Some of you may recognize my story. My wife of 6 years and mother of my two children went on a bit of a post-partum party spree at nightclubs with her hot, married friend over the past 6 months or so. (Just the two of them, even though combined they have tons of girlfriends that could have made it them true “girls nights out”). I didn’t so much force her to end it as much as let her know that when she slips out at the last minute to “go dancing”, I’m no longer going to pretend I don’t know she really means “going w.h.o.r.i.n.g at meat markets until closing time”. Of course, it was all SOOO innocent, and I was the controlling jealous husband who couldn’t handle her “going out”.
I left this forum for a while (I felt like I overstayed my welcome, obsessing on this). Although the replies helped, I needed to hear from more than just a few people with opinions. Get a more statistically significant sample of opinions, so to speak. So I went on a few forums, including this one. But instead of posting the same question and waiting for replies to trickle in, I key-word searched “clubbing” to look at old posts related to my problem. Over the past couple of days, I must have read hundreds of posts related to clubbing, (or “going out dancing”, as my wife so innocently put it). Most of what I read was not necessarily from paranoid SO’s such as myself, but just innocent comments from people into the clubbing scene.
What an eye opening experience. I would NEVER have let my wife do this had I REALLY known what goes on there (I’ve actually never been “clubbing” before. Not my thing). I’d heard all of the stereotypical rumors, but I trusted my wife and wanted to be a good, trusting husband. After all, she’d just popped out 2 kids for me.
I will make a long story short by saying to all other ignorant SO’s such as myself: you’d better have 100%+ trust in your wife’s intentions, set ground rules, go with her occasionally to see if she can really have fun even with you there. See if she can enjoy herself there without flirting, grinding, kissing strangers, or generally partying and drinking with multitudes of strange men all night. Otherwise, consider her cheating on you the minute she walks out the door.
I was AMAZED at what is considered acceptable behavior in nightclubs. I was amazed that people knew this type of behavior went on but railed against others who had a problem with their spouse partaking in it. Grinding on a dancefloor as though it were a handshake. Making out with strangers as though they were blowing air kisses, then moving on to the next flirtation. Dancing with strange men and moving onto another before the next song even started. Men grabbing asses, inappropriately dancing with girls they just walk up to. Women who were WITH DATES would be surrounded by horny men as soon as the date left for the restroom. Can you IMAGINE what happens when two attractive girls show up and start dancing together? (And my wife’s friend is smoking hot).
If your wife/girlfriend likes to throw herself into that environment on even a semi-regular basis, she is out having affairs, whether there is an exchange of fluid or not. And ladies, if you think your husband/boyfriend is not looking for this “action” when he goes to clubs with his friends, you are SERIOUSLY delusional. Unbelievably, my wife tried to claim that in a cumulative 50 or so hours of hard-core clubbing, NOT ONE man ever approached her, even to ask for a dance. After reading all of those posts, that lie is so incredibly incomprehensible I don’t even need to have seen it happen to prove the lie.
This behavior is so seemingly acceptable, that I’m starting to think that when my sl*t wife said she was going clubbing, she actually thought I knew this went on and that I was OK with it. And she just started to freak a little when she saw I had a problem with it, hence that whopper of an unbelievable lie.
If Facebook = The Devil, nightclubs are relationship Hell. AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GETS THIS?????
You can't dangle temptation in a marriage in any form. It isn't healthy and none of us are that strong. Being in a marriage unit means you no longer call all the shots without considering the others feelings in the matter. Great post.
Well, I've never done the club thing so I have absolutely "zero" knowledge first hand on what happens. I haven't read up on it either. BUT ... I do know human nature and I couldn't agree more with what mommy22 wrote above.
My only comment to you cody is to say that calling your wife names, regardless of how much you feel she deserves them isn't a way to generate wedded happiness or even common friendship. You may be angry, and it sounds as if it's rightfully so; but treating your wife to that type of verbal abuse to her face and now here isn't going to help you in any fashion.
Marriage isn't a war to be won, it's working together towards the same goal. Finding yourself "in the right" doesn't mean you'll find yourself with her.
Hey Cody, I understand your frustration, but it may be innocent as your wife indicated. I am married and I do go clubbing with the girls at least 6 times a year. During my time at the club I've only had one guy try to approach me and I kindly turned him down. There are a few that will send drinks to me via the bar tender but nothing more then that. The girls and I have a great time and I go home feeling confident that I didn't do anything to humiliate my husband or bring shame to our relationship.
So trust in your wife that it may be as innocent as she claims.
Here's one for all of those defenders of clubbing who say that your wife could meet someone at work, the supermarket or a restaurant at lunch, so you're a jealous infant for having a problem with clubs. This post comes from a different relationship website:
"Last night me and my friend went clubbing, i ended up meeting this guy who brought me a few drinks and we ended up dancing, then he was grinding against me and was touching my chest, then he ended up fingering me in the corner of the club, and we proberly would of had sex if my friend didnt want to leave"
I've not seen a lot of that at my local Stop and Shop. Ladies, how do you know that's not your husband or boyfriend? You think this guy said: "bye hun, me and the boys are going to the club and I'm going to find a young girl and get to third base with her in the back of the dancehall."? No, the understanding was obvioulsy that the night was going to be some innocent flirting, at worst.
I'd like to think it wasn't my wife...
Sorry. I forgot a huge point of this post. Her concern had nothing to do with the fact that she was acting like this in a public place, but that the guy was married.
I want to confirm that your fears and concerns about your wife's clubbing are reasonable. There IS a chance of meeting someone "anywhere"; however, the chance of meeting someone and doing something inappropriate in a club is greater ONLY because of the emotional impact of the alcohol, the music, the closeness of the bodies, and of the general acceptance of entering a total stranger's "space" without overstepping boundaries is the prevalent attitude.
Having said that, there is the possibility that your wife IS innocent.
IMO, your wife should be concerned with YOUR feelings and fears surrounding her going out clubbing. THIS imo, is the crux of the problem, NOT the clubbing itself.
With love for another person comes the natural concern for the other person's well-being, their happiness, their comfort. She has OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY decided to ignore this and defend her actions because "she is doing NO wrong" at the club. That's all fine, but she is doing harm to you by ignoring and belittling your feelings on this topic and THAT is the "wrong" she is doing that she cannot argue or deny.
Yes, you could work on gaining confidence in her innocence; however, imo, you shouldn't have to. This isn't something she NEEDS, must have to survive, or that should be a priority for her above caring for your feelings.
That is the point I believe I would focus on when talking calmly to her. That her lack of concern for your feelings in this matter hurts you. In the end, it doesn't matter how innocent or guilty she is because by her very actions she is hurting you. There is no arguing the point that you hurt.
I'm sorry and I can understand how much pain and anger you must feel. I know I would too. Each one of us wants our feelings to count to those we love and you're NOT getting that from your wife.
Wow! I wonder what type of clubs those people in those forums were referring to?
I'm a single woman, and I've been going to clubs for years. I am not going to say that people don't grind with others while dancing, or that making out doesn't occur (I've done it myself) but you've kind of made it sound like some sort of sex show.
My single girlfriends and I go clubbing quite often. We do get approached by men. Most offer to buy drinks, and would like a chat. All you have to say is , "No thanks"- if you're not interested, and the guy will disappear.
Again, I'm not sure what type of clubs your wife has been going to, and I am sure that sexual activity CAN occur, but the club staff is pretty strict about the way people are conducting themselves. I have been in clubs where couples have been asked to leave due to too much PDA.
Most women (especially attached ones) go with clubs with girlfriends to release steam, get drunk, and dance. My married friends never pick up or dance with men while they're there. As a matter of fact, they have a much better time when their husbands go with. The husbands may not always like the club scene, but it can lead to 'after hour fun' for both of them.
Thanks for the continued input M22. Even though my tales of heartache pale in comparison to others on this forum, I continue to struggle with this.
No, I did not "catch" my wife in anything. But that was not necessarily the point of my post. If I caught her making out with someone in a club or leaving with them for god knows what, it takes the "legitimized" (if that's even a word) portion out of my thread and throws it to full blown infidelity. No excuses.
My point was that married women clubbing is a green light for infidelity should they so choose. And to add your earlier point, even if they weren't looking, temtation is dangled. Do I trust my wife? Of course. Did that wife mentioned in the above post, who's husband was rounding third with that tramp trust him? Probably, or she wouldn't have fallen for the "I'm going out with a beer with my friends at the club" line. He had a green light and he sailed through it. No way to "catch" him. Clubbing is a purely legitimate activity, right?
Yes, as a couple of the posters above, and others in earlier threads of mine have pointed out, people DO go to clubs just for the dancing. But I might add they are in a minority. If they did go to clubs just for the dancing, is there a greater chance of innapropriate behavior than if they chose to go to the movies? Of course. A MUCH greater chance? I'd say yes. Does a wife need to exchange fluids to be cheating? I don't know. I don't think my wife did. But IF she was going to flirt, dance with, an generally party 'till 2:00 in the morning with strange males, it's pretty darned cloe to certain definitions of cheating.
My wife was secretive about her nights out, claiming I'd get wierd when she said she was "going dancing". I say I got wierd because she was secretive. What came first, the chicken or the egg? The problem we have is purely related to clubbing. The same process that leads clubs to be "legitimized infidelity" is the same thing that leads it to legitimized "you can't do it anymore". At least not without a LOT more communication, ground-rule setting and control that my wife rejected.
Thank you M22. Your posts are helping me tremendously.
My wife and I are working through this. Your opinions on the differences of how male vs. female brains are hardwired will help in future talks.
I have not said harsh things to my wife. I get that out of my system via the anonymity of the internet. There is nothing in my wife's personality and history for me to believe she has the propensity for physical infidelity, particularly resulting from something as skanky as a nightclub hookup. She never showers before crawling into bed at 2:30, yet never smells of mens cologne either (and with the cheap cologne that surely is bought by the gallon by men in these places...).
Yes, it may have been "just dancing". But knowing the woman she has been partying with (her "wingman" as a previous poster so eloquently put it), and the nature of "interpersonal relationships" at these places, my fears are otherwise. As much as I will draw the ire of those on this site suffering from true betrayal, my problem is that I just can't get the picture out of my mind of my wife sneaking off to drink with, flirt with, and party with strange me. She doesn't do that with me. I'm Mr. "Old Reliable" at home.
cody - you are indeed a jealous husband, no doubt. I am a married woman myself and go clubbing occasionally - I love dancing and music - and before I met my husband I've been going out regularly - and never went to bed with a guy from a club. I understand he doesn't enjoy dancing or share the same taste in music so I don't force him to go. He understands we are different and enjoy different things so he lets me have my fun while he's fishing or something he enjoys doing and I don't. Marriage is a lot about trust - I don't like your attitude towards your wife. I think if she wants to cheat on you she will do it anyplace - I have a strong belief about not cheating and I always make sure there are no wrong signals between myself and other men. I go out to dance and laugh, and yes get drunk and relax sometimes, It feels good to look pretty again and dress up (something my husband doesn't appreciate and takes for granted)... So, I think your problem is you don't trust your wife - not what she might be doing. She is most probably like myself just having a fun night out dancing. The less supportive you are of her needs the more likely is she going to cheat.
Thanks for your input Nikon. And thanks for judging me negatively against your more understanding husband. I need a benchmark against which to judge my emotional infancy.
Yes I am jealous when it comes to my wife's clubbing, I'm sorry to say. But of course, it's the more enlightened husbands like yours that get a wife that goes out dancing "occasionally", while the Neanderthals like me have to endure one who was on pace for almost 20 excursions this year (she started late, what with breast-feeding our youngest earlier in the year and all). And I'll bet your husband, who doesn't even NEED TO know where you are going and when you plan to get home, actual HAS that information before you leave. And although you'd be happy to share some highlights of your night, he doesn't even want to hear a little about your night out, while infants like me are cut off with "you know, we went to the usual place and we DANCED, what else would we do?" and it is understood there will be no more questions. And he gets a wife, I'll bet, who goes out with a group of girls, while jealous infants like me get a wife who goes out ONLY with her hot, married friend EVERY time. Of course I'D get the wife who's situation would look more like a "partners in crime" setup than a ladies night out. Funny how it has to work that way.
But of course it's not all bad. My wife has figured out how to go clubbing for 5 hours without spending A DIME. Bless her little heart. Don't know how she does that, but she's saving the family some money.
The best part about being your more enlightened husband, surely, is that if an uncharacteristic sliver of jealousy did creep in about the fact that you're not dancing at church social, but a meat market where every man in the place wanted to **** you, you are AWESOME enough to talk it out with him instead of accusing him of being a jealous creatin that can't handle his wife going out, then slamming a door in his face and ending the conversation.
Jealous cretins like me envy awesome, TOTALLY together dudes like him.
cody, i was actually trying to help here - i don't know what you were trying to achieve with this reply. My husband is far from perfect but one thing he is not is jealous (he also doesn't use offending words to describe me) and he understands i love going out (while he prefers to stay at home) - And yes, I do pay for my own drinks so he knows I am not taking advantage of horny men in the clubs... etc. But there is one thing you are wrong about - I actually have mostly male friends and my husband never showed any disagreement with that. I was always a bit of a tomboy (and he likes that about me) and I always preferred male over female friends. He even enjoys this as we find it easier to share friends and do stuff together - he'd let me spend a night over at a friends house no question asked. He knows I don't cheat and I would rather leave him than cheat. I am one of those people who really appreciate honesty and I expect nothing less from myself. Back to your wife... Do you think she'd really pop out 2 kids of yours and go cheat on you with some horny stranger? She most probably loves you but needs some time of her own, to release herself of the motherhood stress for one night and feel young again. Talk more, assume less. Maybe let her do it, be understanding and maybe she'll actually feel less needy to run from home so often.
Your husband may not be jealous and it sounds as if he has reason to NOT be jealous; however, in defense of Cody I'll say the following:
Cody's wife has a lack of concern for his feelings regarding the clubbing. He has stated that he does NOT use these vulgar or offensive words when talking to her about it. She REFUSES to discuss it and dismisses his feelings without remorse for doing so.
Now, I've said it before and I'll repeat it. IMO, the crux of the matter isn't the clubbing itself but her lack of concern for his feelings. With love comes the normal concern for the other's well-being and happiness. She is bypassing all of that for her own pleasure and wants. From her lack of concern, his jealousy grows in proportion to her blatant disregard for his feelings.
Telling him to just let go of his jealousy, does not help. Telling him that because YOU are innocent and your husband doesn't mind, doesn't reassure him in anyway about his own wife. His wife needs to sit down with him, just as you did, and explain what is going on. Express concern for his feelings AND acknowledge that it "looks" bad that it's always just the two friends, they don't spend ANY cash, AND agree that she will let him know where she will be and when he can expect her. That is common courtesy. Again all my opinion.