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Old 01-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Originally Posted by Cedarman View Post
In an EA, the WS can see nothing wrong with the AP and everything wrong with the BS. That is how the "fog" works.

In my case, the POSOM was married with a 1 year old and a 3 year old when the EA started. He also had a girlfriend. He left his wife and kids, divorced asap, THEN he had a PA with my wife while still maintaining his girlfriend. THEN, he met another woman, became engaged (while continuing the PA) - eventually marrying this woman.

My wife is very attractive, extremely successful, and intelligent. Yet, she thought this guy was everything she was missing in her marriage. They NEVER argued. They didn't have any stress about kids. They could complain to each other about their marriages and find a sympathetic ear. All they did was have fun!!! The fact that he was a sleaze ball, screwing around and cheating on everybody did not seem to matter.

THAT is the power and the danger of the "fog". OP: It sounds like you're still a little bit in the fog - but starting to come out. Once you're out - you have to make some clearheaded decisions. No matter what you choose, you need to be 100% honest with all players involved. That is for their sake - but more importantly it is for YOUR sake.

You don't want to go through life as a lying cheat. Find your character.

Yea . Personally I've never thought intelligence has much to do with passion or love especially in early fog days . You like who you like , it just happens.

And yea again. See this is why l'm here today and we "are" working this stuff out finally . I don't mind the kicks , l need to get clear on it all once and for all after today and the last 4 mths and you guys are doing it.
l just don't know how to thank you after the hell we've been through.

And again , you mention fog , l'd never heard of it before coming here and then to me it was quite obvious that my wife was the one in fog.
But now l see , l was in the fog long long before her , with K.
The chemical wacko syndrome , the lot
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:42 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Can an emotional affair be so serious that it justifies separation or the right for them to start seeing someone else ? The right for them to cut off and appear to be feeling no guilt about seeing someone else ?
Is it justifiably that bad ?
People divorce everyday due EAs. But yours was very cruel, flaunting OW that way is not only a complete dealbreaker for many but the therapy, her depression, the isolation, the need to scape and the complete detachment is totally granted. You were emotionaly and mentally abusive to your wife.
Of course you lost her before but as OM entered the chances to go back decreases exponentially.

Try wear the other shoe. Re write your posts just change the characters. If you are honest enough with yourself you will see the cruelty and the reasonable outcome. What the hell did you expect? Can you imagine having the need to go to therapy?
You broke your wife and destroyed your marriage. She's now trying to become another man's GF. All happened right under your nose as you were to busy with OW. Four month after the sepatarion you realizes it and now it's too late. Why? Only becasue another man is in the picture.
Why are you so angry? You are still showing no humility, imagining conditions to recover the marriage. You are in complete denial, friend. Change the attitude.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

So, WH, what you want from your thread is some clarity?

You are certain that your M is over and you want to be clear on why and how and who has what responsibility?

Someone asked if your W talked to you about your 'friend', whether your W expressed concern, during this year. Did she? If she did, did you deny or minimize or gaslight?

And what happened to K? Why was this woman OK with partying with another woman's H all this time, knowing the W was in her bedroom? This is not a nice person in this respect.

If you want clarity, it seems to me that your W and you had very typical marital problems until you started having an affair right in front of her. She was depressed and finally found the strength to tell you where to get off. From what you've written, it seems that simple to me.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Did your wife talk to you during this time and tell you to stop hanging out with K? And did either one of you talk about the unhappiness in your marriage until it was apparently over?

I agree with MattMatt...you both have rights and responsibilities - and you did while you were married.
She tried in her own proud way . Which means she blew up at me about it one night . She also accused me of stealing her undies , in front of her. l didn't have them they found them later.

Yea we use to talk triple most couples but that had slipped badly for sure.
But I was still often talking to her and checking with her at night , asking stuff and swopping our days you know. Usually in bed when kids were out of the way.

But 99% of the time she always said things were cool and we were both too stress to give a damn right now anyway.

She admitted she also felt very responsible for us because l did often ask her or come in to talk but she wasn't honest with me. But then she was too hurt and depressed to go there to, l'm too close .
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:47 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Thanks for the honesty and making it through my post and yep , it seems l have been that dumb , with some selfishness and blind eye thrown in if l'm being really honest
If you had not been spending so much time being entertained by K and partying with friends you might have noticed that your wife was depressed and having problems.

How is it that K, whom your wife did not even like that much, came to stay at your house for that long a time?

Where is K now? Why did she eventually move out of your house?

Rule of thumb, never allow anyone who is within the age span your spouse or you would be interested in to move into your house when you are married. This often leads to problems in the marriage. Having long term house guests or roommates often leads to affairs.

You wife apparently tired to tell you that she was bothered by your EA with K but you blew her off. So it sounds like she just cried when by herself and did not tell you what was going on with her.

When your wife is so tired that sheís going to bed at 7/8 pm, itís a signal that you, her husband, needed to spend some extra time taking care of her and helping her get back on her feet. Iím not saying this to make you feel bad. Itís just the truth that so many people ignore.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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She said she just can't there was too much hurt and she was done.
Look at how you feel about your wife and her current affair. This pain that you feel, that is the same level of pain that your wife felt for that year that you put you spent mostly with K. And you carried out your EA right in front of your wife. Can you imagine how your would feel if your wife was still living in your house and the OM was a guest in your house... and all the while you were aware of their affair?

Imagine that. That's how your wife felt for that year.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Apparently it was getting pretty hot in my sleep too but l thought but hey we could dream anything we can't be responsible for that surely.
The first time you had a dream like that about K was the time to ask K to leave your house. Actually you should have asked her to leave before that. But once the dreams started it was definitely time.

You are not responsible for the dream. You are responsible for putting yourself in a position where you felt so strongly about another woman that those thoughts permeated your dreams.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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So, WH, what you want from your thread is some clarity?

You are certain that your M is over and you want to be clear on why and how and who has what responsibility?

Someone asked if your W talked to you about your 'friend', whether your W expressed concern, during this year. Did she? If she did, did you deny or minimize or gaslight?

And what happened to K? Why was this woman OK with partying with another woman's H all this time, knowing the W was in her bedroom? This is not a nice person in this respect.

If you want clarity, it seems to me that your W and you had very typical marital problems until you started having an affair right in front of her. She was depressed and finally found the strength to tell you where to get off. From what you've written, it seems that simple to me.

Yea , it's sure looking that way Dame, ya pretty well summed it up.
K is still around , comes over now and then for a few days but with everything that's happened not too often and nothings gone any further.
As far as the person , hmm. l just don't know l mean things get away from you.

Look at her new guy , his suppose to be all gentle and fkg caring , but his just helped break up a family and messed with my wifes head even further.
lf he wasn't on the scene for her to fall back to there's not a doubt , we could have worked this out and made it back.

So , l just don't know. In lots of ways K saw me needing and neglected
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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So , l just don't know. In lots of ways K saw me needing and neglected
K might have seen you "needing and neglected". But if she was a fair minded person she would have seen that your wife was also "needing and neglected". You and your wife share the responsibility for the way your marriage was. It takes two.

K knew exactly what she was doing. She was going after the husband of the woman whose house she lived in.

If you and your wife ever start to get back together K will have to be completely out of your life. She is not a friend of your marriage.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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So , l just don't know. In lots of ways K saw me needing and neglected
This is a terrible, sad, sad excuse.

People are complicated and it's rarely right to say a person is all good or all bad, but we can certainly judge people's actions. This OW did a very, very, very bad thing. And you did, too. You really haven't a leg to stand on in this.

You may have been 'neglected,' but that was between you and your W. Marriage is supposed to be the safe place that you commit your heart to. You took all that safety away. It's bad enough that affairs happen and cause such horrible heartbreak and break up families, but to have it happen in real time right in front of you is truly awful and cruel.

At some point, you have to start acknowledging that there is no point to finding equivalency in her actions.

And even if your M is done for, you should have the moral courage to cut off your relationship with K completely.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:18 PM   #41 (permalink)
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The first time you had a dream like that about K was the time to ask K to leave your house. Actually you should have asked her to leave before that. But once the dreams started it was definitely time.

You are not responsible for the dream. You are responsible for putting yourself in a position where you felt so strongly about another woman that those thoughts permeated your dreams.

Yea , now finally out of my own fog which l didn;t even realize l was in until an education round here , yep l should have.
To be honest though at the time , l'd had girls be like this with other guys round me as l was saying and all l ever got was basically don't be so ridiculous.
l even got it of my wife once while we were away. we were partying and she spent the whole night talking with these two guys and - they'd arranged to go up into the mountains on a day trip , just the 3 of them , next day.
Oh we're just friends ra ra - what's wrong with that. She didn't even know them , they were all drunk !
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:26 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

Please, can you clarify the timeline?
When K entered in the picture? When your wife started getting therapy? When did she asked for the separation? When did she move out? When OM entered in the picture?
About your children... what is the actual arrangement? How often dod you have them since the separation? Anyone filing for D?
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:26 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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This is a terrible, sad, sad excuse.

People are complicated and it's rarely right to say a person is all good or all bad, but we can certainly judge people's actions. This OW did a very, very, very bad thing. And you did, too. You really haven't a leg to stand on in this.

You may have been 'neglected,' but that was between you and your W. Marriage is supposed to be the safe place that you commit your heart to. You took all that safety away. It's bad enough that affairs happen and cause such horrible heartbreak and break up families, but to have it happen in real time right in front of you is truly awful and cruel.

At some point, you have to start acknowledging that there is no point to finding equivalency in her actions.

And even if your M is done for, you should have the moral courage to cut off your relationship with K completely.

Ahh dunno bout that one Dame . You haven't mentioned him and what his effected.
And K well , l can't see what difference it'd make now. l offered to never see her again right then and there but she took off with someone else anyway so you know.

but the rest is just about my anger Dame . if there is one then maybe l can lose that anger , find some new peace and move on !
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Yea , now finally out of my own fog which l didn;t even realize l was in until an education round here , yep l should have.

To be honest though at the time , l'd had girls be like this with other guys round me as l was saying and all l ever got was basically don't be so ridiculous.

l even got it of my wife once while we were away. we were partying and she spent the whole night talking with these two guys and - they'd arranged to go up into the mountains on a day trip , just the 3 of them , next day.

Oh we're just friends ra ra - what's wrong with that. She didn't even know them , they were all drunk !
Many people think that as long as sex does not happen it's ok. They feel this way until their spouse has an EA. Then they start to realize the importance of the emotional connection between spouses and how it can be distoryed by an EA. The EA distroys that connection because the WS is now emotionally connected to anohter person and their energy is no longer focused on the marital relationship.

It's a learning process for many.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:41 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is a full on emotional affair a real affair ? Thoughts needed

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Please, can you clarify the timeline?
When K entered in the picture? When your wife started getting therapy? When did she asked for the separation? When did she move out? When OM entered in the picture?
About your children... what is the actual arrangement? How often dod you have them since the separation? Anyone filing for D?
Hi Aca.
K about 15mths , We started to get along about 3 mths later. 12 mths after that my marriage separated.
I find out finally , my wife had been getting therapy about 6mths before we split .
She asked to separate about 51/2 mths ago and she moved out 4mths ago now. We had to live together till we had the money plus giving my daughter time.

No no divorce stuff at all yet. l have my daughter pretty well anytime she's up to another house hop but usually week ends so far. l also drop in to see her whenever l can .

The OM she'd met 3-4 wks before she asked to separate but she'd decided and wrote the letter to me , just hadn't given it to me as yet , 6wks before. There were dates on things l found and it all matched in to what she'd said.
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