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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 12-05-2012, 10:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Need help coping

I'm not sure if I just need to vent, or if I'm looking for advice. I just feel like I need feedback from others who have dealt with the same problems to help sort out what's "normal" about what I'm feeling. Long back story, so, thanks in advance to those who take the time to read it.

I'm a very distrustful person. Let me start with that. I have obsessive thoughts about people lying to me or trying to hurt me. I know that comes from growing up in an abusive household. So, I've learned to stuff those thoughts as being 'unreasonable' most of the time. I just want that up front as emotionally I tend to 'feel' the worst case possible, so logically I overcompensate and try to give the 'benefit of the doubt'.

I'm 42, wife just turned 44. Married 21 years, 3 kids (one in college 2 in high school). My job has moved me around a lot for work. 2 of the kids were born with medical issues. So, in the 'younger' years we were always a very tight nit family. Needed to rely on each other a lot, and because of the moves didn't have many friends that were not 'family' friends.

5 years ago we moved back to our hometown. Wife was very social in high school and her family is very active in civic matters in town. So, she knows hundreds of people who live near us. She connected over facebook with old friends from high school. Became active on the reunion committee and started going to various informal gatherings that took place mainly at bars to sing karaoke.

I'm a much less social person. I'm more happy at home, playing video games or working around the house in the evenings. I would go with her sometimes, but more often I would not. I didn't really like those people in high school, and from the couple of times I went, they haven't changed much.

3 years ago my wife's mother died. She took that loss very hard. But didn't want to talk about it, because 'it made her cry'. She started to go out more. Also joined a local community theater. She was out more nights than she was home, and when I requested she be home more, she would get angry with me and tell me she didn't want to be home if all I was going to do was be in the basement playing video games. The kids were getting older and needed her less and she wanted to have a life.

She started working on losing weight. Was dressing nicer and looking good. I would joke with her (prior to Dday) that I'd better keep an eye on her. She would tell me I had nothing to worry about, she was all mine and would never think about cheating (ha! what a crock of ****).

Most of 2011 we felt disconnected. I knew our relationship was 'off'. I suspected something could be going on. But I had a hard time coming to grips with that. I figured out the password to her phone and facebook and started keeping tabs on her. There was some sexual banter with the theater folks. But more like you would hear when joking around with a 'bawdy' crowd. Nothing that I would say was 'flirty'.

Shortly before our anniversary she started making plans to have lunch with someone she has known since the 3rd grade. I'll call him Joe. She didn't tell me anything, so, all I had to go on was the texts. Nothing sexual, just 'lunch' and a 'big hug' because they haven't seen each other in decades. I feel I made a mistake in confronting her at this point. I didn't have proof of anything, and it tipped my hand that I was looking over her shoulder. (this was June 2011). She claimed he was 'just a friend' and what not. I was still livid. I told her if that was true, she could invite him AND his wife over for dinner sometime, but not have a private lunch with only him. She claimed that would be 'uncomfortable' now that I was so suspicious.

She didn't change her passwords. But I could tell by reconciling to the bill she was deleting texts. I asked her not to and she would always come up with the **** & bull story that she was just freeing up space on her phone.

Just before Memorial day 2012 I caught Facebook (FB) chat from Joe planning a lunch date for memorial day. As the day approached I was waiting for her to lie to me for some excuse to get out Memorial day afternoon so I could confront her. She didn't mention anything about it, so I checked her FB again on Sunday. Turns out they both didn't realize is was Memorial day, so the canceled their plans. I wanted to save that log prior to her deleting it, but wasn't sure how to do that from FB. So, i tried to 'archive' thinking it would download it. But it just disappeared. I read up on Archiving and figured out it just saves it, but it no longer appears in the messages tool. So, i went into the archive to 'undo' what I had done so she wouldn't notice.

That's when i saw another thread from July with another high school acquaintance. I'll call him John. It was full throttle cybersex. Him asking her questions about her breasts and if she liked to feel cum inside her and what a great time they could have. She was leading him along, not trying to stop the chat, but insisted that they maintain 'boundaries' as they wouldn't want to get in trouble. WTF? There was a reference to another chat where he thought she had masturbated while they chatted. Ugh, so disgusting to think about. She always shamed me when I would masturbate and told me she tried it once when she was younger but didn't like it.

I was devastated. I was hoping to this point that it was just my distrustful nature. That she wouldn't really do anything to betray me. But here I had it. Proof she was at least in an EA with this POSOM. This thread was from July 2011. I this guy was at one of the high school gatherings she went to without me back in December 2010. She also tried going to another gathering in December 2011. But I decided last minute to go with, and she came up with some lame reason for not wanting to go. So, my conclusion that she hadn't been physical with this guy prior to July 2011. I think she was open to the idea, but maybe I caught it before it got that far.

I copied those posts and saved them on a thumb drive and hid that. I confronted her when she got home. 1st about her setting up a lunch date with "Joe". She stuck to her "he is just a friend" story and said she would have told me, but since they canceled she didn't see a point in bringing it up. I said I didn't care. If she even was thinking about having lunch alone with another guy. She needed to tell me about it before setting a date, and then only go if I felt the guy in question was 'safe'. As I didn't know Joe, he was not safe. She said I had 'nothing to worry about'.

So, I then asked her, "is there anything I should be worried about?" If not with Joe, how about with anyone? Did she ever kiss anyone? Let anyone grab her ass? Ever have an inappropriate text or chat conversation? She looked me straight in the eye, and without missing a beat said, "no, never. I would never do that to you."

I quoted a line her chat with John. I could tell from the look on her face she knew she was busted. I went off like an abomb. Kids in the next room and all, I no longer cared to keep calm. I was crying like I've never cried before (I rarely cry) and screaming at her, calling her a **** and liar. I told her to come clean now. She then admitted to the chat with John. She said there were also similar chats with another guy who i didn't know. But she said it was never physical and that she stopped it last year shortly after those texts as she 'felt sick to her stomach' about doing it.

I told her I wasn't buying it. They were still friends on her FB. That although she hadn't been to a high school gathering in six months, she was still in contact and planing to go again at some point.

She was stunned, obviously remorsefully. But I'd say more remorseful over being caught than what she did. She wanted to rugsweep and rugsweep fast. I told her it wasn't going to happen. I told her to go unfriend anyone on FB that she either flirted with, or encouraged her flirting. I told her she was to no longer delete texts and chat and that I would be watching. Anything deleted in my book would be cheating. I don't care if it was just a happy birthday note to Dad. Don't delete it! I exposed her to our pastor and he referred us to a family counselor for MC.

She removed about a dozen FB 'friends'. Some male, some female. Mostly high school people. Her posts were 'less flirty', but there was still some flirting going on that I was quick to point out to her and use as examples of things that pissed me off to see. She would call other guys handsome and sweetie. She told me she was just being nice, trying to build them up. I asked what for? Did she realize that was tearing me down, and leading them on to thinking maybe she was attracted to them. She got the point and cut that out.

Through MC, both of us realized we had some pretty major individual issues. So, we have put MC on hold for a few months to focus on IC. I'm still holding her accountable to 'follow my rules' (yes, more than a bit controlling, but oh well). I have her computer keylogged and haven't seem anything. I keep an eye on texts vs the phone bill and she deleted one message from one of the theater guys. The were joking about dildos. That was about a month after Dday. Nothing since.

From what I can observe she seems to be doing everything I've asked. I still just can't shake the feelings of anger and sadness. I've quit video games. Started working out. Playing my clarinet more. The anger and depression are not constant like they were the first few months. But it still comes on daily. Usually when I'm at work, or laying in bed trying to fall asleep. I just can't stop my mind from racing with the 'what ifs" (what if she didn't tell me the whole truth, what if she just took it deeper underground, what if, what if, what if!).

Does it ever stop? I like the name of the forum. So, I'll use it in the form of a question. "How do you cope with infidelity?" I know there is no one answer to that. Heck, maybe i'm asking it rhetorically. Maybe I have no idea what I'm doing posting here.

Thanks again to those who took the time to read this. I'd appreciate any input on how I handled the situation. And now that I'm am where I am, what should I be doing to stop the obsessive thoughts. Or should I embrace them? I feel like a mental case.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help coping

I dont think the thoughts go away. Im several years out and still think about it constantly. Always wonder where WH is when he's not here, is he talking to OW, did they meet for lunch, is he just giving me enough to keep my radar off. Its a miserable way to live and Im sorry you're living it.

If she is doing everything you think she can to proves she is being honest then you are going to have to find a way to let some of it go. It never all goes away. You have a handicap in that you already had issues because of your past with no trusting. Are you in individual counseling?
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help coping

Yes, we are both seeing individual therapists every other week (her therapist is our MC, my IC is a different therapist). I'm going to Adult Children of Alcholics meetings weekly to work on my issues.

She is doing all the right things. NC, I can track her phone, see her FB. I don't think she knows I keylogged her computer. She hasn't deleted anything since the one a month after Dday (which I caught from the phone bill). She is very good about telling me where she is going, who she is with and such. So, logically I don't see any red flags. I just wished the emotions would catch up. Maybe I'm just depressed realizing they never will. I'll always be suspicious. Maybe I'll stop checking constantly and obsessing. But, I'll never trust her like I used to.

I'm working on 'healthy trust' as my therapist calls it. Trusting a little, and giving more trust as it's earned. Also decreasing trust when it's broken. My therapist says complete trust is not healthy, and it's okay if I never fully trust her again. As long as I can get to a point where I trust her enough. (Sounds so ambigious, I strugle with the concept).
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help coping

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Originally Posted by Acoa View Post
I'm working on 'healthy trust' as my therapist calls it. Trusting a little, and giving more trust as it's earned. Also decreasing trust when it's broken. My therapist says complete trust is not healthy, and it's okay if I never fully trust her again. As long as I can get to a point where I trust her enough. (Sounds so ambigious, I strugle with the concept).
Like the concept. I'd be glad to hear a little more if you may.

I instinctively embraced the idea that blind trust was not actually that good to begin with. I heard somewhere about "healthy level of distrust". I believe it forced me to be more "present" in the marriage, not taking things for granted or living in autopilot. Just the awareness of "it" makes the deal.
I'm three years after DDay and doing well.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help coping

What she did is totally inappropriate.

You trust is gone, and it will take a long time to regain, if you choose to.

I think you have rugswept her affairs. You don't have full truth.

Without full truth, transparency, honesty in words, and remorse, how do you think you could reconcile?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help coping

I am sorry you have to deal with this. It is interesting that her behavior changed after her mother passed away.

After my STBXW's mother and father died, 4 months apart, her behavior changed dramatically. She joined FB, became much more outgoing, started spending a lot of money on new clothes and shoes. The biggest change was her affair.

She hooked up with an old school friend on FB and proceeded to have a 2 year EA/PA. I was not fortunate like you...I didn't catch her in time. After I did catch on, she lied and TT'd me for over a year.

She did tell me that after her parents died she began to feel lonely, like an orphan. I believe she began to reevaluate her life and priorities. She wanted to go out and have fun and her family and children became a lower priority...a super selfish state of mind. I have read that the loss of a parent, a child, or even a job can be the catalyst for a MLC. From what I've seen here, MLC's almost always involve an affair.

Good luck to you.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm going to Adult Children of Alcholics meetings weekly to work on my issues.
Ok, what I’m about to say is from my experience – yours may be different. I feel that I can directly relate to your history and thought processes.

Trust is your Achilles heel - that's the result of that type childhood. You live in a state of constant and compulsive fears & worries. It's a crappy way to live - and I know you hate it.

Unfortunately, it’s nearly impossible to keep your mind from analyzing everything... then analyzing it again... from every angle. You’ve learned from childhood to do this, in fact, you had a self-preservation need to do so.

To turn your brain off (never stops, huh?), you resorted to mental escapism activities… .such as video games. At least that’s what I did. I'm a bit surprised you didn't have your own battle with alcohol at some point in your life (self medication).


Your other problem is that nothing escapes you. You may not have all the facts or details, but when your nose gets on a trail... you usually find something. Your brain will keep grinding away at anything in life that seems slightly odd. My 1st wife took a cell phone call in front of me, everything seemed fine on face value – her disposition, the discussion, the reason for the call, etc. However, I saw an ever subtle eye movement – brief, just a split second. That’s all, that’s it. I knew instantly she was cheating. From there, I snooped and confirmed all my worst fears. That is our curse… we notice every action, movement, expression... no matter how subtle. We bank it, grind it, and come up with a hundred hypotheses about it… then we go into observe & search mode.

Why a curse? Because we do that for everything in our lives, it’s not just limited to fears about cheating. It’s utterly exhausting. However there is one benefit, the trait served me very well in my career.

I'm really proud of you:
1) You're doing group
2) You're working IC & MC
3) You've bettered yourself
4) You've made a choice to reduce introvertive escapism activities (e.g. the video games).

You're going to take longer to recover than normal people. Only a little over a year out? I think you're par for the course.

Also, your wife will need to give you extra special understanding & patience. She should know this... if not, bring it up in MC.

One tip. Tell yourself, right now, that you will always say yes to going out to events/functions/etc when your wife asks. Don’t make it into a choice for you, just think it’s mandatory. “Yes” is the only word you know from now on when asked if you want to go do XZY. And since you’re going to say yes anyway, make it a very positive yes. No ho-hums or sighs. If you do this, your wife will be amazed and extremely happy. Eventually, you may even enjoy going out and find yourself worrying a lot less. I am now fearless at parties, dinner events, mixers. I don’t mind walking up to a group of complete strangers and just starting a conversation – in fact it amuses me now. How odd.


You’re taking the right steps.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Like the concept. I'd be glad to hear a little more if you may.
Regarding the 'healthy trust' concept. It came up as we talked about my overal trust issues and how they related to my coming to grips with how to (or not to) trust my WW.

My therapist pointed out how I was saying things, I was being very black or white. Either I trusted, or I didn't trust. I was having a hard time because any little thing that could be a sign, I was immediatly assuming the worst. Then I'd lash out at my wife. Basically I'm in a cycle where I either hold it in and explode, or assault her with a constant stream of accusations.

She asked me if our marriage could work if I never trust her? To which I had to say no. I don't think a marriage can work without trust.

Then she asked, do I see myself ever trusting her as blindly as I did before the affairs? To which I had to admit, no. I don't ever see myself being that trusting again.

It seemed to me like that dooms the marriage. Which she pointed out it doesn't have to. I don't have to have blind trust. I just have to trust enough that she wouldn't do it again. But be distrusting enough to pay attention to the signs. That if something comes up and it could be a sign, it needs to be investigated. What's different, is I don't have to feel bad about investigating it. I don't need to feel bad about checking on her to make sure she isn't cheating on me. Because, my WW has taught me that if I give her blind trust, she has the capability to abuse it. So, she doesn't deserve it.

I read somewhere else that trust is like rungs on a ladder. When you 1st meet someone, one person has to take a risk and 'give' the other person a little trust. Then see how they respond. The example given was like a guy giving a girl his phone number. If she calls him, she returned that trust. So, you can give a little more. This give and take is good, and if you build it in balance it's good. But if the trust is not returned, you need to back off and that's it. The end of the line. You can't keep piling trust into a black hole where none is returned. It's not healthy. You cannot be the black hole either. So, that needs to be fixed or there is no relationship.

Still working on applying that visual to my life. But the concept helps.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think you have rugswept her affairs. You don't have full truth.

Without full truth, transparency, honesty in words, and remorse, how do you think you could reconcile?
I don't think i'm rugsweeping. I've even went so far as to lessen her risk, by giving her a window to tell me the truth. She had till June to confess anything. No matter what she said I told her I would stay and work on it if she was willing. But if I find out she lied about the extent or number of affairs after that, I would go straight to the lawyer to have divorce papers drawn up.

She is either very confident that there is no evidence or I have the full truth. I'm suspicious to the core. So, even if I 'think' i have the full truth. I'll always be hunting for the lie. That trait is so deeply imbedded in who I am, I can't turn it off. So, I'll accept it.

We also talk about my trust issues. When something bothers me, I investigated. She is getting good at not being defensive about it. She used to blow up at me for 'not trusting her'. She can never say that again. I'm allowed to not trust her. I'm not allowed to accuse her. I can ask, I can investigate and I can snoop. But I won't accuse without proof. But she doesn't hinder my investigations, or get offended by them. She knows I need that, and she is learning to deal with it.

I don't think that's rug sweeping.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You’re taking the right steps.
Thanks, I really relate to what you have said. I did struggle with drug and alcohol addiction. I started when I was 11 and quit at 18. I didn't want to be like dad. Unfortunately I only substituted gaming for drugs. But at least I am aware now.

Thanks again for your response.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To help restore trust and to get the truth out you need to have your WW polygraph tested.

Last edited by theroad; 12-06-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Acoa, makes sense.

Hope things keep getting better.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think what you're feeling is pretty normal.

You don't sound as if you were overly distrustful before this came to light, nor since.

You handled the situation well.

If your wife saw these people in person who she sexted or cybered with, then you really have to wonder if she had sex with them. You don't seem to think so, but if it is something that bothers you, and your wife is willing to do everything you ask to help you heal, consider asking for a polygraph. If it doesn't matter to you, then don't bother.

Aside from your wife doing what you need to re-establish trust, the next best thing to help you get over it is time.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:17 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Or else...

You get the picture. Don't underestimate what you are dealing with.

I hope you don't need your lie hunting skills. (maybe should be truth hunting)
So many "or else.." possibilities. And of course my brain can't stop exploring them all, evaluating, determining how to exclude or confirm. It's exhausting.

I like your 'truth hunting' comment. I've always focused on the lie. The lie can be so many things. But the truth is the truth. There is only one truth. We can color the truth, but that's back to lying.

When I investigate my wife's actions with the lens that I'm trying to detect a lie, it's accusatory by nature. I'm really digging to to exclude all the wild possibilities, so that I am confident in the truth. I think this is a much better way to look at it. It puts the owness back on to my insecurity and distrust.

I don't think my wife is bad person, or dishonest by nature. I think she made some bad choices and had poor boundries then was dishonest about it. She is working on that with her therapist, and I've been very clear to her that her honesty is paramount to reconciliation. I had my truth hunting skills turned off for the past few years. I was occupying my mind so that I didn't have to deal with the pain unfolding in my life. I'm done with that. I'm fully awake again, and I will keep my eyes open and take notice of everything. She will either accept that or not. We will either sucessfully reconcile or not. The two are linked.

The hard part will be down the road. I almost don't want the pain to fade. It keeps my guard up. I don't wan to let my guard down. But I can't live on a constant state of red alert either. Can I?
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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What she did is totally inappropriate.

You trust is gone, and it will take a long time to regain, if you choose to.

I think you have rugswept her affairs. You don't have full truth.

Without full truth, transparency, honesty in words, and remorse, how do you think you could reconcile?
I didn't like the rugsweeping comment. But the more I ponder this, the more I have to admit you are probably correct. At least to a degree. I like your requirements for reconciliation... "full truth, transparency, honesty in words, and remorse"

Full Truth: She claims I do. She did give me some details that I did not have evidence to prove. So, she has given me more truth than I had discovered on my own. However she was very 'forgetful/dismissive' of details. She gets agitated when I press for more information, saying things like "you won't be happy until I make up something worse!". So, my gut is telling me that there is more to it. I'm just not sure. If more it there, I'd like to know. But it's also possible that I'm just looking for more. I'm letting it go for now. But it's something I'm going to revisit in MC.

Transparency: She is doing very well in this area. I know all passwords. She tells me where she is going, who she will be with and when she will be back. On the sly I keep an eye on her car odometer, track her phone's GPS and have a keylogger on her laptop. So far everything checks out.

Honesty in words: Too soon to judge. When she says she loves me, or that I'm the best, it still stings. If I was all that great, why did she cheat? As far as sticking to our agreement and transparency goes, what she says is supported by what she does. So, from what I can observe it's good.

Remorse: Very weak in this area. She was very 'sorry' when I confronted her. Or when I breakdown. I gather that she is sorry for getting caught. I even believe she is sorry that I'm hurting because of her actions. I just don't know if she is sorry for the multiple EAs. She never asked me to forgive her. She never initiates conversations about our relationship unless we are in MC. When I bring something up, she is responsive for a little while, but has an annoying habit of changing the topic. That is very annoying. I used to just drop it. But lately I've been calling her out on her topic changing, which works at keeping us on topic for a little while. I just can't help feeling like she is worried about hurting me so she isn't giving me everything. She said, "it happened, i know it was wrong, it felt wrong and I stopped. I will never do it again and just want to move forward."

So, I think AngryandUsed may be closer to the mark than I want to admit.
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