Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

I'm Finally Done With Wife's EA

72K views 277 replies 47 participants last post by  sarcasmo 
#1 ·
I have to thank the guys over at NMMNG for helping me get over my fear and finally get up the courage to address this issue head-on, despite the potential outcomes.

FYI, my back-story:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/66745-do-i-confront-her.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/71730-recreational-companionship.html

I feel like tonight or tomorrow will be the day to finally set my boundary. I might wait until next week (kids keep us super busy, but no more excuses!), but I feel I'm ready to do it now. She has her IC tomorrow and we have date night on Friday. I figure we can spend date night figuring out the conditions of our separation or the conditions of our reconcilliation. Her choice.

Thanks to your support, I plan on setting a clear boundary: I will not be married to a woman who has a boyfriend. I will not share my wife with another man. If she cannot commit to a No Contact agreement (with the OM), then she has to move out and I will file for divorce. I will give her until Friday night to decide. That way she can talk it through with her IC.

The way I look at that, her IC is convinced I have abandonment issues, which I do, so I believe that's why she allows her to continue this affair. If the IC and my wife se that despite my abandonment issues, I'm ready to face them head-on, they may change their tune. No matter what she decides, this is for me. I just want to time it so she can work our her answer in her IC session.

I do plan on letting her know I will support her if she chooses to remain with me. I know if she will be experiencing a signifigant loss, and while I resent that, she will need reassurance that I can support her and I wont abandon her. In addition, there is no pressure to work on our marriage yet. This choice alone is a huge step towards reconcilliaiton. Once she moves out of her grief phase, we can move into repairing the marriage.

One more quick question. She has this vision of us continuing to be best friends after divorce. Spending time together with the kids, vacationing together, etc. I'm very forward thinking and this sounds interesting, but I don't think it's realistic. My parents had an awful divorce, but I know how to avoid that and remain friendly. But BFF's? That seems like too much. For one I'm not sure I can handle being around her in that situation. Maybe in time, when I'm stronger I can better handle it, but from here I feel like will just reopen the scars.

In addition, the bigger reason is how it will impact the kids. From what I understand, having these "family" times together just confuses them. Makes them relive the divorce over and over again. I don't want to perpetuate their pain. I know my wife views us as living as friends the last few years of our marriage so this seems reasonable to her, but is this really a realistic idea? I feel like I need to hit her with a dose of reality, but maybe I'm being too harsh of her view of divorce.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me on my journey.
 
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: actis123 and JCD
#67 ·
For anything thing beyond absolutely neccessary to talk about your kids or finances she is now dead to you. Like a weird stranger you can't trust. Unless she says something to you just pretend she is not there. If hse says something, keep your answeres to one word one sylable answers. She fired you as her husband.

Have you separated your accts?
 
#76 ·
Chapparal and Shaggy are really on the money here (no surprise, I almost always am in line with Chap). Forget the technicalities of the 180. You are getting too hung up on all the rules and regulations.

What you need to do is have your own version of the 180, which should be:

1) stay strong and confident around her
2) only talk to her when absolutely necessary, no emotional stuff, just business and surface banter. This doesn't mean cold per se, but stay on the surface, don't get soft and weak and emotional.
3) Do not accept her physical advances. The "Please dont. You can do that with your boyfriend" is a perfect response.
4) Be busy - hit the gym, dress nice, care about your appearance. Make plans with others.

That's really all you need to do. No need to make it complicated.

One thing though, is most important.......

Do NOT assume any of this will get your wife back. Do this for you only. Assume you are priming yourself for the next relationship. The result may be that your wife will want you again and dump the OM. But DON'T wait for that, DON'T secretly hope for it. Just work #1-4 and get ready to move on. As you stick with #1-4 for awhile, you may realize you don't even want your W back.
 
#80 ·
So you now know what your action plan includes, correct?

Get DIVORCE papers in her hands ASAP, cut the thought of separation out as an option.

Go to the hardware store now, buy an external lockstep. Collect all of her stuff from your bedroom and put the lock on the door. You can't force her out of the house, but you can at least take your own room and bed for yourself.

Go through all the accounts you have and separate them. Bank, cell, utilities, what ever. Give her notice that you expect her to pay half the mortgage, utilities and food. Keep a record and receipts for what you pay for. Cancel any joint credit cards.

You are detaching from her, and she gets a good dose of reality as well.

Oh I forgot, find the omw and tell her all that you know. Nothing you've been told about her can be trusted, it came via lying, cheating, selfish individuals.
 
#84 · (Edited)
Ok, so I'm even more confused now. The plan is to stick with the 180, but I'm gaining more insight into the breakdown of my marriage. My wife is emotionally needey. More so than the average person. I'm emotionally unavailable. More so than the average person. There's a pattern of her going outside our marriage for emotional support. I won't go into too much detail, but there have been at least 2 other emotional connections outside the marriage (both female, but one physical). And I have let it happen. Didn't stand up and say, I'm your husband. I'm consistently letting her down as a partner. Not that she is without blame. She expects me to intuitively know how to support her. She doesn't know how to explain what she needs. Leaves me at a loss as I am someone that follows directions very well, but sometimes I have problems forming my own thoughts (yes, this is probably a symptom of my NG issues). She claims to be telling me but I must be very dense.

With all that said, I feel like while this affair is probably worse than I know, I do know that our marriage is a mess. The affair is just a symptom of a bigger problem. Is treating the symptom really going to cure the underlying disease? No. And I think that's where she is at mentally. Done trying. Sees our marriage as a failure.

Of course, here I sit, refusing to throw in the towel. To dumb to see that the game is over. Sure, I'm doing the 180 for me. I need to detach. Disconnect the emotional hose if I have any hope of finding myself. But I refuse to waive the white flag. My ultimatum didn't get the intended result. I'm ok with that, but I still feel like I have a chance. Thing is, I don't know what that is.

So, the 180 is great for me, but makes her feel like she's been emotionally abandoned by me again. Blowing up the affair with exposure, just pisses her off and pushes her even closer to divorce because to her, the marriage is lost and the affair wasn't the problem. Perhaps it's fog talk, but we have been here before. I have not been there for her emotionally for a long time. If ever.

Really just rambling at this point. I'm not sure if I have actually asked a question yet. I guess I just want to know what plan would give me the best chance if success. Even if my chances are 0.001%. Which is better for my situation? A broken down marriage where the wife feels neglected and doesn't think the husband can ever meet her huge emotional needs.

FYI, not sure this matters, but she has been a wreck today. I haven't held strong to the 180 allowing emotional and marriage talk to happen, but it felt productive so I participated. She admitted she was stupid to think we could still be friends. She was even crying when I left the house tonight for me time. I'm horrible at reading people, but I think she's just sad that its over. I'd like to think its remorse or second guessing, but my gut says its just pain about how our marriage has failed.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#89 ·
You want a sliver of a chance? Kill the affair. Talk to omw, expose to friends and family. Take away the fantasy.

Stop being passive. Stop being weak. Stop sharing your wife. Stop taking her rubbing it in your face. Take your space, and your dignity.

Only if she ends the affair do you talk about anything. It is up to her to choose the marriage now, you cannot work on it alone, so stop trying to. She made her choice, make it public.
 
#87 ·
Right. The 180 is for when you have thrown in the towel and are moving on. If you want to save a marriage you have to kill the affair and let the WS know that you do not accept this in your marriage. So if they do not immediately stop the affair then you file. You do not give them time to think it over. You do not allow any fond farewells.
 
#92 ·
Really tough words to hear. Pretty much I know my marriage is over. So do I want to try one last ditch effort that may piss my STBXW off more or go away quietly like the passive fool I have been our whole relationship? I'll start gathering the exposure list. I may not go through with it, but at least I'll have done the research. Thanks everyone.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#95 ·
Do you watch old movies? Do you know who John Wayne was? Or a more modern reference might be Sean Connery. Yeah I'm showing my age and also the fact I don't watch tv.

Anyhow, picture in your mind how one of these confident masculine men would deal with the situation. Not as an azzhole or an abusive jerk, but they would deal with it in a definite and strong way. John Wayne would know he deserved to be respected by his wife and he would not put up with her idiocy for a moment. He would not coddle her. He would clearly communicate to her his position.

Would John Wayne worry about pissing off his wife by stating his position, or would he know he was doing the right thing and not worry about her reaction?

To put it another way, when you discipline one of your children you know they are not going to be happy in the moment but you know that in the long run they will be a happier and better person.
 
#96 ·
If you want any chance to save your marriage, you need to expose and at this point that may not end her A, so you may then have to file for D. But just because you expose and file for D, doesn't mean the she may not come around and try to save the marriage later. D doesn't happen overnight.

Oh and yes she will be mad you exposed but do not worry about it. A marriage can survive many things but it will not survive an active A. So be strong, confident and not too emotional when exposing. She will get angry at you, but do not listen to anything she says at that point. She may say she was going to try to work on the marriage, but because you exposed she's done etc etc. She will tell you the exposure did not help your efforts to stay married. But do not listen or engage with her about this and do not try to rationalize with her (it will not work).

Good luck.
 
#97 ·
The WS is in an addiction. They are not in their right minds. HOWEVER, you do not reach them by nicing them out of the affair. That is called enablement. At best that leads to cake eating. No one should be ok with humiliation. It is flat wrong. Encouraging someone to be humkiated is abusive IMO. It is taking advantage of a person in a very vulnerable state and using their fear of losing the WS to have them destroy their own integrity. This is the oppostie of what is going to be good for them or their marriage. Humliation is NOT attractive.

Being firm and having boundaries IS attractive. Destroy affairs or potential affairs when they are relatively small. When your brakes start to sqeak, get them fixed right away. Do not wait for the rotors to be damaged. That os much hared to and expensive to fix. Waiting longer makes them unsalvageable. That is even more expense. But the biggest issue is that there is real danger in this condition. Such is marriage. Fix the problems when they are small.

A 180 IS indeed for oneself. If one is doing it to save their marriage, they are just pouting. One should expose the affair and file and then do the 180 if the WS does not respond. That is an action plan. That has a chance of not only savin a marriage BUT having two viable human beings left in it. A marriage with a broken person in it is not a marriage.
 
#98 ·
As a cheater I can not emphasize enough..... Do not be nice.... There isn't one thing the AP's are doing that warrants being nice and caring. Literally, I hate to say this but whiny nice guys who beg and cry get played even harder and made fun of by their WS and their AP along the way. Horrible yes.... But the truth.

The more they can control you they will.... Their relationship depends on you allowing it to continue in fantasy land.

Cheaters are liars who will play the WS as long as they ca get away with it.

To the OP.... This is happening to you, stop caring about her feelings and start controlling yours.

Not that you are going to listen since you haven't yet.
 
#103 ·
I just want to make sure POSOM's family is included. Most of my WS's friends already know (she's their ring leader). I plan on telling her family, select friends, and POSOM's family. I wont tell my family. They already hate my wife due to my passively letting her dictate my relationship with my family. I f*cked that up. No need to give them more reason to hate her.

The problem with my WS is she doesn't put much weight into what other people think. If she doesn't agree, she'd rather not hear it. When her friends didn't agree with her early on and couldn't support her A, she stoped talking to them as much or just avoided the topic. Now that they have all been inspired, it's different, but my WS has a way of only hearing what she wants to hear. Always needs to be validated. Can't stand to be put in her place. I believe it's just immaturity, but I'm no shrink.
 
#102 ·
Thing is in life if you've tried something and it doesn't work, then you try something else.

What you fear, or what you are afraid of is irrelevant. We are all afraid of getting injured but it doesnt stop us from playing sport or going to work where there's a high probability that if we go into the outside world instead of sitting in one spot at home it can happen.

Fear and negative thoughts of your actions towards her affecting any chance of R are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you want to fight for your marriage because in the end it's not about what you want, it's about her. You didn't matter when she had the affair, you dont matter when she's preparing and fantazing about with OM.

Whatever you've been doing has not been working because you're bending over backwards for someone who's already detached and sailed. The ship has sailed and you're waiting on the beach for it to come back.

People dont advise exposure because they want to see the wayward get their comeuppance, they do it so the wayward can be brought back into the real world and out of their cocooned fantasy world where they ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after. She's been selfish and looked after no1, now it's time for you to do the same. She cant love you if you dont love or respect yourself.

Pity and fear should be eliminated from your life. Respect yourself, maybe then she'll respect you.
 
#104 ·
Man she is frustrating. Just got off the phone with her. Asking me if I was going to try and make her out to be an unfit mother and attack her in court (inside my brain, "no need honey, you are doing a fine job of that yourself"...out until 3 am last night...6 am Friday night). Of course I said no. I come from a divorced family and it was a nightmare. I want this to be quick and amicable for my kids. I don't want them to see us constantly fighting. It was hell.

She talks about mutual respect we have and I stop her, reminding her she has no respect for me (granted, I don't deserve it acting like a wuss). So she turns it around on me and says all those years I was using excuses (procrastination) and ignoring her pleas to get help for myself, to be there for her, that I was disrespecting her. She is so convinced the pain she experience through marriage is as great as the pain I'm experiencing now. While I don't disagree, I don't know the pain she was experiencing, I wont let her blame shift like this. Drives me crazy, but sitting her at my desk at work, there's only so much I could have said. I almost asked her to call me back on my cell phone so we could get into it, but I just figured at this point, I need to just validate and detach.
 
#105 ·
Sarcasmo,

Just read your thread. I'm sorry you are in this place.

Not an expert here, but it seems you are procrastinating with the two things folks here are urging you to do: expose and file.

Is it because you are undecided whether exposure and filing helps your chances? Or, is it because, secretly, you know it will help your chances - and deep down you really just want the marriage to fail at this point; after all, any thing that gives you a chance of R must be, deep down, intimidating, because it might just prolong your agony.


All,

The WS's friends sound like unhelpful candidates for exposure. What about WS's friends spouses? Not suggesting. Just wondering.


Sarcasmo,

As a very-likely nice guy myself, I'm hopeful that for me, no matter what happens as I apply what I'm learning from the book, the future is going to be better -- with or without my wife. I hope you can feel a little bit if hope like that too.


Take care of yourself.
 
#107 ·
Thanks, my NG brother. You are dead on. Her and I both fear reconcilliation. I fear that I will not be enough emotional support for her and I should just move on to a "normal" person. Someone who appreciates the way I work (the irony is during this process, I have awakened emotionally. I now know empathy and validation. I am a whole new person emotionally). So yes, somewhere in the back of my mind I do fear reconcilliation and she does too. But most of my inaction is based in fear. Fear of her reactions. I live my life in fear. To the point where I don't even know what I want anymore. This is what brought me to the NG book. My overall indifference towards life.

I think I have stated this before, but she doesn't want to go back to being the monster she is with me. I get that. She is afraid. I think somewhere in her heart or mind she does want "us" to work, but she is done trying because it hurts too much. [Nice Guy talk]But I do feel I can help her. We have invested enough time and effort into this marriage and if we truly communicate and I man-up that we will be OK. I feel that she will just repeat this behaviour with the next sad sack. I fear for her future and the well being of my children.[/end Nice Guy talk]

But maybe she will be OK with out me and we really are incompatible. Thing is, neither of us knows the answer. I was hoping marriage counseling would help us either fix this or end this. In an indirect way, our first round of MC did just that. She checked out when I didn't improve. I was still passive and didn't grab life by the b*lls.

An example she likes to bring up is that when trying to motivate me to seek IC, the MC said, "If I put a $100 dollar bill on the table and say it's yours if you schedule a session, will you do it?" I was stupid and honest. I said I don't know. I want to, but I don't trust myself to do it. What I should have said was h*ll yes, give me the damn phone and $100 and I'll do it right here in the middle of our frigging session! This is how I feel now and it's how I've been nehaving more often. Something comes up, I take care of it right away. No more procrastinating.

With all that said, I don't care. I want to fight for my wife. I'm not ready to give up. She needs to choose to overcome her fears, like I am. We have reversed roles. She was confident and assertive, but she is just passive these days. She would have dragged this on forever.
 
#106 ·
The sooner you file (in my locale at least), the sooner you get a provisional hearing where the judge dictates who moves out. Either way, that seems like a good hearing to have sooner than later. It must be h$ll having to live in the same house. AND staying out until 3:00 or 6:00 a.m.?!!!!!! That's just rubbing it in your face, I'm sorry to say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Entropy3000
#109 ·
Thanks! As much as I pretend to not care, I really do. It's f'd up. I feel like accepting it has made her just do it more. Now that we are on the way to D, she feels more free to pursue him. WTF?

I plan on getting to the court house on Wednesday. We were going to file together through a mediator. Would that achieve the same thing? Provisional hearing?
 
#110 ·
I get the feeling you are, similarly to me, prone to feeling guilt about anger that may be brewing inside of you. At the risk of painting myself goofy, I'll share sometimes this help me feel more comfortable with it: (video with sound, but PG I'd guess)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGiX5tbLKiY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxoLJy3m3s

In the right mood, I've heard this can be amusing to watch. For me, it always been a slight breath of fresh air.
 
#113 ·
IC is a way to follow through on a promise to yourself and your future lover, as well as your beautiful and deserving kids, that it is never going to be this way again.

This is true whether your future lover is your current wife (reborn from the ashes of these recent failures, rebuilt through intentional efforts of her own), or someone else you've yet to dream exists and you deserve.
 
#114 ·
Not been through D.

Seems fair and useful to document somehow her late nights out while living in home with the kids.

Not sure court will care, if it comes to that, but gather data while you can. Many have lied about spouse to manipulate outcome of custody hearings. Don't allow you and your kids to be victims of that.

Ask a lawyer.
 
#115 ·
Sir, you are a Time Waster.

You SAY you want that .0001% shot to fix things. YOU are out of ideas.

Are you doing the things suggested? At a glacial pace, whining, overthinking and constantly second guessing yourself.

So I am not wasting a lot of time giving advice to a person who clearly is not TAKING advice.

Do not do anything with her

Do not talk on the phone to her. Text only. If it can't be said in 5 lines, it's too much information.

Expose to everyone and ask all your relatives NOT to watch the kids for her...but be ready to watch the kids for YOU. Give them the reason.

Move one of you out of the bedroom and put a lock on the door. I personally think you should move out, but i'm not a lawyer.

If she calls screaming at you, you scream right back! How DARE she tell you you aren't worth being with? Now she doesn't get you. The world is a very cold and lonely place for a woman with kids. Remind her of that fact.

DEFINITELY tell the OMW. NOW. RIGHT THE **** NOW. If she is the ONLY person you have a number for, call her this minute.

WHY? Because her lawyer will rake him over the coals for what he is doing...so at the very least, they will have to take a hiatus. Room for her to NOT have him and MISS you. You can't crawl into her life if he's already there.

You won't do this. I already know you won't. But I feel better by yelling at you, and that's the important thing.
 
#116 ·
Sir, you are a Time Waster.

You SAY you want that .0001% shot to fix things. YOU are out of ideas.

Are you doing the things suggested? At a glacial pace, whining, overthinking and constantly second guessing yourself.

So I am not wasting a lot of time giving advice to a person who clearly is not TAKING advice.
You sir, are correct. This is my MO. Procrastination and analysis paralysis. Creeps into every facet of my life. Please allow me to apologize. It's not that I don't appreciate the advice or even disagree with it. As you said, I'm just overtrinking and to date, it has only hurt my marriage's chances of success. If there ever was a chance.

This is why I'm trying to fix myself with th NG program. You are reacting the same way my wife has for 8 1/2 years.
 
#117 ·
I know you all think the marriage is gone, but I just had a stroke of genius. Well, at least I think it is. I want to run it by you all and the NG folks as well. So far, the consensus over there is move on with your life with dignity.

I see this as an opportinuty to 1) get my b*lls back, and 2) make one last ditch effort to save my marriage. Worst case scenario, I get on with my life knowing I have tried EVERYTHING. I didn't do it right or swiftly, but I did try.

As I may have mentioned, they play volleyball Tuesday nights, then have some nice QT together afterwards (how cute). Here is my plan. I'm drafting the exposure letter now. One for her family and friends; one for his. I think tomorrow is too soon for my plan as I still have to find phone numbers, emails, and facebook pages, plus I need to get the divorce papers in order, but here is my plan:
  • While they are at volleyball, email the exposure letters, call relatives without email, and post to Facebook.
  • Confront them at volleyball. Expose them in front of everyone. Not sure if I'll need a megaphone, but I'll wing it.
  • More than likely this leads to confrontation with OM (and WS). I assume I'll get hit by more than one of them, but that's OK. I'll take my lumps and get the numbers of some witnesses.
  • Have the D papers served or at the very least, expedite the mediation process.
  • Let the courts tell us who moves out and how much money I have to give her.
What do you think? B*lls back. Confrontation out of the way. Plus I have thouroughly exposed them. Now move on with the D.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top