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I want to investigate my mom because my dad won't

42K views 247 replies 51 participants last post by  SadandAngry 
#1 ·
Hi,

I originally posted here with a list of red flags that concerned me about my mother's behavior, with the suspicion that she may be cheating. Here's that thread again if anyone wants to go over the list:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/72097-someone-looking-help.html

Eventually, I decided to talk to my dad about my mom's change in behavior without bringing up infidelity, and as I thought he would he told me not to worry about it. He said that she was going through "changes" because of her age (turning 50 this year), and that her work is stressing her out, and that we should be nice and give her a break. So I kind of backed off for a while but the 'red flags' persisted and built up to a point where it was hard for me to even be in the same room as her. These are sort of the major ones that set me over the top, in addition to the previously existing red flags:

- She's been going out more with a divorced friend of hers. My mom usually gets annoyed when we ask her who she's meeting but this woman usually picks my mom up from our house, so that's how I know who she's going with. This woman bothers me because she's always trying to influence my mom to do things based off of her single woman mentality (like she's always going "Oh we should go here" "We should do this" "We should do that"), when it's really just her dragging my mom along because she doesn't want to venture out on her own. Not to be rude, but at that age it's probably hard to find another single person and I can't help but think that this woman just wants a friend to act single with her.

- Another thing that bothered me about this woman's influence was that on a day where they were going to a spa to get massages, she said to my mom, in front of my sister and me, "When's the last time you spent an hour on a bed with a hunky guy all over you?" I mean, okay it's great that you think you're funny, but do you have to emasculate my dad in front of his children in his own house? I don't get it, seriously, who does that? To make it worse, my mom gave her a playful "Let's go!", which really freaking annoyed me.

- My mom didn't want to do ANYTHING on Mother's Day. It didn't help that my dad was working, but we offered to cook her breakfast, to take her out shopping and to lunch, and to make dinner/take her out but she didn't want to do any of it and she just watched T.V. the whole day. Like I said in the other threat, my mom says she feels unappreciated (no matter what anyone does), so I thought maybe she didn't want to be with us if someone was making her feel appreciated.

- Also on Mother's Day, she got a succession of pings on her phone but she wouldn't check them in front of us. My sister and I decided to go out and get her lunch, and when we left I realized I forgot my driver's license and when I went back inside to get it, my mom was on the phone, and when she saw me she put the phone down and asked "What are you doing?"

- Recently, she went to a night event for her work. The event was supposed to be over at 9:30 and she told my dad she'd be home by 11 but she got home around the time when I stopped studying, which was past midnight.

- I found an unsigned card on the floor, and all it said was "You are a queen and should be treated like one. Thinking of you." I couldn't tell if it was male or female handwriting but when I gave it to my mom she acted unnecessarily dismissive about it, and told me it was just something a co-worker gave her for Mother's Day. I didn't ask if it was a man or a woman who wrote it because I didn't want her to catch on.

So I really just want to find out whether or not my mom is cheating and I just need help. My mom obviously needs some kind of help herself regardless of if she's cheating or not, and we've tried helping her my dad's way ("be nice because she's your mother") but that always backfires. She almost never wants to talk about things, and on the rare occasions she does, it's always HER, HER, HER, and she is literally unable to empathize or sympathize with us. It's like she never hears what we say to her because she's thinking of the next way to victimize herself. As an example, when she misinterprets something my sister and I say to her or our tone of voice, it's our fault because we should have expressed ourselves in a way she could understand. But when she's misinterpreted, it's our fault still, because we should have been more understanding of her and we jumped to conclusions. My mom has always been stubborn, but in the past, if my dad told her she was wrong, she was wrong. Now her stubbornness surpasses my dad's word, and if he tells her she's wrong she gets even more incensed. If she wasn't cheating, I don't think we'd have a problem defusing things through communication like functional families do. But I think if she is cheating, her partner makes her feel wanted/appreciated and "the fog" (which I learned from here) makes her relationship seem perfect, which would validate her feelings that she's right and we're wrong, which would explain her unwillingness to compromise. Anyway, sorry for ranting again! But the adults in my life would either be at risk of telling my mom everything I say to them or are too pretentious to talk to, and friends don't have the experience that you guys do.

For the TLDR people, I just want to know how to catch a cheater is all. Thank you.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Wow, the whole time I felt like I was reading a great story told in a kids perspective. You're very clever. How old are you by the way?

Now to my opinion on this matter. I think your mother is looking for attention... Or perhaps, she has a couple of guys on her list already. They're probably not having sexual intercourse yet but in the process of building the chemistry THEN leading to that part that I've mentioned.

She doesn't want to look for attention from your father. I think she has gone to a stage where she "thinks" she can do better, through her pretentious friend, and that's probably why she's acting like this. This is the stage where break ups happens in normal relationships and they have friends to bolster them...

I think it has something to do with her age as well... She thinks she's missing something in her life and she's getting old and want to enjoy it before it gets too late.

Oh and the friend is a huge bi**h for saying that in front of you guys to your mom. She's very disrespectful... Especially for saying that in front of a very clever kid.
 
#3 ·
Your father is very lucky to have you.

At this point you should be very blunt with your father about what you think is goin on. Use the words physical and emotional affair. Mention the card and the 'pings'.

Make the point that whatever 'changes' she's going through should not include behavior that jeapordizes their marriage.

After that.....SEND HIM HERE!!!
 
#32 ·
I had been thinking this all along, but I told myself that my dad wouldn't allow something like that to happen. I know the probability that he knows is higher than I want to admit it is, because he's good at reading peoples' emotions, and when since my parents have been together for such a long time it's pretty unlikely he doesn't think something is wrong.
 
#8 ·
My Mom did that to me when I was 16 and it took me 10 years to figure it out. There were several guys. My step-dad never knew. They divorced (not due to her cheating) and she has been having an affair with a married man for nearly 20 years now. She's the OW, he lives partially with her, she's paying part of his bills and the best....he's cheating on her. The woman he's cheating on the woman he's cheating on his wife with (get's confusing, I know) has at times confronted my Mom demanding she stay away from him. The drama!
Tell your Dad! It will hurt but he has a right to know.
 
#9 ·
My Mom did that to me when I was 16 and it took me 10 years to figure it out. There were several guys. My step-dad never knew. They divorced (not due to her cheating) and she has been having an affair with a married man for nearly 20 years now. She's the OW, he lives partially with her, she's paying part of his bills and the best....he's cheating on her. The woman he's cheating on the woman he's cheating on his wife with (get's confusing, I know) has at times confronted my Mom demanding she stay away from him. The drama!
Tell your Dad! It will hurt but he has a right to know.
 
#10 ·
Alyssa,

I am sorry you are here. I really am. I have 3 boys and I see the damage to them that their mother's infidelity caused.

Your dad may be old school like me and may not believe this is something your mom would ever do. I honestly believe your mom is on a serious path to self destruction. I believe that your worst suspicions are right.

My EX had some very toxic friends that would have her party like she was a single woman... I in my infinite foolishness believed she was just having fun with the girls and didn't mind her blowing off steam. Your mom's friend is helping her destroy your family.

This is tough. Your dad is probably working to pay for a lot of things in the house, school etc... He may not have time for your mom like he used to but he seems like a decent fellow.

My thoughts are this... She didn't want anything for mothers day because she probably feels guilty because she is doing something very bad and she isn't being a good mother and knows it.

I also believe that she put the phone down when you came in because she is having some type of inappropriate relationship with a man... I'm sorry to say that but it reeks of a common theme I have seen so many times... If she is secretive about her phone she has something to hide.

Your mother's friend is TOXIC. Your dad may be blind to this but you see it pretty clearly and there are tons of red flags here.

Your mom is not only cheating on your dad but your family as well. My EX still doesn't understand why my kids 'hate' her... 'hate' may be strong but it's a decent fit...

You might have to sit your dad down and have a 1 on 1 with him, probably like he might have with you when you were little. If you aren't an adult now, going through this process will make you one and I am sorry for that I really am. Innocence is gone and it is a shame.

Your dad may be in denial and may not want to face what your mom is doing and that is his choice. It's not that he doesn't love your mom, but knowing that your wife may be betraying you and having plausible deniability sometimes is a lot better than finding out the truth and having to face infidelity. Infidelity is the most painful thing that has ever happened to many of us.

This is hard for you but this is a point in your life where you see what you are made of. Do you stand by and watch someone you love do something so utterly wrong to someone else you love? It's not your fight, but it is as you are affected greatly by this.

It may have not gone to far so you may think of a flanking approach. You know her friend is TOXIC. You know she is convincing your mom to share in her single life and you probably have an idea that your mom has started an EA at best.

You can confront your mother. Tell her you know what she is doing and how wrong it is. You don't have to say cheating. You can be overly vague but you can tell her about the phone, mother's day, friend...

The next time her toxic friend comes over. Walk up to her and tell her 'Thanks for ruining my family... Mom is having fun right now, but at the expense of destroying my family and I would like to personally thank you for destroying my father's happiness, my happiness and my idea that there are good people in the world like I thought my mother was...'

Make no doubt your mom will lash out at you for interfering with her fantasy life and you may get a lot of backlash for interfering.

If interfering and saying that this is 'bad' is what you feel you should do then I wish you all the best. People don't magically turn adult when they reach 18. There is an event in their life when they stand up and define who they are with their actions that make them an adult.

The best way is usually to meet things head on. I am truly sorry you are here. I really am. It helps me see the pain my kids go through even more. God bless you and I hope that whatever you choose works out best.

The card... Your mom is having an affair. What is F--d up... Your mom's friend is encouraging it. She knows it is happening. Your mom confides in her... They are in a fog of getting thrills through the sneaking around... My EX had a friend she did this with.

Your dad is going to get blindsided... You may want to help him protect himself financially etc... Your parents getting divorced at this point in your life could have serious repercussions for you going to higher learning etc... Your mom is being extremely selfish and the other woman, her friend is a total piece of crap!
 
#27 ·
I thought about that too, and it could be possible thinking about the friend's history. When she was going through the divorce, I remember my mom saying that she was seeing a few guys at the same time and that none of the relationships lasted more than a few months. I guess her friend could have given up on men or is insecure in relationships with men now. Also, my mom and this friend have known each other since elementary school, so I guess if my mom were to try something like this it would be easier to do it with someone she's comfortable with.
 
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#29 ·
Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it. About the phone bills: Since we all use the same carrier my family's always been on one account under the same plan, but around 5 years ago I actually remember my mom splitting off because she got promoted and said she needed a different plan for work. So I guess that's another 'red flag'
 
#12 · (Edited)
Print this and give it to your dad. Do not let him confront early. It leads to him knowing she is cheating but she is now underground and 100 times harder to bust.

Dear "Alyssa's" dad.

This is going to be one tough read. My name is "weightlifter" and I have perhaps a dozen cheating wives busted under my belt since I came to TAM about 6 months ago. I am not really known for being subtle. I am Mr hit you over the head with the truth. Your daughter is rightfully concerned about your wife and likely correct. Be proud of her, she seems quite intelligent. She sees the things that quite frankly you are likely deliberately ignoring.

If you are a numbers man, and most men are, let me lay it out for you. There is a VERY high likelyhood your wife is banging another man. Is that OK with you? I hope you are not ok with your wife being inseminated by another man. I hope the previous sentence wakes you up. Here is a number. 95%. There is at least a 95% chance your wife is having an affair. Even if they are not doing the deed she is very likely sexting him. Is that OK with you? Is another man having naked pics of your wife OK?

Yes, the CAUSE is likely a mid life crisis, and, also boredom. A good loving man is boring. Women crave excitement of alpha males. Players use this one. Google "how to seduce a married woman" There is a script for it and it is surprisingly easy. These men will often work a couple women simultaneously. One of their techniques is wedging with left handed compliments. "OH your husband must be working very hard to not ever have any time for you" is a wedge. I suspect this has been used against you given one of the red flags your daughter mentioned.

1) Buy 2 Sony ICDPX312 Voice Activated Recorder, then go to Wallmart and buy HEAVY DUTY velcro and attach it to the bottom of her car seat. ATTACH IT FIRMLY. Dont go for the RCA ones. Buy Sony. They are 50 bucks each, the sound quality is very good, response VERY fast and they dont automatically deactivate after 15 hours. The 30 dollar ones are crap. HIDE the second one wherever she talks inside the house to friends. HIDE IT WELL. USE LITHIUM BATTERIES.

If necessary, get the program Audacity. Its free from the internet. Learn how to use filters. This program can be used to lower ambient noise like engine noise from recordings. I have used it to clean up VARs for a couple other men to bring out speech their cheating wives did while talking to their boyfriends in their car. Get a set of headphones. They help. Do your var work when your wife is not around OR have youtube up and have it ready to go. If she asks you what you are doing, you are listening to your favorite music on youtube because the comp speakers are crap.

Look at the phone bill for shared cell accounts. Ill bet there is an unfamiliar phone number popping up 10 times a day either in phone or text. Don't be surprised if its hidden under a female name.

Learn your wifes unlock pattern then get her phone when she is in the shower. This one is chancy. Look at call history etc. Learn where the history functions are exactly so you can be fast one time then do your actual looking the following opportunity.

Look up how to recover deleted texts in whatever phone you have. Look for apps like text free. Look for games she does not play... It probably has a chat feature.

Facebook. Look at her friends. Is there a male you don't know? Perhaps a female with only 1 friend? Its him hiding. Check those FB text logs.

A more difficult task is keylogging computers. "Webwatcher" has been used successfully by a number of men here.

Your wife has like 4 MAJOR red flags and half a dozen minor ones. STEEL YOURSELF.

1) DO NOT CONFRONT WITHOUT GOOD EVIDENCE!!! Your wife will shoot you down EASY. One recent story a man confronted with just 2 red flags. The hiding texting thing WHICH YOUR WIFE IS DOING!!!! and not owning up to her location then saying she was with a female friend. That friend was quite male was banging his wife for a year. Needless to say. She shot him down hardcore and acted offended his first soft confrontation. He came here, we showed him what to do and he found about 5 more red flags but no real proof until he listened to the VAR. The VAR was the smoking gun. Once he had hard proof including a PI, he broke her in a minute and she confessed a year+ long affair.

Come to talkaboutmarriage CWI forum. Its a depressing place but we are VERY VERY good at helping the betrayed bust their cheating spouses.

PS. If you hear another man get into the car with her STOP LISTENING!!!!! and have a trusted friend listen for you and give you a heads up. Hearing your wife moan while another man is insider her will mess you up much worse than just knowing she is banging another man.

NEVER reveal VARS or TAM!!! knowledge of either or both will vastly increase her ability to cheat undetected. How you busted her is none of her damn business. Tell her it was a PI once you know who and where.
 
#13 ·
Hi Alyssa,

Its so ironic that you would post again. For the last couple of days Ive been thinking about you and wondering how your situation had turned out. Because I read so much and have a bad memory I couldnt remember your name to check for an update so Im glad you posted again.

I hate that you are in the situation you are in. Maybe you could leave a voice activated recorder around the house and then leave like you did the last time. Maybe you can catch her talking to someone. Or put it under the seat of her car with velcro. This shouldnt be your job but I understand your anger with her and the fact that your dad is being so dismissive is making the situation worse.

I hope you find what you are looking for.
 
#14 ·
Alyssa,


You should consider broadening your view a bit. You seem to be convinced that your mom is cheating on your dad with some other man, and you are focused on that possibility only.

Besides the possibility that your mom is not cheating at all, there are still two other likely possibilities here. These things do happen, even if they might blow your mind:

1. Your mom is seeing another man, but your dad already knows about it, and he's OK with it.

2. Your mom is seeing another woman instead of a man, and that might not bother your dad (You did mention she's spending an awful lot of time with her divorced friend).

You can tell your father your suspicions but in the end keep in mind that it's his wife, his marriage, and not yours.
 
#30 ·
I've actually considered both scenarios and both are equally bothersome. I understand that it's my dad's wife and my dad's marriage, but there's three children involved here with the possibility that one decision (or indecision) impacts the whole family, not just the parents. If my mom is cheating and my dad is sweeping it under the rug then they both will lose the respect of their children. My mom for cheating, and my dad for ignoring the psychological and emotional duress caused to his children. Let's be realistic, if my mom wants to cheat and my dad lets her, the marriage might be "saved," but really that's pretty much prolonging implosion. No matter what the reasons are for allowing it to happen, both of them have disgraced the family and no one wins. And when you have a 13 year old girl that cries herself to sleep because she doesn't know why her mother's changed, you draw a line. I never said it was my marriage to babysit, this has always been about family.
 
#15 ·
Here's a simple question to ask your Dad, if you haven't already.

Dad, if mom was cheating on you, would you want to know? If he says no, then you have a decision to make. Either let it go, or take your own steps to investigate and subsequently confront your mother.

If he says yes, give him the letter from weightlifter.
 
#16 ·
Many red flags are there.

What do you want? What would be your goals at exposing anything?

When I was your age I help my parents through a difficult time in their marriage. I set up counseling for them and in fact went to the first session with them (at their request). I was living in New York at the time and they were in Southern PA, so it was not convinient for me. The issue was between them but they looked at me for guidance at that time. I did one session with them and that was it for me, I felt I did my part.

There are several reasons people cheat and we don't know if your mom is there. If that is what your gut is telling you then I suspect that she is.

My son put a GPS in our car in 2011, the one that my wife drove and we busted them. I was living in another city at the time and would come home on weekends but the A started months before I even got the promotion and we were living together at the start of her A. My son wanted to do this as things did not make sense as to where his mother (my wife) said she was.

He was not as emotionally involved as me leading up to d-day. It was nice to have him involved. I did not ask him to do this.

Your situation is different. You feel like your mom is cheating and it does seem like your dad is clueless.

I will give you my take on how I would do this. I would not confront without proof and I mean solid proof. I don't know if you are up to it or not and will only say to you that I am only giving you my take on it. I would get solid proof. Leave your dad out of it for now. Don't show your cards, your suspicions, until you have solid proof.

Your title says it all, You want to investigate, then do it, and be smart about it. VARs in the car. Try to act normally around your mom. Buy a tracphone, keep it hidden, pay cash only and pay cash only for airtime. Try texting your mom, anonymously, and see how she responds to a simple "hey sweetie, I got a new phone number," If she responds positively, send her a smiley. Ask her to forward "that special text so you can have it on the new phone". If she takes the hook it will not be long before she figures out that it is not the other person. Leave her name out of any texts. And when she responds with a who is this text, respond by saying, stop playing with me Mary, or some other name. If she responds then says oops, this is embarrassing, I just realized I typed in the wrong number in the beginning of these texts, sorry wrong person, I am lousy using these phones and leave it at that. You may get info or nothing and it will cost you around $40.00.

When you have solid proof decide on how to confront your mother. You will have several options, directly between you and her, with you dad present, to your dad only, through a third party.

If this plays out and is proven that your mom is in an A, I would tell your dad, "Daddy, no matter how you feel about what I did to prove mom was cheating on you, know that I had your back and will always have your back".
 
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#17 ·
Dont do the random text thing until other avenues like var and phone records have been exhausted. She will figure out it is not from him within a day then know someone is on to her. She will then take it underground and we get RDMU again.
 
#18 ·
I'm going to be in the minority here. I have a real problem with kids getting involved in their parents' marriage business.
Alyssa I would suggest you get into therapy yourself. How old are you?
This is so bad emotionally for you. You are crossing so many boundaries and doing work that isn't yours to do.
I would suggest you ask your dad if he would want to know. If yes, show him the post from weight lifter. If not, you need to let it go.
Make your own life for yourself and care for your family but don't play a parent or care taking role. It seems very codependent to me.
I'm sorry that your mother has issues but you can't change her. You can only change yourself.
 
#21 ·
By default, children are dependant on their parents. That fact doesn't mean that the child has 'issues'. Even as adults, we still want our parents, especially if they are good parents. When they are not, that creates a certain sense of emptiness. So, by definition and by nature and by no fault of our own, we are all in some way dependant on our parents....and indeed those around us to varying degrees.

I think when a parents marriage and issues start affecting the children then it is absolutely a good thing for the children to take action in whatever way they are able to. E.g. telling them to stop arguing....parents should not row in front of their children.

However, I don't totally disagree with you diwali, but I do think all people in a family have their role to play. If one person is failing miserably, it affects the whole family.

Alyssa, I am sorry your initial chat was fruitless. There are ways to catch your mum, as mentioned above, just be very very careful. I think if you do find anything then it is definitely up to your father to confront. And to ensure your actions are not brought into it. You do not want to end up as a scapegoat for your mums anger....and she will be VERY VERY angry if and when caught. Don't be the one to bear the brunt of her wrath. You may find your father is not grateful either. Definitely find out of he wants to know 1st and foremost. Best of luck with your situation.
 
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#23 ·
Yes, that is a big concern.

Though I think that situation would occur only if mum felt that you Alyssa, were conspiring 'against' her with your dad. That you were 'against' her. Ganging up on her. If your mum had any contrition whatsoever though, she would be absolutely mortified that you knew, and that you were reduced by her actions to spying on her, snooping. That would be an awful thing for any sane mum to feel that she had caused her daughter to do this.

I think you just have to be ready for any eventuality. And prepared.

If it was me, I think I would be doing exactly what you are. And if my dad didn't want to confront, I think I would have to regardless. Purely to vent how much she has hurt me and how disgusted I am with her behaviour.
 
#24 ·
Alyssa- You're very perceptive and it looks like you spent some time here educating yourself about this topic. Well, now your dad needs some education.

One of the typical patterns here is the astonishment husband's feel when they realize their wife might not be so loyal. They almost always feel like it can't happen to them. Sure, infidelity happens, but they always feel like they can trust their wife. She would never do anything like that to hurt the family.

Somehow your dad needs to come to this forum. He needs his eyes opened and to realize what's going on, and he has to be the one to take the appropriate steps, not you. I hope his head's not stuck too far in the sand.
 
#33 ·
My mom has always been stubborn, but in the past, if my dad told her she was wrong, she was wrong. Now her stubbornness surpasses my dad's word, and if he tells her she's wrong she gets even more incensed. If she wasn't cheating, I don't think we'd have a problem defusing things through communication like functional families do. But I think if she is cheating, her partner makes her feel wanted/appreciated and "the fog" (which I learned from here) makes her relationship seem perfect, which would validate her feelings that she's right and we're wrong, which would explain her unwillingness to compromise. Anyway, sorry for ranting again!
Everyone else is covering things pretty well. So I thought I'd bring this up as I find it a interesting bit.

So in the past, if your father said your mother was wrong.. she just folded and accepted his chastisement? Is this right?
And you are also upset because she also does not accept it any more when you tell her that she’s wrong?

Is this a correct assessment of what you have said here?
 
#34 ·
It was more like she accepted the reasoning behind his scolding and then understood that she was wrong. Now, if the same situation occurs, it's like my mom doesn't accept anyone's reasoning but her own. Like I said, she seems completely void of empathy and believes that she's always in the right, that her feelings are always justified, and that anyone who opposes that is in the wrong.
 
#36 ·
I'm sorry you didn't like what I had to say. That doesn't mean it was condescending.
I just don't see how you exposing this is going to help anyone. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I think you should talk to a counselor about how to handle this so you can protect yourself and decide what is the right thing to do. Maybe someone who has experience with family systems.

And I'm not saying you are crossing boundaries in terms of their privacy or their rights, but in terms of your role as their child. It really reminds me of an alcoholic family system where the oldest child plays the hero trying to rescue everyone and the other parent is just turning a blind eye and enabling.
Maybe her addiction is her affair.
Either way you are in a sick family system and you need professional help to navigate your way through without getting caught in the usual traps and roles.
You might want to take a look here:
http://claudiablack.com/documents/toD_docLib/13.pdf


From the page...
llowing are some examples of beliefs we hold that drive our behavior.
Beliefs of the Responsible Child: "If I don't do it, no one will."
"If I don't do this, something bad will happen, or things will get worse."
Beliefs of the Adjuster Child:
"If I don't get emotionally involved, I won't get hurt." "I can't make a difference anyway."
"It is best to not draw attention to yourself."
Beliefs of the Placater Child:
"If I am nice, people will like me."
"If I focus on someone else, the focus won't be on me and that is good." "If I take care of you, you won't leave me or reject me."
Beliefs of the Mascot Child:
"If I make people laugh, there is no pain."
Beliefs of the Acting Out Child:
"If I scream loudly enough, someone may notice me."
"Take what you want. No one is going to give you anything.
 
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