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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 12-03-2012, 09:06 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!

I agree with you OP. The marriage was probably dead before this. You guys were just going through the motions of a married couple but not acting like one. You bludgeoned the dead horse repeatedly...but the horse was dead.

It wasn't just your betrayal, by your accounts, your wife wasn't really that in to you anyways. Trust me, I know the feeling. I know you love her, and you want to try to save the marriage, but there's nothing to save (dead horse remember). As earlier stated, you can try to build a new one but it's entirely up to her. Right now her trust in you is zero.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:13 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!

Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:21 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair?
Did you tell her before you did it and she agreed to it? No? Then it's cheating. There's no difference between cheating and an affair to a betrayed spouse.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.
If you want to define 'affair,' then the standard, general definition would say that your one-offs with prostitutes were not affairs. BUT, your dates with your girl-friend did, in my opinion, constitute an affair. This relationship was a secret, second emotional life for you with another woman. So, a betrayal definitely, and an emotional affair.

That being said, I will tell you that you elicit a lot of sympathy from me. I think the way your W has treated you regarding sex and her career ambitions add up to emotional cruelty. I can't imagine treating the man I love that way. Given these circumstances, your marriage wouldn't have lasted without some sort of counseling intervention, in my opinion.

Your extracurricular sex and EA have made that moot, though. You've lost any leverage you had to get some help for your W's issues with sex & moved the discussion to the next desperate level. You've now made the discussion more about your betrayal of the marriage than her mockery of it.

You say you want to save this. The only chance for that, I think, is to get the two of you into deep counseling for all of your issues. You definitely need an objective third-party interlocutor to even speak to one another at this point.

Is she willing to talk at all?
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:15 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!

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Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.
Cieran, there's no difference between no-strings-attached sex and cheating. Having a relationship outside your marriage is infidelity. You came to this board with a story and questions, but for you to get the most out of the advice you'll get here, you may want to cruise around and look at some other threads, get a handle on some of the nomenclature used nere, read the "newbie" threads, etc.

The fact that you don't understand your "friendship" as an emotional affair is telling. There's so much depth to all this, and you've just addressed the tip of the iceberg. Go deep, and learn what you can from the people here. Most are reasonable, many have vast experience, and you have a lot to gain from what you can find here.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #36 (permalink)
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However, I did not cheat with her. Not even a kiss.
Complete delusion. You don't get it, at. all. You don't have to physicaly cheat to cheat. It's not more than a (false) mental boundaire you choose because you refuse to be acountable. Not far different than Clinton defense. Think about your mother doing it at your father's back.

If you find out your wife was dating a secret friend (OM), doing the things you did with him, thinking on him the way you think of OW, feeling what you feel while with OW, the anticipation... imagine you read your wife's journal describing OM-secret friend with the terms you described here OW. Do it.

I highly encourage you to write down your story with OW with all the details and the emotions, then simply change the names, the genders, the characters, then, get the photo album and look at her, close you eyes, play the movie.... and start throwing up.

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Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.
You "relationship" with OW (EA) fits more the popular notion about what an "affair" is (always sounds too glamurous to me) than NSA sex. You know what? It's cheating, it's complete betrayal, it's crossing marital boundaries. Just different flawors.
You are not "reading" what you don't want to read becasue it fits your previous beliefs which obviously ease any guilty feelings you "should" feel.
Many, many marriages end because what you had with OW (better start thinking on her as such). Ask to any family lawyer.
Quote:
My now ex-friend was very precocious, funny, outgoing, attentive, passionate when talking to me,etc.
What kind of single woman behave this way with a married man? Would you like you daughter behave this way, being the dirty secret of a married man, the source who fill this man emotional needs on his wife's back?

The infatuation is so obvious. OW is idealized to the extreme while ignoring the huge flaw.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:47 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Your denial about EAs are not so much a misunderstanding about narratives and previous beliefes than self induced by your defense mechanisms to deal with cognitive dissonance.
Google it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:59 AM   #38 (permalink)
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You're going through a desperate phase right now and not seeing things clearly. The fact that you two were high school sweethearts leads me to believe that you haven't had to go through break ups in your life time. Compound that with your career and you really haven't had too many dealings with rejection.
So after all this time this is your first real break up and you will do anything to keep it together. You feel like you can't make it alone, you've always had her there in one form or another.
So in your mind you've created this idealistic relationship and that everything is wonderful or can be with you two.
Take a minute and re-read your first post and read it as though you were an outsider and the second post you made didn't exist. You were in an un-happy marriage. You were not happy. You and your wife didn't talk about it or work on it. That's the problem with marrying your high school sweetheart - you don't through through love and loss and learn how to communicate.
So you guys never discussed your unhappiness, you strayed away and now here you are.
It is brutal, I get it, but take a minute and really really think. What will your marriage be like 5 years from now if you guys work it out? Do you honestly think it would be any different and you guys can be happy together?
OK - so my wife had a stupid drunken cheat when we were brutally fighting one night. Did I forgive her? Yeah, working on it. Why? Because almost every moment of our 5 year marriage/8 year relationship was complete happiness. Please don't judge - there were 100s of other factors involved.

Think about what it'll be like. Dude, you cheated for a reason. Hell, I might have too because I'm also too much of a wuss to break up so instead you did everything to end it outside of filing for divorce. Don't think you did? You left files on your computer that don't sound like they were that hard to find. C'mon now.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:07 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: I cheated on my wife, please help me save my marriage!

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Is one time no strings attached sex considered an affair? Cheating yes. I would make the distinction between the two. Not saying any are right.
I doubt a semantics discussion will get you anywhere at this point, but what do YOU consider an affair? I'm curious.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Think about what it'll be like. Dude, you cheated for a reason. Hell, I might have too because I'm also too much of a wuss to break up so instead you did everything to end it outside of filing for divorce. Don't think you did? You left files on your computer that don't sound like they were that hard to find. C'mon now.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I doubt a semantics discussion will get you anywhere at this point, but what do YOU consider an affair? I'm curious.
OKay I know that being truthful will only help me to better solve my own issues and problem so here goes:

I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated. (As I've now learned, this is an EA)

I might be deluded and in denial about an EA with my friend, and I am begining to think that there might have been seeds of that there. BUt I swear it was just a good friendship. Would it be any different if she were ugly and I wasn't attracted to her? I would consider it a huge bonus to my friendship that she was also 'eye-candy' I mean, to speak truthfully, I don't think there is a problem with looking. I don't think about it and I don't want sex from her. I definitely appreciate her looks though.

I know I am wrong. All I'm saying is that I wasn't looking to upgrade, replace my wife, go on a journey with another woman, etc. I had a good friend who was very different from my wife, and much more like myself, and yes I had a series of no-strings attached sex with women I paid to pretend to love me and fake great intimate sex with me. I completely understand that my NSAs were cheating. I feel like a total ******* for doing so, but if I had to define what I did and why, that was why. I did notmake this decision or temptation lightly, I struggled with my feelings and hurt, and temptations for years and years before I faltered.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:10 PM   #42 (permalink)
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You're going through a desperate phase right now and not seeing things clearly. The fact that you two were high school sweethearts leads me to believe that you haven't had to go through break ups in your life time. Compound that with your career and you really haven't had too many dealings with rejection.
So after all this time this is your first real break up and you will do anything to keep it together. You feel like you can't make it alone, you've always had her there in one form or another.
So in your mind you've created this idealistic relationship and that everything is wonderful or can be with you two.
Take a minute and re-read your first post and read it as though you were an outsider and the second post you made didn't exist. You were in an un-happy marriage. You were not happy. You and your wife didn't talk about it or work on it. That's the problem with marrying your high school sweetheart - you don't through through love and loss and learn how to communicate.
So you guys never discussed your unhappiness, you strayed away and now here you are.
It is brutal, I get it, but take a minute and really really think. What will your marriage be like 5 years from now if you guys work it out? Do you honestly think it would be any different and you guys can be happy together?


Think about what it'll be like. Dude, you cheated for a reason. Hell, I might have too because I'm also too much of a wuss to break up so instead you did everything to end it outside of filing for divorce. Don't think you did? You left files on your computer that don't sound like they were that hard to find. C'mon now.
WOw this really helps me. I think you are right. I dated other girls before I married my wife, but I never had a serious relationship or bad breakup before my wife. I have never had to deal with serious loss or break up in a relationship ever I think.

Well outside of the sex, we have been for the most party pretty happy, I think. YOu are right though, if I were to think 5 years from now, would we be intimate? Would I struggle with my sex drive again...I would think, probably. I am waiting for the definitive Real Doll to come out and solve my problems...
I guess I did take the easy way out and turn elsewhere. I could've/should've worked hard at trying to address her intimacy/sex issues, then making a move based on that. Well it's all too late for that, and I do wish I did that in hindsight, because after all, my NSA sex was only for the moment and means nothing to me now.

I am hoping she will forgive me, I am hoping to get help for my addiction to porn and NSA sex. I'm hoping I can keep my family together and be happy again. I'm hoping she can learn to love me and want to be intimate,etc.

YOur last paragraph really strikes me though. It may be that I did do those very things to test the limits of my marriage and my wife with some kind of subliminal 'on purpose' or as another posted had said, to punish my wife. When I truly think hard on these points, I'm not sure I can outright deny it. I just don't know. It's both quite possible. INitially , I didn't even care if she found the videos/pics, until she did, then I regretted it.

I know alot of people are going to villainize me and rightfully so..but if only you knew the whole me, the 13 years I was looked up to as a model father, husband and man, by friends, family and co-workers,etc. I just don't know how the hell I fell so low. I do feel like scum, like some *********. But I swear that is not the real me. IF only you could understand what I say manytimes is that it's like I'm watching some drama TV movie about my own life.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated. (As I've now learned, this is an EA)
Ok, great! So now your wife can go out and screw every guy she wants, right?

Cos, hey! it's just a one-time deal with each guy.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:44 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I would consider an affair where: a) you have on-going sex with a person that you are attracted to (a physical affair) or ; b) you are in-love with someone else, or something akin to being more than just infatuated.
I understand what you're saying, but the root of an affair, one night stand, and sexual or emotional relations with another human falls under the broad category of cheating, and cheating is the thing that tramples the soul of the betrayed spouse.

(I haven't read back through these past few pages, but why are we arguing semantics here?)

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:54 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Because he wants to get out of being called a cheater, so his wife will take him back after she quit him. For cheating.
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