me down on my share of time with the kids.
I was told not to worry when my ex was trying (she is still trying) to turn my kids against me. Kids would eventually see the truth. I did not believe it at the time but sure enough it is months later and both my boys see what she did and will be nice to her (because she is their mother) but they see what she did and see how she broke up the family and are fully in my corner. So do not worry about the kids - they will come around.

But it is hard to communicate - she always keeps things hidden between her and kids so it is difficult to plan holidays and such but that's her deal not mine. Frankly, there is no family anymore - I tried to hang on to a sense of family but there is just no way - so if she doesn't care - neither do I....there is just my relationship with my kids period.

Sadly for her, in our summer home there is a big sign saying "families are forever" over our kitchen archway - she will have to see that at Christmas time. She's such a hypocrite.
 
#103 ·
D, you do what you think is right. This is your life, and only you know what you need, to keep you sane at this point

As long as you can get thru to #1 son, that is progress. He's 18, its time to start talking to him like a young adult. Not all of the stuff between you and his mother, except about how you was trying to save for them.
As for having them, just tell her you WILL be having YOUR kids from friday to sunday evening EVERY week. Otherwise she is going to see a side of you that she has never seem before.
Explain you are trying to be civil, but her keeping your kids from you, is an EVIL and petty thing to do to someone who has put a roof over her head and food in her belly for all of these years.
Ask her if she could have lived in other countries and traveled the world like she has, if she was not married to you.
Ask her how many of her friends have been and done half the things she has.

You see, you have to put the sh!t right in her face. If shewants out, then get the hell out, but DO NOT use your kids in her selfish manipulations.`
 
#104 ·
You should file in So Africa like you said, since she is trying to soak you.
And when she start talking about money, ask her when is she going to stop being a leach an start taking care of her self.
I think you said she got her masters. I would shame her so bad she would not ask me for anything.
 
#105 ·
DWM

Time to let her know you are NO chump OR a d1ckhead

Old wolf is right (he's passionate too ain't he!). Its petty and spiteful of her to treat your children like chattel to be used as pawns. Its war she wants - war she gets. Just leave the kids out of it for the love of god.
 
#106 ·
WOM, you guys do better than I do for sane stuff. Its when they try to walk all over the person that love them when they was unlovable, that my sense of unfair tactics ignite.

DWM, you just do as you see fit dude, we are here for you when you need to vent.

Now I have to go to on demand to catch up on The Big Bang, and Two and a Half Men. Been doing a lot of volunteering.
 
#108 · (Edited)
I have now toted up the amount of money stolen from the Irish account in sundry ATM withdrawals. To recap the Irish account is a buffer where mortgage and insurances are paid. The rental income doesn't cover the mortgate and leaves a monthly shortfall of around $700. Since February she has taken out around $1500.

Her own earnings at her part time jobs can be as much as $1000 a month (but it is irregular) and I handed over the groceries clothing and sundries budget of $1800 p.m. to her. Now her own earnings were supposed cover the $700 shortfall. She contributed nothing. I am a chump as I should have simply deducted the $700 from the budget and not let her defaulting on our financial arrangement slide. This seems to have fueled her sense of entitlement and still she wanted more. Even with her own income she felt the need to steal more from our other account without me knowing. During the marriage she also had other accounts the built up a healthy balance from my jobshopping contributions and some of her freelance translation work, and those have been depleted completly now.

I think I mentioned before that the mortgage, utilities and even the phone she used for one of her jobs etc were all covered and not included in her groceries budget. How then could she not come out on between $2200 and $2800 a month?

Now when she asks for child support money I should either deduct the $700 for her house (the house in Ireland is in her name but the mortgage is joint) and the or force her to pay into that account regularly. I have done the child support calculation and even if she has full custody of all the kids, she will get no more than what I have already been regularly handing over to her (and that was with having a roof over her head and utilities provided).

She is in for a rude awakening I think, when she finds out how little money she can actuall extort from me, and she thinks she can live in subsidised "low income" housing, but I don't think that will fly when they know she owns property in Ireland that was bought for over half a million euro. (around $676 000 at todays exchange rate).

I have to be ready for any underhand trick she wants to pull. She is getting counsel from her toxic sisterhood and I am pretty sure she has got a lawyer involved. I guess I have to wait and see. What is my best action here?
 
#109 · (Edited)
Well #1 son (18) is going to move back home. He cannot practice his guitar in wife's friends apartment. Well that is a practical reason, but maybe also he sees that she is no angel in this.
 
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#110 · (Edited)
D, when he moves back, the older ones may just hassle her enough for her to let them come back too.
As for the house in Ireland, I would see about taking my name off the mortg.

And the next time you talk to her, ask her why the family had to suffer for 18mo's if she is not going to use the masters degree to earn more. Seems just more money she threw away on a whim.

My man, this is what you have to realize " sometime you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it ".
That mean you take the decision out of her hand whether you stay together or not by filing first, and asking for primary custody.
 
#112 ·
Another small victory. I am now in sole control of all the cash on hand. I have managed to move the bulk of cash that I had previously put into the joint account in Ireland (getting killed on exchange rates in the process) Now that can increase the pressure since at least $700 a month has to be put into it to service the mortgage on her house in Ireland. There is no more than 2 months buffer there now. I didn't mention it before in case she is reading this forum and got her mother (with her power of attorney) to stop it somehow; but the transaction is complete now.
 
#114 ·
The bad news for both of us now is that the house in Ireland has effectively lost half its value over the last 4 years. This means its net value is almost nothing after taking the value of the mortgage off, so now we sit with only my assets in Canada to divide out. I consulted a financial planner thinks that I can buy her out of any share in our house here with an RRSP. That means she has guaranteed retirement savings and I get tax relief from paying it.
 
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#116 ·
That goes without saying, but it means that if it were at its original value then her assets (in her name) are equal to mine (in my name) and we could simply part with her keeping hers and me keeping mine and I would also be free of the millstone of servicing her mortgage. Now her assets are almost worthless (net of mortgage). You've heard of gearing. (I think you Americans call it leverage). It works in reverse and double whammies you. and that means she has a claim to half the value of my assets, which she wouldn't have had if her house had any value.
 
#118 ·
That option is already in one of my scenario's. We'd probably have to sell the house in Quebec to divide out its net worth then. She could probably clear $200k that way in cash. Considering the current political climate in Quebec and economic prospects that is probably not a bad idea but I need to hang on to my job here because jobs are scarse right now in my field. (Aeronautical engineering).

Now its the end of the month and she will probably need to come and ask for money. She hasn't tried to contact me for anything so far so I am wondering how best to handle the situation.

A lawyer has suggested I be proactive and give her her due as calculated on the child support guidelines for Quebec. I could wait for her to broach the subject. When she does I could also point out the money she has already taken in advance from the Irish Bank and deduct that from her child support due.

btw, The friend who is putting her and the kids up has a husband who works in the same building I do. When I see him I will probably feel like hitting him for interfering in my family in that destructive manner. They could have come and helped by being a third party to help start a discussion and then planned her exit or some other alternative, MC or agree separation terms, etc.
 
#119 ·
Its now a new month and my deserting wife hasn't asked for any money yet. I am avoiding contact with her so I don't want to bring up the topic. In any event I have done the calculation of the child support due her (according to the tables and guidelines and me making the extrapolating assumption that she can work full time at minimum wage and we share custody at a40% 60% ratio ) and I get a figure of half what her agreed budget used to be. This figure is also a mere $20 more than the money she already withdrew from the Irish bank.

I am not sure what her lawyer or her toxic sisterhood has conjured into her head but one of the things I think she believes from our brief conversations is that "in the interests of the children" I could be forced out of my house and she and the children could live there.

For that eventuality I am considering a nuclear option of resigning my job, whereupon my work permit (and the rest of the families residence permits) expires and we have 30 days to leave Canada.

Any comments?
 
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