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Husband EA with co worker, what to do?

46K views 272 replies 32 participants last post by  Blue_eyes78 
#1 ·
Ok so I've posted a couple of times here about my marriage. My husband of 6 years gave me the ILYBNILWY speech on sept. 26 of this year. I was shocked, begged for a chance and for him to really try. He said he liked flirting with other women and didn't find me attractive but not sure if he wanted a divorce. He said he would try. A couple of weeks later I started getting a gut feeling there was someone else. He of course denied it. I guilted him into admitting he talked to a 26 year old female co worker but it was innocent. I didn't believe him but had no proof so I told him he needed to choose between talking with her and being with me. He chose being with me. Fast forward to a week ago. I found the secret cell phone. Many texts about how hot he thought she was and just give him time and he will divorce me etc. when confronted he was very remorseful said he didn't love her, he just wanted to screw her. Long story short he says he feels like he owes it to the kids and me to give us a real try. The catch is she still works with him. He ended things with her and management knows about it and told them both that if it continued she would be fired on the spot. From reading the texts I got the impression that he was more into it than her, that she more or less just liked the attention and control she had. My question is has anyone heard of people involved in something like this continuing to work together platonically? He says he can handle it.
 
#39 ·
It will be a year from dday in Dec and he left his job on May, but our story has not been a consistent one and has had a lot of episodes of pain and grief. We have been separated for most of the year. I am having quite a bad week so there may be a chance I post, I just feel numb and angry.
 
#41 ·
That is sooo nice CTU! I was feeling your pain last week and wantd to defend you so hard, hope I did! Very happy you are having better days now, I think we just need space to be mad and proud sometimes. Our pride takes such a blow that we need a little push and *****yness sometimes.
 
#43 ·
yes. I was upset and venting something hard. I was also right in theory I just got a bit too testy b/c of the damned triggers. Thanks for having my back and understanding. The ones who were pushing me were right too. Sigma was pushing way hard but he knows alot of our story and knows we have fought so hard just to make it here and was trying to make me remember the whole story not just this one screw up. But sometimes when those triggers come callin'....


Back to you Cris. What are your current thoughts?
 
#44 ·
I told H last night that I didn't see us working if he still worked with her. His response was that he felt that if he demanded she leave then he would feel a lot of guilt. He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade. That is his hope. That he and I will work on things and feelings for me will get stronger and feelings for her will fade. He says there is no way for them to have a relationship as long as she is working with him. She will be fired. He says that he wouldn't be the only one affected if she left, she works with another one of his partners two days a week and how would it be explained to them? He said that he sees it being worse for us if I demand that he can't work with her. He wants to handle it and not be told what to do by me. I'm still going to bring it up in counseling tomorrow and we will go from there.
 
#45 ·
Listen, he doesnt get to call the shots here. HE cheated. HE does what makes you able to live with that. WHATEVER that is. Otherwise, he's not remorseful. He's gaslighting you. His "feelings" wont disappear and he knows it. That is NOT how it works. Go ahead, look all over this board and fine just ONE WS that stayed with their AP and it just "faded"....we'll wait...
 
#49 ·
He told you that because he KNOWS you are chicken and will not leave him. HE has all the power and he LOVES having all the power. Having two women fight over him strokes his ego (and other parts) like nothing else. Why would he stop?

Until you wake up and realize he OWES YOU, and you DEMAND that he choose her or you, you will continue to be used and stomped on.
 
#50 ·
Do people in EA that are made to go no contact resent the spouse that made them do it? I know in my mind all of you are right. I just am so scared of losing him, I love him. I don't want a divorce for my kids. I keep hoping that he is the exception, and it keeps turning out that he isn't. I am so torn. I don't want to do something I will regret. Thank you all for your advice. I do believe that it is good advice. I just have to somehow find the courage to really put my foot down.
 
#51 ·
will he resent it? YES! Almost as much as YOU resent what he has done. ALMOST. But when the fog clears ,if he's anything like my H, he will be grateful. My h has actually thanked me for kicking his ass into NC. He admits it would only have digressed.

Sometimes you have to willing to risk it ALL just to save it.
 
#55 ·
Cris7, look at this statement of his:

Long story short he says he feels like he owes it to the kids and me to give us a real try.
and now look at this one:

He also said that he would resent me for removing her from his life without him knowing if his feelings would just fade. That is his hope.
These two statements are entirely inconsistent.

YOU need to point this out to him.

Giving your marriage a "real try" will never work while he's trying to figure out if his "feelings" for this woman will "fade."

What are those feelings anyhow?

--sexual attraction

--infatuation

these are NOT love and will never be mistaken for love. They are the feelings anyone has at the START of any romantic relationship. They are NOT genuine and lasting.

So what he's really saying is:
"Let me date her by getting to spend time with her at work--which means seeing her on the job, and perhaps before, after, or during lunch as long as we sneak around and management doesn't catch on. After I date her, maybe I'll be ready to divorce you then. Or maybe I'll get bored with her, and later someone better will come along instead."


This attitude he has is EXTREMELY COMMON amongst cheaters. Cheaters are "cake eaters": they want it ALL. They truly believe that it's okay to date while they're married. He doesn't want her entirely right now--because why? He has to sample the goods first. Meanwhile, you are holding down the fort. You are his security blanket. You take care of the kids and the house. YOU ARE HIS BABYSITTER AND HOUSEKEEPER and probably also the laundress and food maker and grocery shopper and errand runner. He needs you to stay in that role while he "test drives" the OW.

Do NOT fall for this BULLSH*T because that is exactly what it is.


-------------------

You need to prep for that counseling meeting. Find that book, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass. Get it at the library or download it if you have to. ALSO Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. You need to quickly educate yourself about infidelity as fast as possible and prep for that counselor meeting.

Prepare what you are going to say to the counselor. Figure it out now, be precise, concise. You need to figure out, what does that counselor know about infidelity. Take a temperature reading of whether that counselor believes that spouses cause infidelity or whether it's a CHOICE that he is making. You need to try to get that counselor on your side because you need an outside party leaning on him about his job situation.
 
#61 ·
Cris7, I just want to give you some words of encouragement. I know that what we're saying is hard and that you're scared. I get that. You have a lot of children--you were divorced before--it is heartbreaking to contemplate that your marriage is in such danger.

I identify with you because I likewise was not present in our marriage for a couple of years. My circumstances were different; I was not suffering from depression (was yours post-partum?), so I can't give that as the reason I was not the spouse I ought to have been. I was basically selfish, taking out my exhaustion and negative emotions on my husband, pushing him away instead of seeing him as my ally during a tough time financially with small kids.

But just like you, I was able to pull it together and to change. However, like you, I was confronted with the fact that improving myself and changing and becoming a better spouse--that did not do the trick! Instead of noticing and turning toward me because I was now ready to be the spouse of his dreams, he was already far down this path of enjoying the emotional attention of a younger former co-worker. He wasn't going to give that up once he'd latched onto it--not easily.

It really helps to see this as an addiction. Something he will not let go of without a LOT of kicking and screaming and yes, resentment. He's a baby and you're taking away his favorite toy. Screaming will be involved. But if that toy will hurt you, and him too, and a bunch of kids in the bargain, are you going to let him continue to play with it?
 
#62 ·
Plus, he's a doctor and doctors can get pretty entitled and 'higher than' others. We have to treat the ones here with kid gloves.

Own up to your side. Show him that you've learned a lot and that you'll NEVER take him for granted again and that you'll be busting your butt to become an amazing wife.

But then point out that he will miss out on all that if he doesn't get rid of his mistress because you will NOT share your husband with another woman. And when he blusters that he can 'handle' her being there, you just say 'maybe YOU can, but your WIFE can't.'
 
#64 ·
Yes. His wife cant and shouldnt. Its torture. No one who claims to love their spouse and to want to stay married should expect their BS to just "suck it up" or "wait to see if the feelings fade"...what if they dont??? then what? He Divorces you? Just cheats behind your back. Gets her pregnant?? this can and will get soooo much worse if it doesnt end ASAP. Even the WS who is truly dedicated to R would likely be unable to completely tune in while there is contact of ANY kind. Its driving in two lanes at once. VEry dangerous.
 
#63 ·
Also if you get some quack of a counselor that even hints that part of his affair may be your doing or that you played a roll in it somehow,someway and its all in the past and him working with her is ok....
get up tell them they suck and walk out..
I'm serious as a heart attack here, leave because they will do you no good, oh your husband would love this type of counsleor because it will make him feel justified.
Those type of counselors are out there....ask if they have a background on infidelity and if they have read "Not Just Friends" and prescribe to it.

My 1st IC guy was trying to get me to think I was partly to blame for my wifes E/A and it was ok for her to continue to work with him, since it was over and exposed to me...what a crack pot...my 2nd one was the same until I gave him "Not Just Friends" then he changed his tune. I still cant believe I payed these guys, they should have given me money to listen to thier horse ****.

It's not rocket science, not matter how good or bad of a spouse you were, it NEVER ever justifies someone lying and betraying you..thats all on them.

Everything you want is on the other side of fear.
 
#67 ·
I could use clarification on this also. I believe what he told her is that the office manager is aware, but the human resources (HR) department of the hospital itself does not know.

It's a really tough situation. He really cannot fire her without exposing himself to liability. I say that not as a precaution to prevent him from firing her (hey, natural consequences and all of that!) but rather that he probably fears her suing him and that is a separate reason for keeping her around (apart from being young and cute).
 
#68 ·
So thank you all for your words of encouragement. As for his office manager, yes she knows, I spoke with her as well. The situation is is that he is a doctor in a hospital system. Basically an employee just the same as his assistant although he has more pull. According to his office manager she did not want to get HR involved because it would "get messy". She wanted to move her to another office in the building quietly but there was no where for her to go. She asked my H what he wanted to do, that she could fire her or try and have her transferred but HR would be involved. He told her that he could handle working with her. The coworker was asked if she wanted to continue working there or be transferred and she said she could handle staying there and she wouldn't have any contact with H outside of work.
 
#70 ·
See, the office manager knows what I've been saying: if HR is involved, he will probably be asked to leave. That's because what he did is verbotten in corporations. Yes, it's rampant, but if the company is big enough and it goes high enough up a food chain, and gets a lawyer's attention, then something's going to give. That's because as I've said several times, SHE can sue the hospital, the individual practice group, and your husband (he might be covered as an employee, except that you aren't covered for stuff that you do in violation of company policy, and trust me, he violated policy). But not only can SHE sue, but also the other assistants in that group, secretaries, nurses, everyone who's subordinate to your husband, based on a hostile work environment.

So, I know this doesn't get you anywhere right now, but it seems to me that the office manager is part of your problem. That person is complicit in helping them stay together, whatever "assurances" were given that they would "handle" it.

QUESTION:

Were you able to read any of the OW's texts back to your H? Any communications at all? Any indication that she's receptive? It's tricky, because she may have felt she had to 'play along' in order to keep her boss (your H) happy. But what have you seen about this woman's side?
 
#72 ·
If the sh1t hits the fan the office manager could be in big trouble to,since she knew and didnt take it up the chain...seems like she's palying with fire to....dumbasses

He's a doctor, geez bet he would have ahd time finding other work???
And here's the question--does the office manager know that he had a secret cell phone? DOES SHE KNOW THE ACTUAL CONTENT OF THE SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MESSAGES? Cris7--when you talked to the manager--did you share this with them?
 
#74 · (Edited)
The manager knows that the texts were inappropriate. I didn't tell her the details, she didn't want to hear them. I only asked her if we needed to save the text messages that were on the phone. Yes I read every one of them. H didn't delete a single one. The manager said it wouldn't matter what was said in the texts. Just because she texted them doesn't mean she didn't feel like she needed to because she looked to him as her boss. Manager is also off on maternity leave so I think that has something to do with her brushing it under the rug. Co worker signed something stating that it was a mutual thing as well. Oh and the texts from her were playful in nature, sometimes suggestive like " if you knew what I was thinking you'd be having an affair right now and that wouldn't be good for anyone" and "too bad you are married" to which he replied "give me time"
 
#79 ·
The manager knows that the texts were inappropriate. I didn't tell her the details, she didn't want to hear them. I only asked her if we needed to save the text messages that were on the phone. Yes I read every one of them. H didn't delete a single one. The manager said it wouldn't matter what was said in the texts. Just because she texted them doesn't mean she didn't feel like she needed to because she looked to him as her boss. Manager is also off on maternity leave so I think that has something to do with her brushing it under the rug. Co worker signed something stating that it was a mutual thing as well. Oh and the texts from her were playful in nature, sometimes suggestive like " if you knew what I was thinking you'd be having an affair right now and that wouldn't be good for anyone" and "too bad you are married" to which he replied "give me time"
Okay, so this has all very neatly been taken care of by the 3 people involved.

Unfortunately, your situation remains the same--made worse perhaps by the fact that she might have been returning his advances.

I'm glad to see you're preparing for the counselor.


Have you tried to get copies of the two books suggested, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass (a link to the google excerpts is in my signature, but it's not the complete book), and Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley (I suggest this book because it specifically discusses cutting off contact 100%).

Here is more reading for you:

How Should Affairs End:
Coping with Infidelity: The End (Part 2)

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure
Because this is the order of things to restore your marriage--your counselor needs to be on board with this, and your husband too, in order for things to work:

100% ending of contact

withdrawal from the addiction of the affair (effects wear off, allowing him to restore his feelings of being "in love" with you)

Restoring the marriage by working on it together, and via counseling

Overcoming YOUR resentment (because YOU are the one who was wronged here, NOT him).
 
#75 ·
It sounds to me like HE could get fired. Lets face it, he's her superior. He in fact SHOULD get fired.

Have you found a competent MC yet? Is he willing to go? By competent I mean schooled in infidelity. Not going to rugsweep this. will encourage NC. You really need to ask some questions of the therapist BEFORE you take your H there and the therapist possibly undermines what you know to be right.
 
#80 ·
I did download the book Not Just Friends and read quite a bit. One part talked about how one person in an affair couldn't stop contact because of the job and it set up boundaries for that to still be successful. I'm not saying I agree with it, I was just going to have my H read it and I know he will focus on that.
 
#83 ·
Cris -- I just quickly logged on and have to pick up kids -- but I wish I could write more (good for others that I don't. I'm longwinded.) We read that passage in NJF's and it was an itchy spot for us.... Our N/C begins in absolute this Thrs -- DD Day was Feb 29th. It's HELL having the possibility of them seeing each other. My husband let's me know if he even hears her voice down the hall. It's been excruciating for both of us. We've both read "Not Just Friends". Our counselor is well schooled in it though she subscribes to another person's "method" (another topic. I do some 'calling her out') but it's been a long road to hoe. If you can avoid it -- get that wank out of his hospital or department now. She is complicit!! She's egging him on and feeding it. Don't believe the "We can handle it" bit. I'm telling you from experience -- both my H and the OW told me this in the beginning. It's mier-da (sorry mods) -- I had to expose and confront and blah blah....You'll accelerate the fog lifting if you can get her outta there.

The folk who've posted here have laid down EXCELLENT advice (and I consider iheartlife's words like found amber in a dark bog. Seriously.) You're doing the right thing being tenacious. Don't let him stop u. I had so many ups and downs -- feeling guilty for some of my hardarse behavior. I don't give a rat's pattootie now. It had to be done. (And believe me, party's still not over ---)

I hope this helps but I just started a thread regarding workplace affairs that I hope folk who've experienced the damage there will post in so you (and others) can reference others threads and stories or even PM folk that can help you.

Big big hugs to you.
 
#84 ·
I am bummed because I've read NJF a few times but have conveniently glossed over in my mind that workaround for having an affair partner at your job. Don't give him that hook.

In terms of reading material for your husband, I'd stick then with Dr. Harley, he is hardcore about:

100% ending of contact

leaving the job, even moving if that is what it takes.

again, here are the links:

Start here (how affairs begin)
Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

each essay has a link at the bottom for the next section. The links to each section are on the main page under infidelity. I quoted above from the section, "How Should Affairs End?" which discussed Dr. Harley's belief that 100% end of contact is essential for restoration of the marriage. Again, that link is here: Coping with Infidelity: The End (Part 2)

Dr. Harley is extremely well known in the counseling world also, he wrote the bestselling book His Needs / Her Needs and if your counselor has never heard of him or that book, they are not a marriage counselor (if you are in the USA). I'm not saying you can't be a great counselor without it, but right now you need some proof from the get-go that this counselor knows what they are doing.

But, STILL ask if they know Shirley Glass, because she conducted a lot of original research and her book is the best one, most comprehensive out there. She is on the front lines of the cheater made the choice, don't blame the spouse.

Many counselors want to skip the hard part of confronting the cheater about their activities. They turn to you and say, Hey! He dumped her! He chose you! Stop being so paranoid! A good counselor will NOT let up--they will hold his feet to the fire. We were fortunate that our second counselor was like this (knew all about NJF and Harley). He pointed out that it was up to my husband to win ME back after his betrayal, proving to me that he was affirmatively choosing me and our marriage.
 
#87 ·
There are two supervisors that know also that are in the office, but I doubt they are watching them. I have a good friend who works in the office and she keeps an eye on things, but it really doesn't matter. They pretended before, they can do it again.


Exactly, now your catching on, about how they (cheaters)operate.
 
#91 · (Edited)
they talked about what it would be like if they were together. He mostly, she said she didn't think she was good enough. he said things like good morning sexy, beautiful once he called her my queen. I know they talked on the phone while he was away on business for over two hours and I know it got sexual because she sent a text saying "I just had the most intense orgasm. thank you" I know they talked on the phone on and off too for that month. Towards the end she said something like it seems like you are working on your marriage more than you say which is fine. he replied that it wasn't a matter of if it was more of when he was going to divorce me. When this all came out I sent her a text message letting her know I knew. My husband called in sick to work that day. She panicked and went to my friend who works there saying that she was innocent. that she was always for us working things out and she told him to work on his marriage. She also said that he asked her if she would be there when he was divorced and she told him she wasn't going to put her life on hold. He responded that there were other nurses/options for him. She told my friend to tell me that he had a secret phone and that she didn't think she was the only one he was texting. basically threw him under the bus. After DD I spent the day at a friends house. Came home and told him that he needed to pick which he wanted to do, be here in this marriage or leave. I then went on to tell her what I thought about her. That she was playing him for a fool. She was manipulative and she didn't care about him because she basically threw him under the bus when things went south. He said that before my talk he was set to tell me he wanted a divorce, but after my talk he changed his mind. That somewhere in the back of his mind he had a feeling she was just playing him but he ignored it because of the overwhelming urge to have sex with her. He called her that night and told her they couldn't continue talking outside of work and he told me he wanted to try with me. That's pretty much it.
 
#92 ·
they talked about what it would be like if they were together. He mostly, she said she didn't think she was good enough. he said things like good morning sexy, beautiful once he called her my queen. I know they talked on the phone while he was away on business for over two hours and I know it got sexual because she sent a text saying "I just had the most intense orgasm. thank you" I know they talked on the phone on and off too for that month. Towards the end she said something like it seems like you are working on your marriage more than you say which is fine. he replied that it wasn't a matter of if it was more of when he was going to divorce me. When this all came out I sent her a text message letting her know I knew. My husband called in sick to work that day. She panicked and went to my friend who works there saying that she was innocent. that she was always for us working things out and she told him to work on his marriage. She also said that he asked her if she would be there when he was divorced and she told him she wasn't going to put her life on hold. He responded that there were other nurses/options for him. She told my friend to tell me that he had a secret phone and that she didn't think she was the only one he was texting. basically threw him under the bus. After DD I spent the day at a friends house. Came home and told him that he needed to pick which he wanted to do, be here in this marriage or leave. I then went on to tell her what I thought about her. That she was playing him for a fool. She was manipulative and she didn't care about him because she basically threw him under the bus when things went south. He said that before my talk he was set to tell me he wanted a divorce, but after my talk he changed his mind. That somewhere in the back of his mind he had a feeling she was just playing him but he ignored it because of the overwhelming urge to have sex with her. He called her that night and told her they couldn't continue talking outside of work and he told me he wanted to try with me. That's pretty much it.
sounds pretty intense to me. Anytime there is talk of sex and leaving you its dangerous. This confirms my thoughts- THEY CANNOT work together. NC is a MUST!
 
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