Finally talked some / Toxic Friends
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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 12-02-2012, 08:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

My WW & I had a talk last night....its been 3 months since I moved back home. We finally got around to talking about what happened

We had gotten some take out food & got some movies to watch. It was a nice night. I really enjoyed our time together.
Then about 2/3 into a movie, she gets bored and gets on her smartphone. I stop the movie in part of my frustration of her being on her phone (since it was her way of contacting the OM).

Then out of the blue, she starts talking about what happened....
She wants to know to what extend do my parents know about what happened. I was caught off guard. I told her that they knew a minimum amount.

She said that the reason she did what she did was that she wanted attention & she was lonely. That when I would come home from work, I would be upstairs on the computer. She works as a nurse from 7 til 7 or 8 & I get off work at or 6. Usually when she got home she just wanted to watch her shows on tv. Most of the shows I'm just not that into that much.....Bachlorette, Dancing w/ Stars, etc. So I would come downstairs when she got home, give her a hug & kiss...then eventually go upstairs & get online while she watched her tv shows.

Anyway, after I found out about her affair, I confronted her & she basically didnt say anything. I asked her to stop contact with this guy but all she could say was that she was lonely & benn unhappy for a long time...

I wasnt going to let her blame me so I left. I left our home for 6 weeks. During this time I moved all my personal stuff out of the house.

(see my past topics below)

Wife's Cyber Affair...says nothing to do with us - Marriage BuildersŪ Forums

Update: Cyber Affair

--------------------------------------------------------

During our talk last night, she also said that she has appologized to me several times & that I have yet to appologize for exposing her to her family...esp to her brother. She doesnt know how she will ever repair her relationship with her brother now that he has seen the online conversations that she had with the OM. She said that what she said with the OM was private & no one else needed to know about it.
That her online fling was just a fantasy for attention....that when she got it out of her system she could proceed with her life from there with leaving me.
(I guess it was kinda of an exit affair for her)

She said that what she did,..... did not constitute me telling her family & embarassing her in front of them. I had to hold my tongue...

Then she said that she was depressed that she felt that I was slipping back into my old habits....that when she asks me to do something, that I should do it right away, no questions asked & with no sign of frustration on my part.
She explained that when she was a kid, her parents told her no a lot, and would say yes to about anything her older brother wanted. Now later in life, she says she feels whenever anyone tells her no, she feels unloved. So when I don't jump up and do whaever she asks of me, she feels unloved, uncared for & unappreciated.


That when I ask or make comments to her about what she is doing on her phone, it frustrates her. She says that implys that she is doing something wrong. She said that she is not talking to anyone with her phone. She is tired of me asking or making comments about her using her phone.

On the contrary, in my eyes, she has not apologized at all. Nor has she shown any sign or remorse:

* She is still checking her profile on her dating site, not answering but reading the messages these guys send to her. This has been going for 3 months now....she checks about 3-5 times a week.
She checks the site on her off days, while at work & even in the same room with me.
Usually when I am at home, she waits until I am asleep to check.

She has also been searching thru profiles on the dating site as well...
she even tried to access the profile that I made....my alter ego...I had since deleted it.

* She still has her phone locked. Her phone has been the medium for her affair with this guy. I hate the phone now & see how destructive smartphones can be in the people who will cheat.

* And more thing that she has done.... Like I said, I have been back in our house since Aug 31 (3 months now). On voting day, Tuesday Nov 6, I had to go out of town for my job. That was her off day from work. I left with kisses, hugs, etc. Thought I left that morning on a good note & she seemed happy.
We texted throughout the day....lovey stuff....about what to have for dinner, etc.
She called me on my way back to see how I was doing. She texted me to ask me that once I got off the interstate hwy, to text her letting her know I was home & to pick up cat food before I come home. Well I texted her when I got off the hwy exit & even picked up cat food.
We had dinner & everything seemed fine. I decided to go to bed, but had a gut feeling to check on things. So I checked on the phone records.
There it was....she had called this OM & talked to him for 80 minutes. I suspect the only reason she ended the call was b/c of my text telling her I was close to being home. She ended the call 3 minutes after my text.

I was so sad about finding this out. That next day at work was awful....I felt like dying.

-------------------------------------
Toxic Friend to marriage?

There is one friend of hers (lets call her Pam) that knew what my WW did. How do I know...b/c I have read the texts btwn her & my WW. During our talk last night, I asked my WW did her friend know prior to d-day. She said that she knew some stuff.
The texts btwn the two confirm that her friend Pam knew about my WW's "friend" as she called him. She asked my WW about her "friend" & told her that she wanted my WW to be happy regardless of who she was with....she just wanted her to stay in town & not move away.

I know some have said that the path to reconciliation is to purge yourself of all friends that knew of the affair. I just don't see my WW ever doing this. She just won't be able to....they work together sometimes. The are friends outside of work.
They are right now watching the Twilight movie together. But this involves some deception as well. Little does her friend now, but my WW & I have already seen this movie. She couldnt dare tell her friend that she has seen the movie already...it would hurt her friends feelings since her friend Pam considered watching the movie as a group event. Anyway, my WW said that she could put on act for her friend & act surprised at the movie's finale.

---------------------------------
What to do?.....

My WW & I are going on a cruise for a week...in 2 weeks. I get the impression that she has been telling her friend(s) & folks that going on a cruise is a way for her & me to reconnect....and to rekindle our romance for each other.

Then when we get back, a few days later...the day after Christmas.....she will have hysterectomy surgery. This is my b-day as well. Happy b-day to me...

I'm not sure if I should confront her with what I know (her checking dating site profile & 80 min phone call to OM) after her surgery or not. My thinking is that I have helped her in a time of need, but she is still betraying me.
We found out about her needing the surgery about 4 days before she called the OM....and she has been checking/searching the dating site since learning about the need for surgery.
Basically she hasnt stopped looking on the dating site since I moved back home.

Part of me has let this situation last as long as it has b/c I wanted peace of mind that it was not my fault that my wife cheated on me. That it is her...something inside her lets her be this way.
That she is broken & needs therapy.
I think I have finally accepted this. Its taken me a long time to accept.

Sorry for my rant. I just hope someone can learn from my experience & doesnt have to go thru the pain I have been thru.

Last edited by jeff_r; 12-02-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

You've put up with a lot. She told you that when she says "jump," the only thing you should say is "how high."

I am glad you are finally realizing some things about your wife.

Did you ever consider that this could be true about you as well:

something inside her lets her be this way. That she is broken & needs therapy

What would be your reason for NOT confronting her with her repeated unacceptable behavior in your marriage? Why do you think you should NOT say something about her having an active profile on a dating site and continued contact with her affair partner, while hiding these things from you? I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't understand why you would put up with it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

So you went back and nothing has really changed much at all. Back to the status quo but you're just more attentive to her now so that she won't cheat again.

And on top of that, you've got to get on your hands and knees and beg her forgiveness for exposing her to her family and friends.

So, what have you gained out of all of this???

And the icing on the cake, she's still in contact with the OM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Will_Kane View Post
You've put up with a lot. She told you that when she says "jump," the only thing you should say is "how high."

I am glad you are finally realizing some things about your wife.

Did you ever consider that this could be true about you as well:

something inside her lets her be this way. That she is broken & needs therapy

What would be your reason for NOT confronting her with her repeated unacceptable behavior in your marriage? Why do you think you should NOT say something about her having an active profile on a dating site and continued contact with her affair partner, while hiding these things from you? I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't understand why you would put up with it.
Oh I appreciate your response...I need a 2x4 hit across me...

I guess I have always been a conflict avoider......
The past conflicts & arguments that I have had with her have always turned out being really upsetting to me. She remembers all these times & has used them against me.
She is a very resentful type of person.

I guess I am afraid of the confrontation....idk..

I don't understand why I have either....I'm scared.
Scared of facing the reality. I mean I talk a good game about leaving her & telling her off....but that is always in the future. Its something I tell myself that I will eventually do.

I also think it is b/c I wanted to convince myself that it is not me...that is it her. That no matter how 'good' I act & do what she wants me to do....she will continue doing what she has been doing.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So you went back and nothing has really changed much at all. Back to the status quo but you're just more attentive to her now so that she won't cheat again.

And on top of that, you've got to get on your hands and knees and beg her forgiveness for exposing her to her family and friends.

So, what have you gained out of all of this???

And the icing on the cake, she's still in contact with the OM.
I used to think that i gained some peace of mind that I am not the culprit in what happened.....

Well, yes I do take responsibility for my half of the problems in our relationship, but those were not a reason for her to cheat.
She made the decision to do that.

It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

So she is still cheating on you.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So she is still cheating on you.
Yeah, I guess she is.
Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.

She just looks at the messages these guys send to her...she doesnt respond back.

I think it has a lot to do with validation for her. Her beauty is something she has always talked about.

But when I confront her about it, she will say that she created the dating profile when we were separated (which is true) and that she truly thought we were over.

My questions to her would be:

Ok, even though we were 'separated'...why were you so quick to put a profile up. I mean, I was just out of the house for 2 weeks when you put that profile up. ???

Then, why are you still actively accessing your dating profile to read messages that were sent to you and to look at other mens profiles on this site. ???

She'll come up with some answers.


I really believe that her friend Pam is a toxic friend to our marriage. She knew about the OM & said nothing about the morality of it to my WW.
She was though glad that my WW "was giving Jeff another chance. He at least deserves that much."
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

You're in False R, big time.

Written all over it. Don't let her blame anything on you. And you need to stop holding your tongue and set her straight on exposure and everything else. She had an affair! The last thing she should be worried about is being embarrassed.

If you continue to go soft jeff its only going to repeat any time she feels 'lonely' again.

Shes gone back on everything, and still being in contact with OM??!!?!

Kick her out/file divorce

You let this stand your marriage has absolutely no chance. She needs to know you won't tolerate any of this, AT ALL.

That unless your R demands are followed its over.

Trying to be a nice guy after infidelity WILL NOT WORK. I implore you, please take a stand and man up before this gets even worse.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

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Originally Posted by jeff_r View Post
It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.
What,you've never been alone in your life before?
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finally talked some / Toxic Friends

I wouldnt be shocked if it was physical already. I would bet money something was going on.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It is scary to think that i could eventually be alone. Not having someone in my life is a scary thought.
You're only alone if you choose to be.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yeah, I guess she is.
Her looking on her dating site profile is cheating to me.
It makes me feel awful...like she is fishing for potentials.

She just looks at the messages these guys send to her...she doesnt respond back.

I think it has a lot to do with validation for her. Her beauty is something she has always talked about.

But when I confront her about it, she will say that she created the dating profile when we were separated (which is true) and that she truly thought we were over.

My questions to her would be:

Ok, even though we were 'separated'...why were you so quick to put a profile up. I mean, I was just out of the house for 2 weeks when you put that profile up. ???

Then, why are you still actively accessing your dating profile to read messages that were sent to you and to look at other mens profiles on this site. ???

She'll come up with some answers.


I really believe that her friend Pam is a toxic friend to our marriage. She knew about the OM & said nothing about the morality of it to my WW.
She was though glad that my WW "was giving Jeff another chance. He at least deserves that much."
That is a very telling quote. I'm glad you posted it. It gives you a look inside the thought process of both your wife and her toxic friend. It tells you that in their eyes:

1. Your wife has done nothing wrong. You have. (exposing, etc.)

2. Even though you've done wrong, you deserve another chance (why? you've groveled enough, she's gotten her reveng on you and you've put with it, you could fill in the blank better than me).

3. Taken in context with your wife's dating site, she is ready to leave you at any moment. Her and Pam could have some great adventures together. She is giving you another chance. Better jump when she says so. Better apologize. She's got guys lined up on a dating site waiting for her. She's giving you another chance, but you BETTER not screw it up this time and you BETTER DO WHAT SHE WANTS. THIS is how she sees the situation. She has plenty of alternatives. You have none. You better be happy with what you get from her, or else she'll take even that little bit away.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You're in False R, period.

Written all over it. Don't let her blame anything on you. And you need to stop holding your tongue and set her straight on exposure and everything else. She had an affair! The last thing she should be worried about is being embarrassed.

If you continue to go soft jeff its only going to repeat any time she feels 'lonely' again.
It hurts to know this looks like false R....

I just have a gut feeling that she will not accept any of the rules of reconcilliation...transparency, etc, etc

Then I will have to accept that she is gone & I can do no more.
I'm sad knowing this.

In her mind, we just need to move away (somewhere like Atlanta...we are in Fla)
And in her mind, this is so we can get away from my over protective mother. That the reasons I have "problems" in our relationship, is b/c of my mom.
I don't see it, but my WW thinks this.

Its a really odd mixture of things that my WW resents me about:
- my mom & how she raised me (I am sometime shy)
- I am sometimes uncomfortable in places that I have never been to before
- she wants me to have white teeth
- she wants me to be buff (but she is 250 lbs)
- I should not mention that she needs to lose weight
- she wants me to have honesty (yeah I thought this one was funny too)

So, I got her to write down a list of things....and those above were on that list with a few other things.
Bizarre & unsettling are just my first reactions.....
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeff_r View Post
It hurts to know this looks like false R....

I just have a gut feeling that she will not accept any of the rules of reconcilliation...transparency, etc, etc

Then I will have to accept that she is gone & I can do no more.
I'm sad knowing this.

In her mind, we just need to move away (somewhere like Atlanta...we are in Fla)
And in her mind, this is so we can get away from my over protective mother. That the reasons I have "problems" in our relationship, is b/c of my mom.
I don't see it, but my WW thinks this.

Its a really odd mixture of things that my WW resents me about:
- my mom & how she raised me (I am sometime shy)
- I am sometimes uncomfortable in places that I have never been to before
- she wants me to have white teeth
- she wants me to be buff (but she is 250 lbs)
- I should not mention that she needs to lose weight
- she wants me to have honesty (yeah I thought this one was funny too)

So, I got her to write down a list of things....and those above were on that list with a few other things.
Bizarre & unsettling are just my first reactions.....
It doesn't 'look' like false R, it is false R, accept that.

These aren't hiccups.

-NC broken (You should already be filing paperwork over this, man up or it'll only continue)

-Not remorseful

-Not owning what she did

-Blameshifting

-keeping toxic friends

-not enforcing new boundaries

-cell phone still locked

I can go on, but I think you get the point.

This is false R and you're in it, don't put your head in the sand on this.

I'll elaborate in a bit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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That is a very telling quote. I'm glad you posted it. It gives you a look inside the thought process of both your wife and her toxic friend. It tells you that in their eyes:

1. Your wife has done nothing wrong. You have. (exposing, etc.)

2. Even though you've done wrong, you deserve another chance (why? you've groveled enough, she's gotten her reveng on you and you've put with it, you could fill in the blank better than me).

3. Taken in context with your wife's dating site, she is ready to leave you at any moment. Her and Pam could have some great adventures together. She is giving you another chance. Better jump when she says so. Better apologize. She's got guys lined up on a dating site waiting for her. She's giving you another chance, but you BETTER not screw it up this time and you BETTER DO WHAT SHE WANTS. THIS is how she sees the situation. She has plenty of alternatives. You have none. You better be happy with what you get from her, or else she'll take even that little bit away.


I see the sarcasm....

She does think that she did something wrong, but feels it did not warrant telling her family about it.

That her online fling with this guy had nothing to do between her & me. She feels that it was a side note...that we were already having problems.
I think that is BS & a cop out.

Yes I see it the same way. I think she feels she can leave anytime & there will be a guy waiting to be with her. That she can be choosy & pick whomever strikes her fancy.
That if I screw up, there is always an escape for her out of our relationship.

Of course, I will screw up something....its inevitable. She can then justify to her friends & mom in leaving me.

Its a no win situation for me....she feels entitled & wronged by me in exposing her.

I hurts to hear "give Jeff another chance".
Another chance b/c of what?
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