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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 01-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Originally Posted by bigtone128 View Post
How long has it been for yours? My ex's AP keeps in constant contact with her - my son said when she was down for Xmas her cell phone constantly was buzzing with him texting.

I do believe as you said mine will be the type to continually justify her affair.......not one to look at herself and thus incapable for a healthy relationship.
My wife's EA began in 2008. Her PA (with the same POSOM) was in summer 2009 and lasted 4 months. We were in false R until we separated in Sept - THEN she confessed to her 2009 PA.. I actually thought we were making some progress - but I think my stbxw is addicted to the feelings associated with first falling in love. She is addicted to adolescent "puppy love". She just couldn't recapture that feeling with me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

yeah, the false R is a good point. I'm sure my STBXW is using the continued pain, continued guilt, and the continued resentment towards me for not coming back to the table and for coninuing her affair. The fog just rolled in thicker! Now, not only where her needs being unmet by me, but her own need for self validation was getting that much worse! She probably really DID need someone to tell her she was still "great" as she was so afraid to face the pain in my face and looking in the mirror was probably just as bad.

So at that point, is it still my responsibility to shoulder aside my pain, because she is really needing that support? Isn't that where trying to "nice" the person out of the affair is met with disaster?

In her case, I don't know if it is a "fog" or not. I think she is so used to compartmentalizing, that she cannot let anything out of that box. She is the 5 year old girl putting her fingers in her ears yelling "I can't hear you! La la la la la!"
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:47 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Originally Posted by canttrustu View Post
I didnt say it was not his job to meet your needs. I said NO one can meet ALL of your needs. Its impossible and frankly unhealthy.

And yes, he can be shocked if the end of your rope includes you becoming a cheater. There are other options. Counseling. Divorce. Separation. Lots of options. There is NO excuse for cheating.

And it sounds to me like you are IN FACT blaming him for not being able to maintain butterflies and sparkles- which you admit to expecting and is impossible in a long term relationship. You are blameshifting.
You may think so, then again since we are anonymous posters, you can only give your opinion. I appreciate it. I don't agree but it does give me food for thought.

There is NO excuse for neglecting your spouse. None.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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My wife's EA began in 2008. Her PA (with the same POSOM) was in summer 2009 and lasted 4 months. We were in false R until we separated in Sept - THEN she confessed to her 2009 PA.. I actually thought we were making some progress - but I think my stbxw is addicted to the feelings associated with first falling in love. She is addicted to adolescent "puppy love". She just couldn't recapture that feeling with me.
Honestly though could you ever forgive her? I mean, the thought of the sex act of my ex with this dude would be too much to deal with...that combined with memories how she treated me when she was doing stuff with him is over the top.

I recall when I first moved out and I needed a place to lay my head, I called her up and asked her if I could go home and sleep - she was so loving when I talked to her...THEN (which I now know - she called her AP when I was heading home to sleep and he directed her hat to say) my cell rang and she said in an angry tone "if you come by here, march upstairs, don't say a word and go straight into the spare bedroom!".

Memories like these hit me hard and I do not know if I can ever forgive her putting his feelings above my own and treating the father of her children like that....after 30 years of knowing one another.

I'm sorry sex is one thing - treatment is another...
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:52 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Originally Posted by canttrustu View Post
And yes, he can be shocked if the end of your rope includes you becoming a cheater. There are other options. Counseling. Divorce. Separation. Lots of options. There is NO excuse for cheating.

.....

You are blameshifting.
This is exactly it. Those other options are available each and every time; do those other things first! A person has no right to cheat. That Rationalization Hamster never stops!
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Originally Posted by AnnieAsh View Post
You may think so, then again since we are anonymous posters, you can only give your opinion. I appreciate it. I don't agree but it does give me food for thought.

There is NO excuse for neglecting your spouse. None.
Forgive me but cheating is the ultimate in neglect AND abuse.

Last edited by canttrustu; 01-07-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Honestly though could you ever forgive her? I mean, the thought of the sex act of my ex with this dude would be too much to deal with...that combined with memories how she treated me when she was doing stuff with him is over the top.
That's a good question. For my stbxw, it's a matter of her current state of mind. She's had a complete personality change where even her old friends don't really recognize her. She has a completely new set of friends and her old friends didn't know any of the dirty details of her EA - even before it became a PA. So I view my wife as in a fog still. Yes, our marriage had struggled - with kids, careers, activities - we became more like co-parents than husband and wife. But that doesn't excuse her choices.

So I don't know if I could forgive her - but will always wonder so long as she remains in the fog.

BTW - when she finally confessed her 2009 PA to me (weeks after separating) I actually felt relieved because I suspected something was "off" during our false R. I was grateful that she finally told me because it meant I wasn't imagining things. She WAS hiding something. Then I went through a stage where I hated her and was angry just thinking about her. Now I have accepted what happened, more or less.

Anyway sorry for the off-topic. Back to the thread: I agree that the fog is all about the WS feeling good about themselves. And it's a feedback loop. The fog allows the WS to feel OK about doing horrible things - which increases the level of the fog - which allows an increase in the horrible betrayals. A secret EA can morph into a PA - being justified by the fog all the way. When the fog becomes so thick that the WS runs aground - THEN there is a chance for R. But if the WS is able to continually navigate through the fog - then it can continue indefinitely.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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You may think so, then again since we are anonymous posters, you can only give your opinion. I appreciate it. I don't agree but it does give me food for thought.

There is NO excuse for neglecting your spouse. None.
I can only speak for myself, if it were my wife who was considering being unfaithful. If my wife is at the point that she can no longer stand me because of something I am doing or not doing and needs to go to someone else to get what I should be giving her, then she needs to leave me first. And she and I actually had this discussion. It was a promise we made to each other when we were having difficulties about 12 or so years ago. That is the right answer. If I'm not meeting her needs and can't fix it, then we need to part company. I also want that one last wake-up call (and the same goes for her, I won't consider cheating without leaving first). I will not except cheating from my wife and be there to pay for the life style while she get emotional and physical comfort from someone else.

If she ever did it just for the feel good, thrill or infatuation or any of the other nonsense I hear around here .... and I found out about it .... I would throw here out so fast that all she would be is a blur. And then I would make sure that she gets labeled for exactly what she has become. ---- Just Sayin'
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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And it's a feedback loop. The fog allows the WS to feel OK about doing horrible things - which increases the level of the fog - which allows an increase in the horrible betrayals. A secret EA can morph into a PA - being justified by the fog all the way. When the fog becomes so thick that the WS runs aground - THEN there is a chance for R. But if the WS is able to continually navigate through the fog - then it can continue indefinitely.

I would argue this - similar to any other addiction - it is a downward spiral----guilt for affair...more sex...more guilt...more sex...more guilt...etc...
THEN there's a bottom bc the affair drug stops doing for them what it needs to do for the negative feelings to escape...I guess there is a new person around the corner...thus a new drug...but eventually a bottom,,,where reality hits...but my sesne is they will never admit it to themselves - too painful to look at the wreckage.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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I can only speak for myself, if it were my wife who was considering being unfaithful. If my wife is at the point that she can no longer stand me because of something I am doing or not doing and needs to go to someone else to get what I should be giving her, then she needs to leave me first. And she and I actually had this discussion. It was a promise we made to each other when we were having difficulties about 12 or so years ago. That is the right answer. If I'm not meeting her needs and can't fix it, then we need to part company. I also want that one last wake-up call (and the same goes for her, I won't consider cheating without leaving first). I will not except cheating from my wife and be there to pay for the life style while she get emotional and physical comfort from someone else.

If she ever did it just for the feel good, thrill or infatuation or any of the other nonsense I hear around here .... and I found out about it .... I would throw here out so fast that all she would be is a blur. And then I would make sure that she gets labeled for exactly what she has become. ---- Just Sayin'
Easier said than done----do you not think we ALL had these discussions with our spouses before the affair? We said those things because we never dreamed our exes would do them. I said similar things ---- and I did pretty much what I said I would do - go away and not turn back BUT it has been extremely hard and I am surprised of the feelings I have had...so easier said than done...

it just doesn't happen that way - with an open and honest discussion...it happens with cloud of secrecy and subtly over time - like a slow moving, accelerating train and when it hits - you never knew what hit you or from where it came.......
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Easier said than done----do you not think we ALL had these discussions with our spouses before the affair? We said those things because we never dreamed our exes would do them. I said similar things ---- and I did pretty much what I said I would do - go away and not turn back BUT it has been extremely hard and I am surprised of the feelings I have had...so easier said than done...

it just doesn't happen that way - with an open and honest discussion...it happens with cloud of secrecy and subtly over time - like a slow moving, accelerating train and when it hits - you never knew what hit you or from where it came.......
I understand what you are saying, but that is what I would do if she did it. I couldn't live with her after a physical affair. I know it's not easy.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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Easier said than done----do you not think we ALL had these discussions with our spouses before the affair? We said those things because we never dreamed our exes would do them. I said similar things ---- and I did pretty much what I said I would do - go away and not turn back BUT it has been extremely hard and I am surprised of the feelings I have had...so easier said than done...

it just doesn't happen that way - with an open and honest discussion...it happens with cloud of secrecy and subtly over time - like a slow moving, accelerating train and when it hits - you never knew what hit you or from where it came.......
I know for damned sure we did! I told him DURING his A this. When I started to feel that "something was off" I told him if he was unhappy to say so, if he wanted someone else to say so.....He was way too fogged up by then to get any straight answers from him. I have told him since that it would have been easier on me for him to just leave me than to cheat. I still hold to that statement. It would have shown more respect IMO. But it is what it is and he has paid dearly for his 'fun'. No one has given more or lost more than he has. Myself included. I can still look in the mirror and know who I am. He struggles everyday with that. I believe that if he could go back in time and undo this he would. It hasnt been worth the price he's paid. the lost trust and respect. He is working his ass off, as he should, just to get some kind of normalcy again.

Yes, its easier said than done. And that sucks.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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I understand what you are saying, but that is what I would do if she did it. I couldn't live with her after a physical affair. I know it's not easy.
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Oh NO way, not if it had gone PA. He'd be out on his ass. What we have gone thru has been agonizing. If it had one more element I think we likely would have gone our separate ways. He gave away nearly everything that was mine. If he'd given that too, there'd have been NO hope.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does this explain the "Fog"?

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I understand what you are saying, but that is what I would do if she did it. I couldn't live with her after a physical affair. I know it's not easy.
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I don't think anybody imagines they could live with their partner after a physical affair BEFORE it happens. But when it does happen it's not always as simple as it sounds. Sometimes the hardest advice to follow is what you tell others. I'm a great example - often advising that people should move on, when I haven't fully moved on myself. I always try to qualify my remarks by mentioning this - but believe me... it is not easy.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:54 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I know for damned sure we did! I told him DURING his A this. When I started to feel that "something was off" I told him if he was unhappy to say so, if he wanted someone else to say so.....He was way too fogged up by then to get any straight answers from him. I have told him since that it would have been easier on me for him to just leave me than to cheat. I still hold to that statement. It would have shown more respect IMO. But it is what it is and he has paid dearly for his 'fun'. No one has given more or lost more than he has. Myself included. I can still look in the mirror and know who I am. He struggles everyday with that. I believe that if he could go back in time and undo this he would. It hasnt been worth the price he's paid. the lost trust and respect. He is working his ass off, as he should, just to get some kind of normalcy again.

Yes, its easier said than done. And that sucks.
Did you take him back?
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