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I'm Finally Done With Wife's EA

72K views 277 replies 47 participants last post by  sarcasmo 
#1 ·
I have to thank the guys over at NMMNG for helping me get over my fear and finally get up the courage to address this issue head-on, despite the potential outcomes.

FYI, my back-story:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/66745-do-i-confront-her.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/71730-recreational-companionship.html

I feel like tonight or tomorrow will be the day to finally set my boundary. I might wait until next week (kids keep us super busy, but no more excuses!), but I feel I'm ready to do it now. She has her IC tomorrow and we have date night on Friday. I figure we can spend date night figuring out the conditions of our separation or the conditions of our reconcilliation. Her choice.

Thanks to your support, I plan on setting a clear boundary: I will not be married to a woman who has a boyfriend. I will not share my wife with another man. If she cannot commit to a No Contact agreement (with the OM), then she has to move out and I will file for divorce. I will give her until Friday night to decide. That way she can talk it through with her IC.

The way I look at that, her IC is convinced I have abandonment issues, which I do, so I believe that's why she allows her to continue this affair. If the IC and my wife se that despite my abandonment issues, I'm ready to face them head-on, they may change their tune. No matter what she decides, this is for me. I just want to time it so she can work our her answer in her IC session.

I do plan on letting her know I will support her if she chooses to remain with me. I know if she will be experiencing a signifigant loss, and while I resent that, she will need reassurance that I can support her and I wont abandon her. In addition, there is no pressure to work on our marriage yet. This choice alone is a huge step towards reconcilliaiton. Once she moves out of her grief phase, we can move into repairing the marriage.

One more quick question. She has this vision of us continuing to be best friends after divorce. Spending time together with the kids, vacationing together, etc. I'm very forward thinking and this sounds interesting, but I don't think it's realistic. My parents had an awful divorce, but I know how to avoid that and remain friendly. But BFF's? That seems like too much. For one I'm not sure I can handle being around her in that situation. Maybe in time, when I'm stronger I can better handle it, but from here I feel like will just reopen the scars.

In addition, the bigger reason is how it will impact the kids. From what I understand, having these "family" times together just confuses them. Makes them relive the divorce over and over again. I don't want to perpetuate their pain. I know my wife views us as living as friends the last few years of our marriage so this seems reasonable to her, but is this really a realistic idea? I feel like I need to hit her with a dose of reality, but maybe I'm being too harsh of her view of divorce.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me on my journey.
 
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#260 ·
If you haven't read my thread, you might really benefit from it.

Talk about a doormat shaped jellyfish!

You'll probably feel better about yourself when you see what a pile of spineless goo I became when my wife crushed my dreams.

It's in my signature, but it's a very long thread.

I'm feeling much better! I get more attention from women than I ever have and mostly feel indifferent to her, though I do feel disgusted in her presence still. But I just stay cool, smile, and NEVER react to her anymore.
 
#167 ·
You are not the cheater, why would you leave. You can't make her leave but you can still have the relief of telling her to [put her stuff in a garbage bag and get out. She may actually admire your backbone.

You never answered the question of who told you the OM was getting a divorce.
 
#168 ·
I already told her to move out. She said she's not abandoning her kids. How dare you ask me to abandon my kids.

She told me. She has told me everything I know about POSOM. Sadly, I believe her.

I need to start a My Story page because there is a lot of information missing. While she has been secretive and only giving bits of information at a time, she has actually been up front about having the OM the whole time. I just didn't/don't know the extent of their relationship. There were SEVERAL times she was reaching out to me to stop it and I sat back passively and did nothing. Not excusing her. I told her bluntly, you could have stopped it at any point. You didn't need me to do it, but I know that my being passive and seeming indifferent to saving our marriage allowed it to prosper and become a love relationship now. Well, at least they believe they are in love. Don't they all?
 
#170 ·
Is the Private Members Section searchable via Google? I was thinking of adding my letters there.
 
#172 ·
Do not expose imo. Exposure is to kill an affair. Your wife is totally checked out and divorce looks inevitable. It is in your favor, and thus your kids favor, for your wife to go away quietly. Exposure will anger her and possibly cause problems for you in the settlemment.

I would wait until the D is final then nuke 'em both. Keep evidenve so as to prove it when you do expose.
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#173 ·
You are engaged in a primal struggle. A man wants what you have and is in the process of taking it. Winning over your children is part of the game of securing your wife’s affections. He will not raise your children to love and respect you, but to scorn and demean you.

Gone are the times when you could retaliate with a stone to the head. Cheaterville is a very mild form of retribution in the context of our evolution. By making this man feel fear and respect, you will have a better chance of protecting yourself and your children. At stake here is everything. You cannot afford to show politeness and consideration for someone who is bent on destroying you. You must be prepared to show your wife that you are someone to be reckoned with even you have lost her as a mate.

Let her have no illusions that her betrayal will lead to friendly subservience. It is better than she thinks he nice guy you was a façade beneath which there is a man who feels the raw anger of a simple white trash country singer or gangster rap artist. The Opera Carmen is about sticking a knife in a rival. The Iliad is about the extermination of the tribe that stole the woman. You should never threaten or hint at violence, but the vibration of your anger should hang in the air and cause their sphincters to tighten.

Let posters like Chapparal, Warlock and Machiavelli counsel you in battle.
 
#174 ·
Thor and a few others here are my NG brothers. Like an alchoholic and his sponsor, I take their advice very seriously.

I will talk with a lawyer (and/or the divorced dads website) before I do anything. I want to know my rights.

Right now I'm moving ahead w/the plans again. Is the Private section really private? Google can't see it?
 
#177 ·
I have started a new Thread in the Private section. Please share your thoughts. TIA!
 
#178 ·
Sarcasmo,

Forgiving someone who hurt you is just that... You forgave them.

'And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condem thee: go, and sin no more.'

People like you a lot of time think that forgiveness is forgiving all the time, every time... They use it as an excuse to be cowardly. They forget the second part of the parable 'go, and sin no more.'

Ok, you forgave you wife for cheating on you. That is good. The bad part is she did not just stop there. She is still doing it. She was caught and is still ruining your family and so is the POSOM.

You simply don't want to stand up to this mess and be a man! You don't want to confront this whole mess because you are in truth a coward. You were born a man and God gave you a set. It is time you used them.

You will be trounced in court and beaten down. You think that this man's business will be ruined because you expose him, but in truth as it was said before, it was his actions. Your wife's actions are/were deplorable. You are letting her have her cake and eat it too.

I have 3 boys. I tried very hard not to expose them to the whole mess that I was going through, but my EX kept putting them in scenarios where I didn't like what was happening to them so I ended up telling them.

I let them know what was going on. They saw me try my hardest to save my marriage. I failed. (I'm glad of it now) I told them because one day you son may grow up and he might meet a woman that he falls in love with and one day she just might throw him away like your wife did to you. Teach your sons to be strong by leading by example. Show them that when times get tough you pick yourself up and you do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

You will not have any consequences for speaking the truth! Veritas quid est Veritas? Forgiving your wife does not give you an excuse to be a coward. It does not give you an excuse to not be a man and stand up for what is right for your children.

I guarantee that your wife is thinking right now she will get her kids, honestly because they are not yours and her POSOM. She is thinking about how POSOM is going to be a great husband, lover, and father to all the children and how they will all live happily ever after and you will just go away... mostly to live in some little hole. The only person to make this not a reality is YOU!

You get to court, she is going to take every inch she can! You have been warned and warned and warned... This is not college where it's all theory. You are getting advice from people who have been there and know what works and what doesn't. There is no 'In theory,...' It's reality.

Your children deserve a father to teach them what is RIGHT! They don't deserve the POSOM. I would sure as heck expose him to the kids. I would definitely let them know.

My EX is dating my neighbor. My kids hate him. They understand what has happened and you know what. They know what has happened is WRONG and the people who were involved were wrong. The will learn from this one way or another. They can live a life like their mom and drink and party and F*** whomever and see where that goes or like me, work hard, be honest, expect great things and just do the right thing as much as possible...

What kind of role model do you want to be here. You will be the role model of a dad who loves his kids so that he gets steamrolled or one who stands up for himself. They will see it. They will piece it together. Teach them how to be strong even when you are afraid.

It is ok to not know the answers as long as you believe you are doing what is right and best. I screwed up lots but in my heart I tried to be a good dad and that is what my kids see and respect.
 
#180 ·
Tough words, MovingAhead. The biggest issue I have is using my kids as leverage or just using them in general. First a foremost, they are smart enough to understand the situation, but so young. All three are under 7. I don't plan on isulating them from their mother's actions, but I'm not sure this age is the proper time to revel her indiscretions to them.
 
#179 ·
I guess I chose forgiveness as it's more of a sign of love.
Forgiveness without consequences is not love.

Go look up the thread about the daughter being arrested by the police. The mom is jumping through hoops to prevent the daughter from experiencing the consequences of her actions. Yet, it's clear that the best thing that could happen to her is to actually face the consequences of her actions.

One of the underlying themes of Christianity is that there are always consequences from sin; someone always has to pay the penalty for bad behavior. God forgave our sins, but Jesus still had to die on the cross to pay the penalty for your sins.

OK, you're going to forgive her, but who is going to pay the penalty for her bad behavior? You, your children, your wife, the OM, the OM's wife...who?

Forgiving her does not mean you must also bear the consequences of her actions. Consequences are teaching tools, they keep up in line, they let us know when we've strayed too far from the correct path. You are not doing her any favors by keeping her from experiencing the consequences of her actions, in fact you are hurting her; you are being cruel to her.

Yes cruel, because by protecting her from the consequences of her actions now you are enabling her to not only continue down the wrong path but to make the same (or more likely worse) mistakes in the future. That's not love.

You are not a good person because you are "forgiving her" and bearing the consequences of her sins. What you are doing is turning yourself into a martyr--nailing yourself to a cross to bear the consequences of her sin. You should not be trying to raise yourself up to some moral plane by becoming a sacrificial martyr for someone else. To be blunt, that's Jesus' role; not yours.

God designed the world so there would be consequences to our actions, so we could learn and grow from experiencing those consequences. If you really love her, then let her experience the consequences of her actions, so she can learn, grow, and become the person she is meant to be.
 
#181 ·
Forgiveness without consequences is not love.

...

Forgiving her does not mean you must also bear the consequences of her actions. Consequences are teaching tools, they keep up in line, they let us know when we've strayed too far from the correct path. You are not doing her any favors by keeping her from experiencing the consequences of her actions, in fact you are hurting her; you are being cruel to her.

Yes cruel, because by protecting her from the consequences of her actions now you are enabling her to not only continue down the wrong path but to make the same (or more likely worse) mistakes in the future. That's not love.
Thank you. I appreciate your post. I'm sure STBXW and her POSOM wont agree with the bolded part, but it's not my fault. I can't enable them. They have to face the consequnces of their actions.

I fear the consequences of my actions, but I will perservere and know that I'm just in what I'm doing.
 
#185 ·
Thanks, everyone.

I have appointments with 2 divorce mediators (hopefully) next week. I have a call into a good friend's brother who is a lawyer to inquire about my rights. I want to be protected from losing the kids if this gets ugly. I wont make any moves until that piece is in order. I plan on asking the divorce mediators the same questions, so my work with the lawyer doesn't come out of the blue. I would still like to avoid litigation if possible. After she cools of.

I hope to start the exposure next week, but it may take longer to get the legal stuff taken care of. Big unkown for me. I can always go NC while we cohabitate, but I would prefer to be out of sight.
 
#189 ·
Plus, you may think that you are in the right, but they will not see it that way and they will never forgive you for it. Kids don't see things the same way that adults do. We think in terms of right and wrong. That's too sophisticated for little kids. All they will see is Daddy attacking Mommy and her being very, very upset. They don;t understand that Mommy did something unforgivable and that Daddy was incredibly hurt and was justifiably angry. They just see nasty Daddy upsetting Mommy and they just want it to stop. And then they will always think of Daddy as the nasty one
Voltaire, you are projecting, based on your own situation.

Of course, children should be protected from the brutality of divorce struggles. But this is not possible to accomplish 100% by the very nature of business.

Parents should not enlist the children to take sides.
 
#196 ·
I never said she should be demonized. POSOM on the other hand...

And yes, I am saying OP should not keep his mouth shut to make his wife's life easier or smoother, she made her choices, she can face some of the consequences. If the kids hate the POSOM, who cares, he is nothing to the kids in the long run.
 
#197 ·
If the kids hate the POSOM, who cares, he is nothing to the kids in the long run.
How about letting the kids make their own decisions about mom's new man rather than influencing them out of spite.

This guy could be in their lives for good or he could be gone in a month.

No one knows, and it's not healthy for the children to be brought into conflict or told the new guy is not to be liked just because he stole mommy away from daddy or something like that.
 
#199 ·
No one should manipulate the kids like that. If I have an issues with the guy, its my issue. If he lives up (or should i say down) to his morales, my kids will be smart enough to not like him without my influence.

Despite her poor choices, my wife will set boundaries and not enmesh this POS in my kids lives. Ideally they are together when I have the kids. If she did try to merge their lives, I will have a lot to say about it. I dont think either of us should be too quick to introduce the kids to significant others. This is always a tricky situation.
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#200 ·
Despite her poor choices, my wife will set boundaries and not enmesh this POS in my kids lives. Ideally they are together when I have the kids.
You have no idea what your wife will and won't do when it comes to this man. You don't know her nearly as well as you'd like to think you do.

If she did try to merge their lives, I will have a lot to say about it.
She won't listen to you then either.

I dont think either of us should be too quick to introduce the kids to significant others. This is always a tricky situation.
Yes it's a tricky situation and no, neither of you should be too quick to introduce the kids to significant others. That much being said, there's nothing you can do to stop your wife from introducing the kids to her significant other.

She's probably convinced herself it's the best thing in the world for them.
 
#222 ·
northland, read this and OP's others threads.
It's very unlikely OM didn't know she was married and living with his husband. He likely knew from the very beggining. Indeed WS usualy bond by meeting the needs they say lack in the currrent relationship, BSs are demonized, they become saviors... He surely was perfectly aware of their living arrangements, their childrens lives... of course with the "filters" up.
It's not about seeing the D paperwork. It's about not intruding in a troubled relationship yo begin with, and this is a long marriage wich involve children!
Refusing to admit APs' accountability in the final dismissal of the marriage scapes me.
It's like letting a bank robber off the hook becasuse he had a "inside man".
Every relationship and a set of problems, ups and downs. You just don't intrude taking adventage of a "down", specially with children in the mix. It's not cool at all. It speaks about OM's character. No doubt.
They only AP who are blameless are the one completely lied to (believed they were single and free to date).
 
#225 ·
northland, read this and OP's others threads.
It's very unlikely OM didn't know she was married. He likely knew from the very beggining.
This. The POS met me at my house. He knew we were married. Does he know the status of our marriage, no. Not like we tell every delivery boy that we are separated or divorcing, but the POS knew we were married when they started this bullsh*t.
 
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#232 ·
Lets be realistic. A guy meets a woman, she tells him her marriage is over, a divorce is pending, and it's only a matter of time. What's he supposed to do, subpoena her for court records?
I agree with Northland on this point. People are getting separated, married and divorced all the time. The idea that some people are off limits is much weaker today. A civil marriage ceremony probably includes no definition of what most people assume a marriage commitment means. Simply put infidelity is not a crime.

No one is arrested for adultery. Moreover, even the civil consequences are small. Fault is not an issue in many states and countries.

Therefore, the issue of married people being seduced, predatory, etc. is not that big a deal. As Mach likes to put it a husband can be retroactively divorced in the court of the rationalization hamster as OM slides his hand into WW's panties for the first time.

When someone is waiting for D to be finalized, sexual relations outside of marriage is no longer cheating to most people.
 
#237 ·
This is kinda getting sidetracked on the whole predator or not thing and really it makes not difference what you want to call him just like it would not matter a hoot whether the OM's name is John or Bob. Simple questing have you filed yet? If not why? You marriage is gone, dead, buried and the bones have been gnawed on by dogs. File the papers just like in a fight better to get the first punch in she has had you on the ropes and you have taken some mighty big blows but nows the time to do some dirty boxing with a good elbow to the face. FILE the PAPERS.

Hope you see the other end oh and I also hope you give as good as you have gotten.:smthumbup:
 
#239 ·
This is kinda getting sidetracked on the whole predator or not thing and really it makes not difference what you want to call him just like it would not matter a hoot whether the OM's name is John or Bob. Simple questing have you filed yet? If not why? You marriage is gone, dead, buried and the bones have been gnawed on by dogs. File the papers just like in a fight better to get the first punch in she has had you on the ropes and you have taken some mighty big blows but nows the time to do some dirty boxing with a good elbow to the face. FILE the PAPERS.

Hope you see the other end oh and I also hope you give as good as you have gotten.:smthumbup:
:iagree:
File asap
 
#241 ·
Good for you remember this is all about you now. You still love her and care for her but you have to get past that. You need to only worry about what you want for YOUR life. Treat her just like her actions have shown she wants to be treated as someone who took you trust and love and tossed them away life garbage. YOU don't owe her anything. And keep posting you need the support and the place to vent.


Good things are coming your way.
 
#242 ·
Thanks, CEL. I do still love her so I have had a really hard time detaching. Every time I think I have, I get sucked back in. Either by a comment of hers (that gives me hope) or my own weaknesses. I hope that after the divorce process begins and I get past the exposure, I will have an easier time detaching. In house separation sucks. Depending on how the mediation goes, and what my lawyer says, I may still pursue moving out once I'm protected from losing the kids. It will be much easier to go "dark" on her then and really rebuild my life.

Btw, I'm trying not to engage in arguments, but last night she was in a foul mood and I couldn't walk away or STFU. I should have, I'm just too stupid sometimes. Anyway, I suck at arguing so I'm wondering if any of you have any advice for when she pulls this one me. I know I shouldn't engage, but just in case...

Basically, I blame her for the infidelity and tell her how hurt I am and she turns around and blames me for all the hurt she felt during the marriage. All the years she begged me to change and I did nothing. All those years she was fighting to save the marriage and I sat back passively not working at all to change. I see that. I know I f'd up. I can't apologize enough. I know her pain was awful, but she still goes there every time we fight and I have nothing to come back with. I know I shouldn't even engage in these arguments, but the are the kinds of moments I draw a blank. Frozen in my Nice Guy shame. It sucks.
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#243 · (Edited)
Her: "You never worked on our marriage."

Him: "You are correct."

Her: "You never loved me or tried."

Him: "If that is what you believe, who am I to tell you differently."

Her: "You forced me to do this."

Him: "I never held a gun to your head. If you were so dissatisfied, you should have just left. You didn't but now you are leaving after...doing what you did. I may have forced you away, but I never forced you to cheat."

Her: (saying other inflammatory things)

Him: "So...is this about rubbing my nose in your infidelity and trying to hurt me? We are done. Let go and leave me in peace so we can do this amicably. You presence bothers me."

And there is always the generic "For someone who no longer cares about me, you certainly seem passionate about arguing with me and hating me. Sorry for having ruined your life. Can you please stop upsetting the children."
 
#247 ·
Good stuff as always, JCD! I have to keep these in my pocket at all times.
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#273 ·
You should work on your self worth. Try reading some of Brene Brown's books, like the gifts of imperfection, and daring greatly. Read them until you understand them, and would be able to clearly explain the concepts to another person, then start practicing the techniques.
Sh*t. How did I miss this? Way back when we were (OK, when she was) trying, in marriage counseling, our MC told us to watch a TED presentation by Brene Brown. I remember it being very good. F*ck man, where was my drive 12 months ago? Now I'm hyperfocused on a marriage I can't save. Hopefully BB can help "me". Grabbed The Gifts of Imperfection.
 
#248 ·
Just venting. My STBXW couldn't sleep last night and took off this morning around 4 or 5. My kids woke up around 7:30 and thankfully didn't ask where their adulteress mother was. She has an aerobics class an 9:00 and usually gets out if the house early for it, but today was ridiculous. Asked her where she went; no answer. Told her fine. I already assume where you went so I'll go with that. No answer. Ridiculous. The woman is beyond gone right now. Why do i let it bother me?

$100 says she takes more time later tonight to go see him.

Anyway, I took some me time last night, hung out with an old friend, and didn't get in until 2:30-3:00 am (I do see how time can fly, but I won't tell her that). Felt good hanging out with someone. She texted me some crap about her having to get used to what I've been getting used to. Watching me go out and hoping I'm safe. I texted back, almost the same thing. Just add in utter betrayal, heart ripping pain, and mind movies and you will almost understand my pain. Didn't ruin my night. Looking forward to spending more time with friends and family. Let her "worry about my safety"...
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