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When you find out the 'details' of the PA....

96K views 265 replies 76 participants last post by  nuclearnightmare 
#1 ·
....does it ever make sense, or serve a purpose, to never want to replicate, duplicate, perform, act out ...etc ...in any manner, way, form that to other POS did with your wife, partner, etc?

...after 17 years, the anger about my wife's (supposed) one nighter with someone else finally boiled over. Before you look twice...yes, I said 17 years. We have been together ever since that "indiscretion" ...and I took a path to reconciliation. But, she never was 'made' to disclose details about what led her to sleep with someone else, or the 'dirty deed" itself. She, to this day, claims that she'd have a hard time telling me his name ...although I am sure that she withheld this info for fear that I'd hunt him down and kill him....or something really painful.

...this all has been brought to the front burner by:

1: My lack of trust in her (she played the trust card in our marriage ...and it's been in the discard pile ever since.)

2: She's planned a 5 night getaway in Fla with 5 of her HS girlfriends ...which ...brings to a boil issue #1.

My anger lately has been so off the charts that it's prompted her to give me an ultimatum regarding ...getting some professional help ...and, getting on some form of medication(s) to help me deal with the anger that's been festering for so long. The ultimatum was basically, get help ...stop ...fix this ...or I'm leaving to get an apartment ...taking daughter(s) .[one is 17, the other 23].

....let's start with this ...I want to be head over heals in love with her. It physically hurts to deal with the emotion associated with the thought of another guy touching her. I'm probably shortening my lifespan for enduring this level of hurt and the affiliated hostility. It's probably not a good thing either that in lieu of having "real meds" ...I prefer to have a few shots of bourbon every so often to numb the pain.

...we had a LONG talk about this today ...because she wouldn't get out of my face until we did. And as such, I got more and more angry with her that ...for lack of a better way of saying it ....she just wouldn't let me be angry because if was affecting her.

....I spilled my guts again ...and I demanded answers. I wanted to know what this other guys name was, where he lived, etc. Her answer, "does it really matter 17 years later"? I did the whole explanation to her about what SHOULD have happened back then on D-Day ...including disclosure, details, names, addresses, phone numbers, no contact statements...etc. (too bad TAM didn't exist then). She remained clueless ...thinking ."it's over...let's move on".

...I told her ..."you and I were the only people that each of us had ever slept with ...and you told me that you you had to love someone in order to sleep with them"...." what could someone possibly say to you to make you sleep with them after just meeting them"? She told me that he said, "I want you". That's it....3 simple words. 3 words that if I ever had the inclination to WANT to say to my wife at an opportune moment ...will NEVER EVER say to her.

....so the question I have for those that have stayed with a wayward spouse, "are you afraid to say or do anything that will remind you partner of the other man/woman".

...I was told by my wife today ...that because I wanted the 'details"...that "you are sick and need serious help". Well ...from what I've read regarding the topic ...I guess I'm not alone in my state of sickness.
 
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#2 ·
No. Never be afraid to say anything that will remind your wife of the xOM. No matter how long ago it was. A remorseful spouse understands the full extent and pain that they caused the betrayed.

I was a details guy. I needed them to stop the horrible mind movies I had cuz I have an active imagination. It's kind of odd sounding, but that's just how I dealt with sh-t. It was much better knowing what happened then wondering what happened.

You are not sick, she is simply scared to tell you. She's scared to tell you because she knows you will be angry and rightly so.

"I want you". F*ck, man...that hits so close to home with my own wife's commentary regarding her xOM.
 
#3 ·
Of course you're not sick. It is your marriage and your wife, of course you are going to want the details. What does your wife base her statements on? Has she consulted any books about infidelity and typical behaviors and needs of betrayed spouses? Or that's just her opinion, stated authoritatively by her, to get you to shut up?

I'm sorry for the pain you endured all these years wondering.

There is another thread here now from a wife whose husband cheated on her a year and a half ago and still won't give her the details.

I'm guessing that no one ever knew she cheated on you. She sounds like she lords it over you - she sounds like she knows you will not divorce her no matter what. As a matter of fact, she is using the tactic that she WILL threaten divorce to get you into line and stop asking questions. "I cheated, you're just lucky I stopped, now be happy with what I told you or I will divorce you, and we both know that YOU don't want that!"

So, what would happen if you threatened divorce unless she came clean with the details? Would she live without you rather than give you the details? After all, all you are asking for is the truth.

Change this around to suit your situation and give it to your wife.

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.​
 
#5 ·
...saw the thread where you posted the above. It's WONDERFUL ...and I will be using 99% of it in one manner or another to get some answers from her. I cannot ....do not deserve to ..live in the grip of unknowing pain that I have endured for 17 years. I'm 52 years old ...I want to know what happened ...if it hurts so be it ...but my vivid imagination needs to be put to rest.
 
#4 ·
...I was told by my wife today ...that because I wanted the 'details"...that "you are sick and need serious help". Well ...from what I've read regarding the topic ...I guess I'm not alone in my state of sickness.
Print this off and leave it for her to find. Maybe this will help her understand why you can't move forward and simply forgive and forget. You could modify it to meet your needs now as it has been 17 years since this happened.

I haven't found anyone that knows the letter's true origin, but that doesn't really matter at this point. Your goal is to make her understand why you need the "pieces of the puzzle".

You'll understand why I put that one phrase in quotations in a minute.

Joseph's Letter

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)
 
#19 ·
Hurtin still,

Definitely give her "Joseph's Letter". I gave it to my CH, he read it, but I still get nothing but, I can't remember. That's why I stress to anyone going through an affair to get all the information you can while it's fresh in their minds, not that they are going to give it to you, mind sure didn't and he didn't show much remorse either.

You do have a right to demand answer's to your questions, no matter how long ago it's been. I have so many unanswered, so the puzzle is still so blank.

Granny7
 
#8 · (Edited)
Dear Hurtin_Still,

I read your other threads and, sadly, I conclude that your situation is hopeless. Not because of your WW, as bad as she is, but because of you.

You are a classic example of a passive-aggressiveness person. For 17 years, you have been unable to confront your WW, demand that she meet your needs and leave her if she doesn't. Now it all boils over but why should she respond any differently? You've been here before and always backed down. She expects you to again (as do I).

If you really want to make some progress and finally have some peace, do it differently this time. Go to counseling, get your anger under control and then sit her down some night and calmly say to her, "Dear, thank you for insisting that I get counseling. It's done me a world of good. For one thing, I realize now that I have wasted 30 years of my life with you. So I've decided to leave you." Then actually leave her, get a divorce and start enjoying life again.

Nothing short of this will solve your problem. As long as you live with your WW, you will be miserable. She's a witch.

Do you want to be miserable for the rest of your life or don't you and, if you don't, do you have the courage to do something about it?

I'm betting you don't but I'm hoping you do.
 
#10 ·
Personally I would never be able to attempt to reconcile unless I knew who the other man was. Her not telling you is saying " F$%k how you feel, just deal with it". So NO, you are not crazy for wanting to know. You don't know if its a relative, a friend or a neighbor. How does she expect you to have closure? She doesn't care, she just wants to rugsweep.

You damn sure know that if the roles where reversed she would want to know.
 
#12 ·
. what could someone possibly say to you to make you sleep with them after just meeting them"? She told me that he said, "I want you". That's it....3 simple words. 3 words that if I ever had the inclination to WANT to say to my wife at an opportune moment ...will NEVER EVER say to her.
This just came out in today's conversation?

"I want you". F*ck, man...that hits so close to home with my own wife's commentary regarding her xOM.
It's the access code man. Just punch in the number in the right sequence and her "gait" (sic) swings open.
 
#13 ·
It's the access code man. Just punch in the number in the right sequence and her "gait" (sic) swings open.
LMAO...you have a great way with words, Mach. That's what I really like when I read you!

You're absolutely correct. When the WS is primed to accept those kinds of compliments, there is nothing more powerful than a few choice words.
 
#15 ·
Why should she tell you anything since clearly there was absolutely no consequences to her actions. If the roles were reversed do you think she would have been so forgiving and accepting as you have been?

Now she is making fun of you for asking questions you had a right to know. She does not take this seriously because she knew she could get away with it and you would still be with her. I suggest that you contact an attorney to understand your options. When you inform your wife that this is deal breaker she will talk plenty.
Unless there are consequences to her refusing to be truthful to you then you are wasting your time asking her.
 
#27 ·
...I agree ...she, in particular, would not be forgiving. She's a person with very low self-esteem (...and that all played into her 'one-nighter' ...because it seems that all she was seeking was validation of her worth, attractiveness, etc because she wasn't getting it from me due to the constant bickering that was going on back then).

....had I been the one to cheat on her ...I think we'd not be currently married. She's a person that is irked by the fact that I occasionally communicate with a high-school girlfriend (first real romance when I was 16 ...but a real close friend before any dating occurred). I know that it bothers her, but it's all very innocent ...and I've even visited her when I was on business in her neck of the woods, had dinner at her house (she's married and I was invited by her husband).

.....I've learned a lot here ...I've learned that marital problems exist ...and that both parties are likely at fault and need to own some blame. But I also learned that her cheating ...her actions ...are not / were not ...my fault. And I'm slowly feeling better about ME with regards to that. And I think that she finally had a light-bulb go off yesterday and realize that too and may be willing to talk more because she sees that I am not willing to suffer needlessly in a vacuum of my own imagination.
 
#16 ·
17 years later and IMO, I believe you are still haunted by your wides betrayal because you never got closure from the events. Your mind must have been imagining maybe the worse when really all you really needed to hear is the truth to set your mind free?
Could you sit down with your wife and explain why after all these years that you just need to know in order to get closer to closure? Reasure her that you love her and still want to be with her and help her understand when you sweep things/emotions under the rug that they are sure to surface regardless of how long it has been.

Sounds like you definitely need to hear what happened to heal and move forward. My MC suggested to me to write down everything I thought I needed from my H so I could heal, this helped but I found that my needs changed over time too and I and my MC had to explain that to my H as well.

You of all people should know that R is hard, you have put in so much hard work since Dday (I'm assuming so cause you have still been together for 17 years) she must have a lot of love for you too or she just wouldn't be there...

To me it sounds like she is scared to talk or be reminded about the ugly past, she might believe she is a completely different person to what she was back then and hopefully thinking that your relationship is completely different now (better) to what it was then too, SO, I would have the talk of how important it is for you to know certain things so you can heal...

Good luck to you, I hope you handle hearing what she has to tell you well, if she tells you?
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#28 ·
17 years later and IMO, I believe you are still haunted by your wifes betrayal because you never got closure from the events. Your mind must have been imagining maybe the worse when really all you really needed to hear is the truth to set your mind free?
Could you sit down with your wife and explain why after all these years that you just need to know in order to get closer to closure? Reassure her that you love her and still want to be with her and help her understand when you sweep things/emotions under the rug that they are sure to surface regardless of how long it has been.

Sounds like you definitely need to hear what happened to heal and move forward. My MC suggested to me to write down everything I thought I needed from my H so I could heal, this helped but I found that my needs changed over time too and I and my MC had to explain that to my H as well.

You of all people should know that R is hard, you have put in so much hard work since Dday (I'm assuming so cause you have still been together for 17 years) she must have a lot of love for you too or she just wouldn't be there...

To me it sounds like she is scared to talk or be reminded about the ugly past, she might believe she is a completely different person to what she was back then and hopefully thinking that your relationship is completely different now (better) to what it was then too, SO, I would have the talk of how important it is for you to know certain things so you can heal...

Good luck to you, I hope you handle hearing what she has to tell you well, if she tells you?
Posted via Mobile Device

.....I agree with your take on this, in particular the section (above) that I highlighted in BOLD. It's been mentioned here that she's never been made to deal with consequences of her actions. And, that is largely true ...and in my opinion, she's never been made to "suffer" for lack of a better word. Maybe I'm wrong (tell me if I am ...it's okay) ...but I somehow need(ed) to have her hurt as bad as I do. It sounds cruel ...and my wife will say that if that's the way I feel about her ...then I don't really love her and we have no place being together.

As you mentioned, she may be scared to really confront her action ...and as 'meaningless" as she thinks it is in the grand scheme of life ...she may actually see how devastating it truly was / is to me.
 
#17 ·
Ultimatum should go the other way with you telling her that she has to tell you whatever you want or you will divorce her instead of her divorcing you if you don't get over it.

You won't get any details unless you are prepared to divorce her over it.If you accept her not giving you any details again,you will continue to be angry and in the end she will divorce you so the end result is same.
 
#18 ·
Hurtin still,

I'm so sorry to hear about your awful situation, as I'm in the same kind also. I got up from bed at 3:30 as I was laying in my own bed, as I moved out of our room a couple months ago as I just didn't want to sleep with him anymore. He wasn't helping me to find answer's that he never gave to me over 25 yrs. ago. I was laying there, couldn't sleep and crying and thinking to myself, "Life shouldn't be this way." It seems like I'm doing all the suffering and I was the almost perfect wife. I didn't get them back then, decided to move on after 5 yrs. of therapy and now it's all back again to haunt me. Here is my original post below that I moved to another section, but I can't remember the name right now. I also have another thread going, titled, "Help, I just don't know if I can deal with this anymore!" or something close to that.

Your message was sent to me to read, as this person couldn't believe how our stories were so alike. I hope that we can help each other. I'm at the end of my rope, very depressed and finally started on a anti-depressant 5 days ago, that's how bad it got. I can't sleep, get out of the house, am loosing half my hair and rubbing the rest of it out. I'm looking for a new psychologist now as my CS has finally decided to work on the marriage this past yr. but now I don't know if it's to late as I feel nothing anymore. It's just hard to give up 51 yrs. of marriage at 69 yrs. of ago.

Anyway, I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this. Please feel free to PM me if you like and go and read my thread's also, maybe it will help. I will respond more to your's, hopefully later today as I'm pretty upset right now and need to rest to shut down.

Blessings to you and my original story is posted here:


Affair Coming Back To Haunt Me 25 Years Later?
My D-day was 11/6/87, when I received a letter from the OWH, who also sent 4 love letters my CH had sent to the OW on her birthday for the 3 yr. affair. Shock doesn't even describe how I felt, when I thought we had a wonderful 25 yr. marriage, were high school sweethearts, got married at 18 and worked our way up the corporate ladder, after starting our marriage with $90.

We or I should say "I" went to 5 yrs. of counseling, Retro weekends, etc., but he didn't really participate with me. We had 3 children at home, I was 40 yrs. old, no college experience and if I had left, it would have been a hardship for me and the children and I was trying to make it work. I based my staying on the knowledge that it was an emotional affair that just included lunch's for a year. I was so glad (even though he betrayed me, I felt I could get though that) as long as their was no sex and it hadn't lasted any longer and he didn't love her.

If I had know the whole truth at the very beginning, he would have been out the door, as he knew my feelings about affairs, but it took me searching through receipts, etc. to find out the truth. I had 5 D-days during this process, so I was more crushed each time.
I also had a stage 3 Melanoma, very extensive surgery 6 weeks after I found out about the affair, which that set me back 3 months. That's when I started doing some research. He would still lie when confronted, even to our priest, our children and they were adults. I had to even see the OW to verify things he would tell me that didn't add up and that was degrading sitting in my car with her. Then who's to say that she wasn't lying also.

I started IC before I knew about all the lies to try and save the marriage, which is what he should have been doing. I think our marriage wouldn't be in the place it's in now if he had went. I still loved him and tried to work it out, much more than he did. He continued drinking to much at social functions, ignoring me and never acted remorseful. We got through the next 20 yrs. of marriage, the first 5 being the worse, without killing each other and I think it had to do with our grandchildren being born 6 months after the Affair. He still continued to feel that he had to dance with the ladies at conventions, drink to much socially no matter what I would say. I left him twice during those 25 yrs. due to his drinking and behavior also.

He finally quit drinking, after 35 yrs. this past Christmas a year ago, is less controlling, trying to make the marriage work finally. All the things he should have done 25 yrs. ago. I am angry, hurt, depressed, sad and don't know what to do. I am looking for the 5th. marriage counselor, for myself and us, which he has agreed to go to this time and work with them. I just can't seem to find any feelings for him anymore. I don't even like looking at him, nor want him to touch me, which is sad as I couldn't have loved or been more proud of him before the A. He had my full support, affection, love, help, sex, you name it and I gave it to him. But he did all the taking and me the giving, now that I look back on it. When I think to even before the A, he did the same thing, even with our children.

I look at myself now at 69, still look pretty good, but have lost a lot of my hair, probably due to stress, hormones and thyroid, so I sure don't feel like I look pretty anymore. I don't care if I do for him or not, he sure didn't notice how good I looked when I was 40, ignored me, focused on his affair partner, even lost 15 lbs. for her. Those good years aren't here anymore. Now I have to wear a wig to even look pretty and I feel a lot of my hair loss is due to stress. Where was he when I did look good, the compliments, me in the prime of my life and I loved him so much and was so happy, except when he would drink and try and control me.

That sure isn't happening anymore. During the past 4 yrs., with the last one being the worse, I have reevaluated my life and really see what kind of person he truly is, not the man that I thought I married that would cherish me, like I did him. I put up with so much all those years, not being a good Father, the drinking, controlling everything, not attentive enough to end up at 69 not sure if I love him or not and I don't know what to do.

This past year has me asking him questions about the affair that he never answered before, I had to get some of the answers from the OW, as all he did was lie or say nothing or get very angry. He says that he has put it out of his mind, he doesn't remember much of what really happened, why he did what he did and now he regrets it, he's changed! So why can't I just move on, enjoy him as this new person, enjoy our life and stop living in the past that can't be changed?

I told him that until I know for sure that he didn't truly have sex with her, maybe because he was unable to? But did he try and did he want to and what else did they do in that bed or hotel rooms during those 3 weekends? I need the answers to these questions before I can make any decision to move on with this marriage.

Now he is showing regret and remorse, but where was it 25 yrs. ago if he truly loved me? I don't even know if he knows what that word means? He has a Narcisstic personality and is very selfish. I just don't know what to do, I found some of the love for 20 yrs. after the affair and don't know what caused it to leave me again? I don't want to connect with him, don't want him to see me undressed, etc., just like I felt after discovering the A.

I feel that he is still lying about things and he doesn't want to discuss it anymore. Even when we have, it's like pulling teeth to get answers and so many don't make sense. I have a feeling that even with all the therapy years ago, my mind couldn't handle what he did and I suppressed it and now it's all come back worse than before. The panic attacks are back, along with the depression and they are worse just like they were after discovering the A. I am still looking for that counselor that can help us make it, if that's possible. Any suggestions are surely welcome, as we are both miserable.

Granny7
 
#20 ·
Buddy,

I know what you exactly feel. I went through this. Almost 90%.

When did you come to know of her A? Was it voluntarily revealed?

First and foremost enemy in my case was: Anger.

I could have got the info had it not been for anger. It spoiled her willingness. I read that you also have the same situation. She wants you to move on. She says she does not want to see you hurt!

Wait. Without full details, how can you move on? It hurts as if the A happened now.

You have love for her and she counts the mealticket and the security of remaining married with you.

You should grow stronger and stronger and in that growing she will start revealing full truth and by part by part. You need patience.

Patience is hard to come.

As you hear the truth, it will hurt......

I know.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Hurtin still,
First of all, I think some of the comments made on here, knocking you down have been cruel. You came here for support, not for someone to imply that you didn't have any b++ls and that's not something I ever say.

It looks like you stayed in the marriage for the same reason I did, you still loved her and you wanted to make the marriage work. Neither of our spouse's cooperated, you had children to consider and so did I, plus an investment of 25 yrs. It's not always as easy as it sounds at the time, shock, hurt, anger all enter's into your thinking and like you I decided to "forgive." I did it without knowing the truth and now it's all come back to haunt me. That is not unusual by the way. It's called PTSD!

In regards to your wife and your question's. No, I'm not afraid to say or ask anything in regards to the OW. That's my right and your's also. My H is ready now to go to counseling, he went before but in body only, so he's working on keeping us together. But the one thing he isn't giving me is the answer's to so many of my questions. Your wife shouldn't have that problem, if it was a one night stand, at least that is what I got from it. It should take nothing for her to tell you and if she loved you enough she would see you suffering and care enough. My H has changed a lot this past 6 months, less controlling, stopped drinking 18 months ago, after 35 yrs. of it, helpful. But he hasn't given me the thing I want the most, the details, time line, why if he loved me? It's killing me inside, my 3 oldest children know about the affair and my 2 daughter's are accusing me of breaking up the family by bringing up something that happened almost 30 yrs. ago. If I forgave him then, why am I bringing it up now? Because he hasn't treated me the best in these past 25 yrs. and the past 4 yrs. have been the worse due to different reasons that you will see by reading my first post or some of the other's. But even with those, their is no excuse if you really love someone and it sounds like your wife loves herself more. Thats why it all came back in full force, why did I stay, I should have divorced him 30 yrs. ago at 40 yrs. You are still younger than me and will probably not having any trouble, when you get ready, to marry again. I'm 69, not sure if I would ever get married again?

I agree with some of the things that have been suggested on here. If it was me, she wouldn't give me an ultimatum. Tell her to take the girls and leave, she might start to open her mouth. Give that some thought, however, as that's a big decision. After reading some of the letter's that was suggested that you give her to read (hopefully she will) then see if she will talk. If not, their has to be an ultimatum given by you if you want the answers. It's now or never or else you will never have any peace within yourself. For her to not even tell you the name of the man, which you should have insisted upon at the beginning, is unreal. She should do it now, along with the details if that is what you are asking for. Like some mentioned, their has to be consequences or she will continue to dominate and walk all over you and that gives her the power and that's not acceptable. Draw that line in the sand, tell her exactly what you need, let her know what you will do if she doesn't do it and stick to it. Write down on a piece of paper all your questions and give her a time limit to answer your questions, then be prepared to follow through.

Good luck, Granny7
 
#22 ·
Well S.H
Many people do not realise that the issues involved in a wayward partners activities whether its a one off or months of is in effect a trauma. Its the effct of shock on the system. People who suffer trauma in other of lifes avenues have to obtain some kind of councilling. Those that suffer it in a marridge are not routineky seen as sufferers, unlike car accident victims etc.
The fact that you have been told of something by your W that has crushed you, has come left of filed and caught you unaware and unprepared needs to have the cause confronted. In the past 17 years I suspect that you have run and re-run the situation in your head, pulling together assumptions of who the guy was, do you know him , is he married, how did they get to the point of bedroom fun, where was this, did she enjoy it more than you, do the same things etc. These "picutres" will re-run for ever and a day until something/one helps you break the cycle. The letter posted is a great idea. You need to get the message over that, yes W you can move on because you know whats happened, I cannot because your still concealing it after all this time and you W would rather hide things than admit these. Until she talsk and replies as often as you need to clear the pictures in your head then it isnt going to go away. YOU ARE NOT SICK. This is very much a natural reaction to something traumatic which has deeply effected you
 
#23 ·
17 years...

and she is still doing the "turn-around"... "You are sick, its been 17 years, you need to see a doctor, let it go, move on, does it really matter now, I said I'm sorry... what more can I do now, what good will it serve now."

Sound familiar? The reality is there was always much more than a ONS. The lies are always deeper. She has buried it and obliviously can live without conscience or consequences.
 
#26 ·
:iagree:

There's more to it because she refuses to give the man's name after an ONS. After all, what could it hurt now 17 years later? My theory is that the reason she refuses to give up the name is because it more than a ONS.

Trickle Truth, that's my feeling on this. And she's giving him the ultimatum? The whole "Get Over It Already", routine and wants him to sweep it under the rug.

We see what sweeping it under the rug gets you: Resentment festers and builds until it consumes you. That's why you end up tripping over that lump in the rug when you sweep things under it.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtin_Still View Post
. what could someone possibly say to you to make you sleep with them after just meeting them"? She told me that he said, "I want you". That's it....3 simple words. 3 words that if I ever had the inclination to WANT to say to my wife at an opportune moment ...will NEVER EVER say to her.

This just came out in today's conversation?
....yes ...it took +17 years to hear that. I think that a lot more information will be forthcoming. The "talk" we had was a bit more forceful on my end than usual (not violent..just persistent). I wasn't taking no for an answer. I figured that ...I've been living in a world of pain for +17 years ...based on what I don't know. If I'm going to hurt ...which I'm sure I will ...it's better that it's due to real information.
 
#32 ·
...the Exxon Valdez of fuel is on that fire and currently burning.

....you are correct to assume what you did ...as do I. The A supposedly occurred during a week when (at a MC suggestion) ....we have a 'trial separation" just to let stuff cool off. At that session when it was suggested, and I agreed to it, I made it known that this was to be a "trial" ...nothing legal , we're still married ...and that there will be no seeing other persons. My wife said she wasn't agreeing to anything like that.

...during the "separation" (1 week long was all it was) I was picking up some stuff, clothes, from our house (I was staying at my parents) ...and my wife and I were talking and it was revealed to me that she slept with someone else (my wife had been drinking, got emotional, and that's probably the only reason it was revealed to me). I truly believe that she slept with this person at least 2 weeks before the separation ...because I believe that she not agree to my conditions because she had already broken them.

....skip ahead ...I'm back in the house at my wife's request. We go into the "honeymoon phase" ...and shortly thereafter find that she's pregnant. Mind you, it was unprotected sex on our part. But, I, of course assumed the worst ...and when I really look at the "calendar" ...9 months would have been almost exactly to the span from where my daughter was born and my wife slept with this other POS. My wife, to this day cannot tell me if the other guy had a condom on.

...my daughter does not resemble me in the slightest ...is blonde (as was the other guy ...that's all the info I ever got from her about him)...and although there are some blondes in my family ....I'm not one of them ...there are none in my wife's family.

......is there a possibility that our daughter is "mine" ....yes. Is there a possibility that she's not ....yes. Does it kill my heart to think about it ...yes. For many reasons .....but, I will look anyone in the face and tell them that I have not loved my daughter any less than any of my other kids. In fact I can honestly say that I've been there for her more than I was with the first two ...I've tried so much harder ...as if to never let on that anything was 'different' about her. She a magnificent kid ....extremely talented, smart, beautiful. And I will never destroy that with any of my inner fears or anger. As a father ...you want to feel that if you have a gifted child ...that you somehow, through genetics ...may have had something to do with it. I don't have that ...but I will never let on to her about what might or might not be.
 
#40 ·
Hurtin you are a good man for loving your daughter. Determining paternity for you does not seem to be a priority. Protecting her is noble and good.

Food for thought... At 43 years old my SIL was diagnosed with breast cancer and carried the gene BRCA. Normally this would trigger testing for all female siblings and mom. When my wife was told not to worry about it the whole truth came crashing down. SIL was was not conceived by daddy. This was a tough truth to deal with while fighting breast cancer as well.
 
#41 ·
...please don't think that this (medical reasons, emergency, blood / tissue-organ donation, etc.) hasn't gone thru my mind. I have brought this up to my wife, and she looks at me like I'm out of my mind. I'm of the mind-set and life philosophy, "If it can go wrong ...It will go wrong ...and only to me" .....so I absolutely addressed this with her ...numerous times.


....let me throw something back at you (and others) ....if it's my wife that cheated on me ....why do I feel so ashamed?
 
#47 ·
Because you're a good man who has honorably loved your wife and children. Yet for 17 years you have had to harbor the burden of this secret, the act, the unknowns and potential consequences.

There are many here who are far more qualified to spell out things like; exposure, 180, Married Man's Sex Life, No More Mr Nice Guy etc. Do something truly different!! These will assist you in where to place responsibility and shame while building you up.

Shame and blame are not yours to carry.
 
#48 ·
Hey HS, I am sorry your wife is the one with the problem. She should have answered the questions you had 17 years ago. She got away with not having to confess her sins to you. I am sure she does not want to deal with her pain.

I am also quessing there is something else that has brought this to a head, the FL trip but is there anything else. Are you concened something is going on right now?

She needs to answer any questions you have including the details and the guys name if you want them. I am betting it is someone you know and maybe even see today. She is still covering this up.

I would also suggest you both need MC. Until those two things happen I would tell her that the FL trip would be a deal breaker.
 
#50 ·
Hey HS, I am sorry your wife is the one with the problem. She should have answered the questions you had 17 years ago. She got away with not having to confess her sins to you. I am sure she does not want to deal with her pain.

I am also quessing there is something else that has brought this to a head, the FL trip but is there anything else. Are you concened something is going on right now?

She needs to answer any questions you have including the details and the guys name if you want them. I am betting it is someone you know and maybe even see today. She is still covering this up.

I would also suggest you both need MC. Until those two things happen I would tell her that the FL trip would be a deal breaker.
...no ...I don't think anything is going on. The more details that I get (little by little) ...the more the puzzle comes together about that ONS. I've told her, however, point blank, that I do not trust her. I told her that she played that card and trust is gone, and that she really didn't do what was necessary to rebuild it. And until that occurs, I will always feel this way (which I may add, is quit a terrible way to feel all the time).

...btw ...I can guarantee that the other guy would never be anyone I know, because she met him in this little POS bar that I, nor anyone I'd know, or care to know, ever frequented.

....of course that bar is still in this town...and I avoid driving by it like the plague because it's a major trigger.
 
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