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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 01-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

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After talking with my therapist today, telling her what I know, she basically asked me what it was I needed to know from her about the details. I told her, for one, I can't rebuild trust if I know she's still lieing, and two, I don't want to find out a year later once she isn't scared to tell me, that it got physical, because this will start all over, and I will be done. She then asked me if my wife knows I want to work this out, because if she knows, then there is no way I'm going to get it all out of her. After talking with my wife this morning, she's fearing divorce. She told me she wanted to have sex with him, and they did meet out with friends but never had the opportunity to be alone. Honestly, all I need to know is she wanted to and that was enough for me to know I need to get checked for STD's, because there was nothing stopping her from doing the dirty. What was in her mind was enough for me to consider it more than just an EA. It wasn't just teasing and flirting building up, it built up already.

She has agreed to write a NC letter, and also tell her family and friends what she was doing wrong, as well as quit her job. I will inform her that a polygraph is a must if she really wants to prove to me she is not lieing. She is coming with me to couples therapy next week.

I'm giving her a set of boundries of my "Must have" and "Must not haves", and letting her know if they get crossed, I will contact the lawyer and begin divorce proceedings. This is no longer a game to be played, to see how far she can go before she gets caught, any indication of a red flag will be enough for me to end it all. I don't trust her, but I do love her. I don't have it in me to deal with this again.
Dear DavidW,

While you've done better than most guys who come to TAM for help, you still missed the most important thing -- to get your wife to fess up and start flying right, you need to ACT rather than merely THREATEN TO ACT. Until you actually do something that proves there are consequences for her infidelity and deception, your wife has no real incentive to confess and fix her marriage.

My advice is to go see an attorney and ask him to start drawing up the divorce papers. Then, and only then, tell your wife what you've done and say that, if she wants you to even think about stopping the proceedings, she must come totally clean with you about what she's done and agree to a polygraph test. Tell her that, if she does this, and if you believe that she is really remorseful and prepared to do the heavy lifting to fix your marriage, you will consider not going through with the divorce. But say that you're not going to make any quick decisions about that: she will have to really prove herself first, prove that she's being honest and prove that she can be a good wife.

Tell her this in as matter-a-fact manner as you can, displaying no emotion, neither anger or anguish. Don't argue with her. Tell her it's her decision now, you've already made yours, and leave the room.

One other thing. You say that she has agreed to quit her job. Well why hasn't she? More importantly, why haven't you insisted that she quit, not next week, not when she finds a new job, but today? Again, you are not really doing anything, you're just talking.

If you do this, you will present her with a REAL choice of outcomes. Until you do this (or something else that sends her a clear message that you are prepared to walk away, instead of just words to that effect), she will continue to play games with and trickle truth you.

Here's the thing. You said in your original post that you want a strong relationship with your wife. Well then, be a strong husband. Strong husbands don't threaten to leave if their wives doesn't give them what they want. They just leave.

Good luck.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:20 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

A polygraph in my city is $550... she might think I'm bluffing but I made up a list of 10 questions that are straightforward, to the point, and ask exactly what happened. On the front the page, I wrote that if any of these questions come up as a lie, there is no way I could ever trust her again, and I'm leaving. I left a VM for a lawyer today as well...
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:03 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Said this was her last shot for the truth... her marraige will rely on the truth to her statements. She admitted now to a kiss, and he grabbed her butt. They were alone once behind her work when she was leaving... damn trickle truth is such pain in the rear!

She is going to put it in writing and we are scheduled for a poly...
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

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Said this was her last shot for the truth... her marraige will rely on the truth to her statements. She admitted now to a kiss, and he grabbed her butt. They were alone once behind her work when she was leaving... damn trickle truth is such pain in the rear!

She is going to put it in writing and we are scheduled for a poly...
Bet you she'll be google-searching "how to cheat a polygraph" or other polygraph-accuracy related queries. Keep on the lookout for that. Watch her as you get closer to the date and even on the ride to the appointment...you may even get a last minute confession or 2 on the car ride there.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:19 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

David,

What you're experiencing here is the typical reaction of someone who has cheated. They will admit to something Usually something minor like "a" kiss) to hopefully throw you off the trail and sweep it under the rug

If you haven't done so already, do not tell her the exact questions you want asked and you may want to confer with the polygraph tester. They can figure out the best way to pose questions to get the most accurate response possible

Good luck and I hope for your sake it was just "a" kiss (and a butt grab)
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:31 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Have you gotten her texts.? You should be able to get them Rom her cell provider.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:46 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Hello David, Welcome to Hell. I see that your married my ex-wife's clone. You will NEVER get the truth from her, EVER! You are in a fog also, you do this to keep from going crazy. I know, I understand, it's probably for the best right now. You are going to have to plan on ending this "Marriage" on your terms or her's. It is going to end, I can guaranty it. Read the other posters here and learn from them. If you would like to leave this"Marriage" with your balls, file for Divorce Now and NEVER speak to her again. Just my 2 cents but, I have been in your spot. Sorry David W Young
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:22 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

Many times, the forum here gets too emotionally involved. You do not need to rush things like everything needs to be done yesterday.

Yes she needs to find another job. If your finances are tight, make sure while she is still at the job she cannot cheat unless she is Houdini.

This isn't going to be straightened out over night nor should it be. You need time to consider what is right for your family and you.

I did not think there was a chance she would give up her new "life". Evidently, I was wrong. You said you had a great marriage, and she thought you were a wonderful husband. She fell under an alchohol cloud. God knows how many husbands on this site wishes their situation was no worse than what yours apears to be.

Losing her famil and husband has knocked the wind out of her sails.

Ponder long and hard about all the different outcomes. These are life changing decisions for not just you and your wife but your kids.

Find her a normal job where you can live together as a family should. It is a constant refrain here how different shifts, travelling, long hours and long disatnce destroies marriages. Basically its loneliness and the vacumn is filled sooner or later.

Have you read MMSL yet?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:26 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

Which questions will you be asking her?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Many times, the forum here gets too emotionally involved. You do not need to rush things like everything needs to be done yesterday.

Yes she needs to find another job. If your finances are tight, make sure while she is still at the job she cannot cheat unless she is Houdini.

This isn't going to be straightened out over night nor should it be. You need time to consider what is right for your family and you.

I did not think there was a chance she would give up her new "life". Evidently, I was wrong. You said you had a great marriage, and she thought you were a wonderful husband. She fell under an alchohol cloud. God knows how many husbands on this site wishes their situation was no worse than what yours apears to be.

Losing her famil and husband has knocked the wind out of her sails.

Ponder long and hard about all the different outcomes. These are life changing decisions for not just you and your wife but your kids.

Find her a normal job where you can live together as a family should. It is a constant refrain here how different shifts, travelling, long hours and long disatnce destroies marriages. Basically its loneliness and the vacumn is filled sooner or later.

Have you read MMSL yet?
chapparal, im in tears right now as I read this because you are totally right and I know it. Her answers today match what I know of her and her habits. She got her high then fell away when she knew it would destroy things. But at the same time she WAS putting things on hiatus, and within the month of November realized she f'ed up and reconsidered. She did want to leave me... something turned her around, and maybe my reaction to our fights made her realize I was no slouch and I am the man she married. I don't know the full story, and believe she might be calling my bluff still, so I gotta stick to my guns. Maybe just putting the deposit down for a poly will make her see I'm serious. A VAR has got me nothing but her crying so far. I know she is remorseful and wants this to work, I just have to do things to make sure there is no cake.

What is MMSL? Sorry, learned a ton of acronyms the past few days and feel kinda ignorant still to a few. Thanks everyone for all your help!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:48 PM   #71 (permalink)
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The blog and buy the book ASAP. It will show you how this sh!t storm started and how to keep it from happening again.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

BTW it is NOT a sex manual.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:51 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Which questions will you be asking her?
1) Did you kiss him?

Answer: "Don't leave me!", "Once"

2) Did you touch him sexually?

Answer: "No"

3) Did he touch any of your private areas (boobs, butt, between legs)?

Answer: "He grabbed my butt"

4) Did you show him any of those areas?
"No"

5) Did he show you his d***?

Answer: "No"

6) Have you tried to get him alone?

Answer: "No"

7) Did he try to get you alone?

Answer: "Yes, but I was at work."

8) Was there anyone else you 'sexted'?

Answer: "No"

9) Did you try and contact him since November any other way than by text or facebook?

Answer: "No"

10) Did anyone else know you were hiding this from me?

Answer: "No, he met me in the parking lot after work and no one saw us kiss, and he grabbed my butt as we kissed."

After that, I asked how she expected me to beleive all that sexual tension turned into one kiss and a grab of the butt.

Answer: "I did it for the thrill, and once I knew I could get what I wanted I backed away."
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:53 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Finding out more after possible affair is over...

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Originally Posted by chapparal View Post
The blog and buy the book ASAP. It will show you how this sh!t storm started and how to keep it from happening again.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

BTW it is NOT a sex manual.
We kinda have been going at it like rabbits... lol. I will buy it! Thanks!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:53 PM   #74 (permalink)
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MMSL is Married Man Sex Life

Its a blog, a book and a forum but it deals with so much more than just sex. It basically shows you what type of man a woman actually wants. Women want a strong man who takes no crap and leads the family. They don't want a man that is in touch with his emotions. They don't want a man who does what they tell him to do. They don't want a man that thinks but they want a man that acts. Basically everything Cosmo says that women want in a man is complete crap. Let me paste one of Athol Kay's latest blog posts that I think would be relevant to your situation.


What It Means When She Tells You She Kissed Another Man | Married Man Sex Life

What It Means When She Tells You She Kissed Another Man

December 29, 2012 By Athol Kay 37 Comments


Most people are basically moral. Meaning faced with a moderate degree of temptation, they will still do the right thing anyway. There are some crappy people in the world that don’t ever experience temptation, because they have no moral compass and just do whatever they want all the time. Most people are moral… but not saints… everyone has their price where they become okay with doing evil.

For example, ask me to kill a kitten… and I’ll say no. I happen to like kittens. Ask me to kill a kitten for $100 and I’ll still say no. It’s just cruel to think about. $1000… ah… no. $1 million bucks to kill a kitten… and… well… how many dead kittens do you need?

So let’s consider how the morality sliding scale works with affairs. Let’s create a fake couple Anne and Alex and the third wheel Brad and watch the slide from White (morally good) to Black (full blown affair)

White – Anne and Brad know each other and nothing questionable is happening between them.

White/Grey – In this transition point, the first crossing of the line happens between Anne and Brad. Usually it’s simply a low key feeler thrown out from the guy to the girl. Something “non-serious” and easily disclaimed as an accident or no attempt to be offensive. Failure to knock the feeler back by the girl is implied acceptance of the advance to Grey.

Grey – This is the zone where Anne and Brad know that something inappropriate is happening between them, they don’t want Alex to find out about it, but it’s also reasoned as being ”just flirting”, “not cheating”, “harmless fun”. Except it’s not really any of those and is being kept secret. At this point it’s an emotional connection and not physical.

Grey/Black – Anne and Brad kiss. This marks the transition into the affair being more physical. It may not turn into sex with the first episode of kissing, but it can escalate very quickly to sex after the first kiss. It’s a major hurdle to cross.

Black - Anne and Brad are now in a full sexual relationship and there’s a huge desire to hide it from Alex.

The idea for Brad is to navigate Anne through the scale of white to black at a steady pace, without stalling in any of the areas for too long, but not so fast that she hits a moral limit she isn’t prepared to break just yet. So he shouldn’t stall out too long for going for the kiss, but also shouldn’t go from introductory flirting to asking her to suck his **** either. (Try not to think of me as just having given advice on how to seduce someone’s wife, and more explaining how they do it.)

Now from Anne’s point of view…

White – Nothing is inappropriate, I love Alex. Brad is okay.

White/Grey Rejects Brad – I love Alex, Brad was rude.

White/Grey Accepts Brad – I love Alex, Brad is funny.

Grey – I love Alex, but I’m falling in love with Brad.

Grey/Black Rejects Brad – I love Alex, I want Brad but I just can’t do this.

Grey/Black Accepts Brad – I love Alex, but when I’m with Brad I feel amazing, I can’t not do this.

Black – I love Alex, but it’s fading and I’m not in love with him. I’m in love with Brad and I’m starting to love him.

Importantly, if Anne rejects Brad at the White/Grey or Grey/Black transition points, there’s minimal chance she will tell Alex what happened. Most of the time he will never find out anything was happening. If it’s at the White/Grey line, there’s nothing to see and nothing to tell. If it’s at the Grey/Black line, all he’ll know is that she was a little distant there for a while, but then she stopped being a little distant. He quite possibly never notices anything was going on.

Far more interesting is if Anne tells Alex she’s been doing something inappropriate. This is always an ass backwards ultimatum and Fitness Test from her to him. It looks like a confession, but it’s far more than that…

Fitness Test angle first. Brad already knows about Alex, and has been making headway on Anne by indirect and stealthy means. So he does not want a confrontation with Alex. Alex however doesn’t know Brad is making headway on Anne, so he’s not paying particular attention to mate guarding Anne. So Alex is the sleeping Samurai, while Brad is the sneaking Ninja. So when Anne confesses to Alex something is happening with Brad, it’s like she suddenly flips the lights on and it’s all on…. Yo Samurai… there’s a Ninja…Why don’t you and him fight.

Whoever has the strongest overall male frame/presence will carry the day. If Alex turns into a spineless writhing blubbering weakling in front of Anne and weepingly begs her to come back to him… she’ll find a way to go back to Brad. If Alex suddenly reacts with controlled fury and seeks to defend what’s his, Ninja Brad will drop a smoke bomb and vanish.

Ultimatum angle second: Anne let Brad get as far as he did, because there was something lacking in Alex. Look I know that’s hard to hear, but it’s true. So not only does Alex have to puff up and scare Brad off, he’s also got to figure out what Anne is giving him an ultimatum about. She was prepared to risk the entire relationship by telling him about her thing with Brad. If she didn’t want to put the relationship on the line, she would NEVER have told him, she would have just broken it off with Brad.

The good news is that Anne does at least want to have a relationship with Alex… provided of course he fixes the problem.

The bad news is that when she told him about Brad, it was a fairly sanitized version of what really happened. Alex must always assume that worse things happened and find a way to divine the truth as best he can. If it was a case of she slept with Brad and then “gets away with it” by Alex taking her back without knowing, she’ll not respect him.

So Alex must immediately (1) get the other man out of the picture, (2) scare Anne half to death that he’ll possibly divorce her (she will fail to respect him unless he does that), (3) start fixing whatever structural weakness he has in holding Anne’s attraction.

And just to be clear, I’m not saying get in there and start trading punches… as tempting as that may be. I’m saying gather your information and find a way to get them not wanting to be together.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Wow, great read! Thanks for that. All these years I've avoided forums because they are flooded with trolls and people just trying to pass the time by sounding smart. I found a gem here!

All of you folks are awesome!
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