lastinline

Is it the norm for the spouse who had the affair to feel uncomfortable with any sort of physical contact with the spouse who did not? I am not speaking of sex necessarily, I am also talking about hugging or even holding hands.

Physical contact is hugely important to me. Touch is the primary way I receive love, and she is well aware of this. I equate this refusal with cruelty if not outright abuse. Morally, I am incapable of adultery, so going outside my marriage is not an option. She knows this, and for some perverted reason, perceives this decency as weakness.

I met my wife when I was a teenager, and I've only been with her. She had a "history" before me, and has always been a little more cavalier with her affection. Until recently though, she had always remained faithful.

It was obvious when things began, as I am generally a very perceptive man. I could forgive a single transgression, but I cannot wrap myself around serial adultery. She of course denies everything despite, a neighbors wife coming to my clinic and telling me of my wife's affair with her husband, and various intercepted e-mails.

I feel I am being pressed to file for divorce, so she can declare to her legions of friends that it was I, her arrogant and workaholic husband, that left the union. I personally could care less what her friends think. My concerns are about how my family and my God view me, nothing more.

She has said all of the typical "BS" about how she cares about me, and that I'm a good person. To me this is the verbal equivalent of "she has a nice personality". I am tired of being rejected by my wife, especially when she has obviously accepted others.

What really pisses me off, is I have seen these men. Physically and mentally they aren't impressive. I would have hoped she would at least have tried to "trade up". Instead she went slumming. Is it normal for women to "cheat down"? I know it's attention she was seeking, but WTF woman have some dignity.

I am a martial artist, and have been for years. I find the vigorous training cathartic and it helps clear my mind so I can perform better in a stressful profession. In my opinion, it hurts less to be kicked in the head than it does to be "pushed away" from my wife. I am so conflicted now because part of me views her as sullied and repulsive. I know she senses this. She too is perceptive.

I am a very good looking man. I am very physically fit. I am a professional. I make a low six figure salary. I have worked my @ss of for my family so we could have nice things and she could stay home. Yes, I work a lot, but it's the norm for my profession, and the price of success.

I am not rationalizing, I am just lost at what I missed. She even sarcastically calls me "perfect" when we fight. I guess this is supposed to get at "my perception of me", but I am the first to admit that I'm flawed. The big difference between us is that when I perceive a flaw, I strive to fix it, she just embraces her imperfections.

I know I'm just rambling at this point, and I know I need to move on with my life. However, she is the first person that I loved, and I am still enamored with the person that she was. Occasionally, I still see glimpses of that person, and they are more precious to me than diamonds.

For anyone reading this post that has been cheated on, can you relate to any of the above? For anyone reading this post who has cheated on their spouse, from the limited information you've been given, where was I culpable in this? Finally, how does one resolve the trust issues to be able to move forward into a new relationship with some level of emotional health? LIL

bestblu1

Has she expressed true remorse for what she has done? And if so, have you told her that you forgive her? Have you expressed your true feelings for her and she for you? In other words have you both or either of you truly attempted to be humble about your mistakes and talked about your deepest feelings for each other? Because it sounds like, from your post, that you are both still angry with each other and are not trying to understand what caused this as much as you are trying to justify your positions.

Sven

You're experience is very close to mine.

My wife absolutely DID NOT END the affair until I got a lawyer.

I know what you feel about not wanting to be the 'fall guy' for pulling out the D-lawyer...but really it's not that way. She's cheating on YOU, that's why you need the lawyer.

My wife hit a massive stone wall of reality that she either stopped, or was on the receiving end of a divorce. That brought her around over a year ago and we've been rebuilding since.

You should consider doing the same thing.

__________________
My story: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-...roduction.html

MEM11363

She perceived the other men as finding her enchanting. Her attraction was based on how they felt about HER, not what she thought of them.

The girl from highschool I have the most intensely positive sexual memories of was not the prettiest girl I dated. She was a bit above average but she was REALLY into me. Really found me hot.

Is it perhaps that your wife knows she has let you down, knows that you have high standards and somehow feels "less then" when around you?

I would truly lose my mind without touch. Touch is most of how I feel love and absolutely not just sex. Spooning to me is joy.
And I like alternating being the spooner/spoonee since that way you get both sides.

lastinline

No bestblu1, she hasn't expressed any remorse. This has made it impossible for me to forgive her. She is not a rational woman. She does not logically answer queries point for point, and you are dead on right; we are both angry with one another.

I have apologized as recently as Sunday for my failures to her as a husband. However, she views concession as weakness and admission as justification. In my opinion, one cannot justify adultery, but one can forgive it if the other asking forgiveness is truly contrite of heart. She is not. I cannot. The was continues. LIL

bestblu1

I am a Christian. My wife is a Christian. We have been married for 35 years.

She denied her affair for 12 years. As long as I was not able to provide proof, I could not get her to fess up. If you want to save your marriage, I recommend that you investigate. It feels kind of creepy to check up on your wife's email records, phone records, etc. I felt sneaky and almost dirty, but I finally found out that she was involved with this guy long term, by checking her cell phone records online. I printed out the phone records and highlighted all the calls and text to and from "him". I gave her a copy. I then told her one morning before leaving for work that when I got home that night she would have to tell me everything. If she would tell me everything, I promised to try to work things out and I would not leave. If she would not tell me everything but I found out weeks or months later (and I promised her I would find out), then it would be over for good. I was very serious and she knew it. She had all day to think about it.

That night when I got home, she told me everything. It was extremely hard for both of us, but we have since overcome the pain and are successfully working things out.

This approach may or may not work for everyone but it worked for us. The key for us is that we both became very humble and confessed our faults and forgave each other. I, like you, was a workaholic. It damaged our relationship tremendously. I had to accept the fact that my marriage was more important to me than my success. I scaled down my time at the office, and the funny thing is, I have been more successful as a result of it because my time is more wisely appropriated when I am working.

If you want to read my whole story (and it's a long one), you can read the thread I started at "Long Term Marriage Success" and then go to the thread "How We Overcame Adultery".

good luck

Beninyourshoes

I would guess that from reading your post that you are a Proud person, and a bit of a perfectionist. Don't take that the wrong way, I have some of those tendencies as well. As far as getting a divorce and having forgiveness, adultery is one of the grounds that allows divorce in the Bible. Of course it is better if you can work things out.

What are the possibilities that she doesn't feel she can please you but she looks for other outlets to feel acceptance, appreciation, desirable. I for one played a similar roll as you described. I was dragging in the six figure income, had all the nice stuff, working 90 hrs a week, everything was perfect, Right. Wrong, I found out in counseling that my wife could care less about the money, the house, the cars, She just wanted a husband around to spend some time with her. It's been said before, "if your not at home taking care of business, someone else will."

Now I work 50hrs a week not bringing in the big $$$'s, spend lots of time with the wife and kids. She's happy, the kids are happy, no one is taking care of my wife for me now. The only problem, now my ego is bruised a little and I feel less than I should but I am trying to make things work and I have accepted part of the blame for the family problems.

One other thing, she probably is not real touchy feely right now because she is probably ashamed of her actions. I know my wife once she came back down to Earth and started thinking straight again, could not believe the things she had done and how many problems she created by not communicating with me about how she felt and the resentment she had towards me working all the time. I have learned or figured out that success and happiness is not measured up the same for Men and Woman.

I felt like my success was measured by how much money I could bring home. Not necessarily the same for a women.

Good luck, be strong and get some counceling. You might be surprised what you find out about yourself.

COFLgirl

Hi LIL, I've read quite a bit of your story here...I'm sorry for the pain you are going through. It hurts like h*ll, doesn't it?

I was also the spouse who was cheated on and I can relate to some of what you write here. Let me take a stab, as a woman, at what your wife is feeling/doing. Even though I didn't cheat in my marriage, women understand each other differently than men can understand women (no big surprise there, huh?)

My guess is that it is guilt and shame that is causing your wife to pull away from you. Her comments about you being 'perfect', her refusal to hold hands or have physical contact, etc, says to me that she is a bad place with her own self-perception. So, when she sees you being 'perfect' in her mind, it just adds to her self-doubt. This feeling of self-doubt is also apparent in the 'trading down' in her choice of affair partners. It's sickening, isn't it? Here it is your wife with the problem and it just adds insult to injury that she has degraded your marriage, your feelings and your love for her in such a way.

My guess is your wife is deeply insecure. In all my reading about infidelity, the causes of it, what makes someone cheat on their spouse, it seems a lot of the time it comes down to some type of insecurity. I saw it my own situation with my H; I learned a lot about my H in the process of recovering from infidelity. And no, not that he could and did cheat on me...but I learned a lot more about him, as a person. What I learned gave me the strength to extend another chance.

LIL, your wife must figure out how to deal with her shortcomings and insecurities. This is something she has to figure out her own...you know, the old saying, 'you can't really love someone else if you don't love yourself'. It's trite but true. Your wife is damaged somehow...perhaps something in her past has left old wounds. I bet if you think on it, you might be able to figure out what it might be.

In time, your wife might be willing to let you help her with her feelings of inadequacy to some extent, but it really must come from her. Until she sees this, there is little you can do. Have either of you considered IC?

I'm not sure any of this helps, LIL. But you are to be commended for hanging in there and wanting to keep your marriage, despite all obstacles. Good luck to you!

iwillsurvive

I will maybe give you a different perspective on this. My husband cheated on my with his "first"- his high school girlfriend. He has always been enamored with the person she was, the person he first fell for. So when she came back into his life and said all the right things to him, he fell hard and fast and destroyed our marriage and family in the process.

She was definitely a "trade down" per say. She is skanky white trash. She has several kids from several men, ended her own marriage because her husband cheated, but then turned around and doesn't mind being the mistress to a married man! What kind of person does that?

My husband did actually confess the affair, but then lied and lied and lied about cutting off contact with her. He just couldn't let go of whatever she was in his mind. And in the end it turns out she just used him. But he still has these lingering "feelings" of who she was and for some reason still has this hold on his heart. Even now, he realizes that she isn't that person and isn't good for him, but there's still that memory that he's drawn to. It frightens me to no end- because she's out of our life now, but what happens if she walks back in . . .

It sounds like you are in a similar situation with your wife. You have an image of who she was, who you first fell in love with, and you can't let go of that, even though that's not who she is anymore. And you probably aren't the same person either- that's part of life, we all change. But if you take a good, hard look at who she is now- is she really the person you want to be with? Is she worth the heartache and pain? If she is showing no remorse, not wanting to make things better, when she's the one that committed the cheating, you need to think long and hard if you are willing to live the rest of your life with a person who is punishing you, even though she did wrong.

You know her best. But I do think Sven is right in that she needs to know you are serious. She needs to know that you are not ok with a marriage like this. And if she isn't happy, and doesn't want to right her wrongs, then she needs to leave. She may be trying to "force" you to file for divorce, but in my mind, the cheating spouse should be the one to leave (unless the other wants to)- once they step outside the marriage, they lose the privilege of getting to claim what they "want". She's been selfish, now it's your turn to be. You need to let her know what you want. Offer to go to counseling or do whatever it takes to fix it, but do not let her treat you like a doormat and have you keep doing the apologizing. It's not wrong to admit what you can do better- but it needs to be a two-way street. She also needs to be willing to change. Otherwise it will never work.

lastinline

Bestblu1, I don't need to investigate. The woman that originally came to my clinic offered all of the phone records of the "blessed event" to me. It just caught me so off guard at the time, that my first reaction was denial.

They have since divorced as a couple, so I suspect there was "merit" in her claim. I just didn't have the intestinal fortitude to take and examine her "evidence" at the time. I still don't know if I do, "but I know what I know if you know what I mean", and that's enough. The last I think was a lyric from a Cheryl Crow song.

I'll take your advice and read your thread Sir. It just sucks to be here. In so many ways my life has "came together", and now in so many ways it has "came apart". LIL

lastinline

I here what your saying beninyourshoes about your wife not caring about status or money. However, my wife created the monster she now has. It was her that suggested I become what I am, and stop being what I had always wanted to be. It was her direction that motivated me to excell in school and push myself onward. You can't exactly "make your own hours" and have a successful medical practice, at least not in the beginning.

You are right about the time thing though. It has been one of her primary complaints, especially in the last three years. She probably is lonely, I sure the hell am. She is just so friggin inconsistent. One one hand she tells me to go out and "do stuff" with other Dr.s. Make friends. Develop outside interests. Then on the other hand when I actually do something outside, like my martial arts, she laments how I can make time for that and not some other thing.

In short, she says a lot of things she doesn't really mean. I think she does this so when she "plays back the tapes" she can be on record as having supported the "right side". However, I contend it is what a person does and not necessarily what they say that carries the most weight in life. She is a "sayer". I am a "doer". This has been the subject of an argument or two over the years. LIL

lastinline

Thank you iwillsurvive. I have never been a Gloria Gaynor fan, but I really appreciated your post. It hit very close to home. I agree, your husband and myself are very similar in our attraction to "our first". We may be heading at it from different directions, but the end product is the same, that being unhealthy behavior.

For whatever reason I'm "set on her" because she's my first even though as you've aptly stated, "she's not that person anymore". I'm in love with a memory more than anything, but it was a very beautiful memory. I guess in a way it still is, but as you've stated the world moves on and people change. I guess I need to move on as well. LIL

Initfortheduration

First off, you need to cut her off financially. She needs to understand what the consequences of her actions are. She will have to learn a different lifestyle if you divorce her. She seems very hard hearted.

lastinline

IIFTD, the problem is the marriage is dead, but our household remains intact. It just isn't practical to "cut her off financially" because at this point she's basically functioning as my nanny. With my career, I can't watch my younger kids during the day, or prepare dinner for them etc. Most nights, I'm not even home until after 7:00pm.

While she is a crappy wife, she is a decent enough mother, so for now out of necessity alone she stays. She recently has been non-committal about couples therapy and knowing whether or not she "wants to save our marriage". I cannot stand her friggin vasillations so I basically told her "F-it, if you can't decide, I'll decide for you. I want a divorce."

I know she feels guilty as hell, but she won't apologize because she's convinced that if she comes completely clean she'll be left "out in the cold." The reality is because she's showing no remorse, I can't forgive her, and it's forcing me to divorce. For the record, I do not suspect she is currently engaged in any sort of adulterous activity and she has tried to be transparent as of late.

Late howerver is the operative word, as in it's too late, but because of the kids I'll file after Christmas, and put our house on the market in the spring. Come early summer when it sells, I'll finalize the divorce and go from there. Cheaters suck. I'm going to TKD practice and breaking something. LIL

manchild

In my estimation people like you describe your wife to be don't percieve your decency as weakness, quite the opposite, they fully understand and appreciate your grace and self discipline, their problem is that they know they don't have and will never have what you have and it bothers the heck out of them so in order to deal with it they have to marginalize the positives they see in others in order to make themselves feel better about their shortcomings

Ask yourself this, if she is doing this to you then she is probably doing this to others in her world view....does (now or in the past) she trash talk other people in your life in your social circle?

classic passive aggressive behavior......engaging in an affair to force the situation to a crisis where divorce is the only outcome ... call her out on this.... tell her she is acting in a passive aggressive manner..... people who engage in this type of behavior dont' like it when you skip a step and speak to the behavior (the passive aggressiveness) and its tactics as opposed to the transgression itself (the affair)

her legions of friends are nothing to you, dismiss this though it seems you have already....good job


of course the guys are scum bags....what does this tell you about her own self image.....she knows you are far far superior to her......she's spiraling down.....don't let her take you or your self image with her

dude get over it....we all want what we cannot have.... she is the perfect example .... in your mind you want control of the situation, you have set her up in a nice home with nice things with abundant means.... in your mind she should be satisfied... you feel you have done the things to deserve a modicum of control as you have done your part ....... the part you don't get is that you cannot control someone who is as narcissistic as she appears to be.... it is a neuroisis a mental illness which you cannot control....... sad to say you need to move on