After the Lies - their connection fully revealed - Page 85 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #1261 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 07:17 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
That will be impossible. I'm not being smart about this T and I take your point but I have got to get some action. Thankfully I'm not into pros, couldn't afford it anyway. I don't like online F/Buddy stuff either - guess I'll just have to pray or something.

It's bizarre - my WS wants to stick with me but she can't connect with me physically (and yes, we know why, it's well documented - she's just not into me). The whole shebang is dead in the water.

And yet some months ago she talked about having demons and issues with men and "we're getting close" etc - these things blocking re-connection along with my inability to "get over it".

She wants to be with me and - oh boy, here's another line for that thread about quotes you don't want to hear anymore - drum roll.... "I chose you". After having her bit of fun she chose me! She saw her sordid betrayal to it's natural conclusion (until it might have started up again and who knows, may well again) and then chose me. She doesn't see any hole in that claim

I digress, the point is that if you had these issues blocking you having the Recon you want why wouldn't you be working on that? You and I know the reason but not my WS.

Onward and upward.
Would you mind laying out the reason for this as you see it? I'm curious if you see it the same way I do.


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post #1262 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-15-2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

Horizon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
That will be impossible. I'm not being smart about this T and I take your point but I have got to get some action. Thankfully I'm not into pros, couldn't afford it anyway. I don't like online F/Buddy stuff either - guess I'll just have to pray or something.

It's bizarre - my WS wants to stick with me but she can't connect with me physically (and yes, we know why, it's well documented - she's just not into me). The whole shebang is dead in the water.

And yet some months ago she talked about having demons and issues with men and "we're getting close" etc - these things blocking re-connection along with my inability to "get over it".

She wants to be with me and - oh boy, here's another line for that thread about quotes you don't want to hear anymore - drum roll.... "I chose you". After having her bit of fun she chose me! She saw her sordid betrayal to it's natural conclusion (until it might have started up again and who knows, may well again) and then chose me. She doesn't see any hole in that claim

I digress, the point is that if you had these issues blocking you having the Recon you want why wouldn't you be working on that? You and I know the reason but not my WS.

Onward and upward.
Horizon,
I have followed your thread all along, but if I get something wrong please forgive me, because I'm going from memory, and I'm low thyroid ATM so it my not be pretty, ha ha.

Here is what has been on my mind for a few days now.
I just want to say that I am in no way excusing her cheating.

As I recall you were a hard person to live with because of your depression. That kind of situation dries a woman up from the inside. I had been thinking of your wife as in the wrong but lately I see her and your marriage as damaged by more than the affair.

Let me explain what I mean. To her the (can I say) "past" Horizon is still very much in the present.

Is it possible that she does regret her affair and wants to be committed to you, but the needy draining Horizon is just hard for her to continue to prop up.

Some times her attitude does seem harsh, but maybe it is all she has left emotionally ATM. her tank is empty.

If this is the case the appropriate response on your part is not anger, but to truly work on Horizon, do what you said in your previous post, get counseling, take you meds etc, become an energy giver and not an energy taker.

I don't have boots on the ground so this could be off.

But doing the 180 so that she will seek you could be the wrong approach, it just seems like a relief for her to be free of the burden.

Don't hold that against her if it has taken a lot out of her, she is only human, I do think sometimes you have to put the affair in perspective and work on yourself and your marriage to raise the level of a reconciliation, when the relationship was hobbled in the first place. This I know is close to TAM heresy.

Can you be more patient, work on you and be someone that is fun to be with for her. Do you remember what it was like in the beginning, a phone call, holding hands, just being together were all amazing, don't be needy but try to enjoy what she is able to give, and work on being someone that she can enjoy too.

I think this is going to take some time and work. Are you willing to do that?

I think that your current approach is to her a bit like trying to hug a porcupine in a mine field.

Just consider it, if it's off I'm sorry, maybe some of our fellow posters can make some adjustments to it.

Take care!
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post #1263 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

The sex thing was hard for me too Horizon. Just keep working on yourself. And like I said, do a bit of socializing on the outside to get a feel for yourself. Basically, I found I had allowed my wife to define for me how unattractive I was through all that rejection and acting like being with me was nearly physically repulsive for her. Same sort of battlecry; “It’s all you think about and I’ll not be used for sex!”

So removed her from my equation and loosened my boundaries outside the marriage. Women were responsive (or at least I believe they were which is just as important). It changed my perception about myself and my wife as well as changing her perception about me. Basically, when a twenty something hottie knows your name and comes up to start chatting when you are out with your fourty something wife (who is also an adulterer and knows she is withholding), just kinda brings out the jealousy in them. When higher sex rank females are around and actually like you, your wife will feel it. In her head, I was lucky she tolerated me because no other woman would. Taking her out of the house and into a social venue with others who didn’t share her ‘what a loser’ opinion, eventually had her questioning who I really was and why these others saw something in me. And then fear, pure emotion. She knew I owed her nothing but the same petty vindictive behaviors she had put toward me. Let her feel she’s the loser in all this.

I’m not sure you are ready for that yet though. So, start working toward it. Work on yourself until you start seeing yourself as a real catch. Then go out and start testing that theory. Not PUA stuff where you are looking for sex; but acceptance as a friend and someone fun and interesting to talk with. If you are like me, it’s sort of like embracing the old “friend zone” bubble you used to hate as what you are now looking for. Any woman showing interest, you put in that friend zone.

And lol... I might recommend “The Game” (a PUA book). I did get it originally just to mess with my WW. But read it. The beginning ‘missions’ are about self-confidence boosting exercises and breaking out of a self-isolation shell. You do need that. I even use some of it in business to assist in networking. So go ahead and get it and leave it out on your nightstand. You don’t care if she see’s it. Let her think whatever she wants about why you have it.
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post #1264 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

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Originally Posted by Nucking Futs View Post
Would you mind laying out the reason for this as you see it? I'm curious if you see it the same way I do.
If these "profound" reasons for her inability to connect with me are not being dealt with then it tells me that she doesn't see any great need to connect - once again, all her own good time, all on her terms.
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post #1265 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

Decorum,

I think you are very close to the mark. In this awful situation when so much is at stake the whole experience is like a slow grinding devolvement into rubble. You try all these tactics and the outcome is not always to your benefit - one size does not fit all.

To your point - given my WS's personality these tactics have had little impact. Some will say it reflects the fact that she is not into me and she just can't fake it and is making excuses and creating diversions until something gives - I leave or something. That's been my thinking all along but I do wonder.

I have been an emotional drain on her, I am like that - emotionally hungry, but much less since DDay. To be fair to her it was not pretty - she had no damn right to cheat but it was not pretty. The stupidity is that she introduced a third person and just complicated the sh!t out of the wreckage of our relationship.

I do believe deep down that we are salvageable - think Costa Concordia being re-floated

I will have a much better idea as things continue to improve for me. I feel really good now and I'm hoping that as I continue to focus on me good things will come from that. A job will be the icing on the cake.

Realistically I'd like her to do a lot more remorse but she just can't do it. She shows love in small ways, that's all she has got. I have to find that space between what I believe I need in a relationship and what she is capable of giving and how she may "improve" and if that is enough.

I do have to be patient and as you say find those moments. An example would be the wrestle we had at our son's baseball game on the weekend. Nothing OTT but it was fun; I knocked her hat off a few times and she responded physically, tried to push me out of my chair, then I put a gentle headlock on her and she elbowed my ribs and went for my ears. This was all done with a quite a bit of laughing. Seriously it was fun. God knows what people thought. Who cares!

What a rollercoaster. I'm not convinced though, she is pretty selfish but we will see.
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post #1266 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

I mean I don't even know if i will ever really be able to get past the cheating even though the images don't have a hold on me, even though I feel better and stronger than the affair - I just don't know.
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post #1267 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 08:16 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

Horizon, the ONLY way I see your wife ever caring about you again is if you start getting out of your house and having a LIFE. One that doesn't include her. One that does include lots of people and lots of pretty women (who you are NOT pursuing, but she doesn't have to know that).

You need to raise your ranking. Right now it's so low it's below the floorboards and you're invisible. Start enjoying your life. She will notice.
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post #1268 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 08:16 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

And have you made an appointment with a therapist yet?
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post #1269 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 08:37 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

I think it's a mix of you getting you out as other have said, and her dealing with her alcoholism. That much drink every night is killing her ability to feel an honest emotion. It fully everything and cast a gray pallor on it.

Look I'm certainly not anti drinking, but she's taken it so far that she really is into the self medicating zone.
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post #1270 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 08:59 AM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

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Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
I think it's a mix of you getting you out as other have said, and her dealing with her alcoholism. That much drink every night is killing her ability to feel an honest emotion. It fully everything and cast a gray pallor on it.

Look I'm certainly not anti drinking, but she's taken it so far that she really is into the self medicating zone.
You are falling short here Shaggy, she's full blown alcoholic.
Absolutly no hope here unless she acknoledges and then decide to take the path of recovery. Even then, chances are she will not be aviable to a half decent relationship for at least two years in the best scenario. Recovering from alcohol requires it to be the primary, almost exclusive focus, there's little room to anything nor anyone more.


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post #1271 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

Yes, I am seeing a therapist. All going well but I do have to say that it's all territory I have covered before when I was much younger and in therapy (in my early 20's). I'm not being smug but I feel I know all there is to know - the key is how do you move beyond that and it seems to me that only I can do that by working on the here and now - learning to be that fwd thinking person and stop living in the past. I have been living in the past since my Mother stood by while my Father abused me - no doubt my siblings, who are comfortably numb to the truth, except for my beloved older brother, exist the same way.

My WS is an alcoholic, a total self medicator as observed - no ifs buts or maybes. On the weekend she bought a large bottle of whisky (1125 mls). After two nights 3/4 of it is gone (I had a little of it myself - 150 ml approx over 2 nights). She's averaging around 300-350 ml each night.

I have told her again recently that I am very concerned what the long term ramifications for her health are, let alone the damage already done. She nods her head and acknowledges what I'm saying but once again, you can lead a horse to water....

I know she is thinking about it, I can't tell you exactly why but I can see changes in her diet as an indicator she is thinking about her overall health. I am hoping that she can make that leap to dealing with her alcoholism but I suspect that it is such a huge hurdle that it may overwhelm her. In any case a big worry for us seeing she is the chief bread winner.

All the other things that go with the drinking - poor boundaries & judgement, quality of relationships etc are going to be a huge revelation if she ever gets off this awful stuff.

Last edited by Horizon; 09-17-2013 at 05:12 PM. Reason: mistake
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post #1272 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 06:13 PM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

By working on yourself you are being a good example to her.
Don't push her verbally to much for now but keep doing what you are doing. At some point hopefully she will realize that (considering he current state) you are better then she deserves. (I mean in terms of behavior). Maybe it will light a fire under her.

She is already making small (ok easy) healthy choices, but it is a start.
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post #1273 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 06:46 PM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

... and please, please, please, don't beg for sex again.

Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos
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post #1274 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 07:04 PM
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

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... and please, please, please, don't beg for sex again.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal View Post
Your marriage reminds me of a guy dragging a dead whale across the beach.
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post #1275 of 1713 (permalink) Old 09-18-2013, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: After the Lies - their connection fully revealed

OK, I accept that my hint dropping was begging for some action and yet another thing for her to view as weak and pathetic. Not any more!
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