Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Dealing with Grief and Loss The grieving process is difficult. When we lose someone close to us, we go through many different emotions.

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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 11:49 PM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

Death has a way of making sinners into saints, at least in the eyes of some of those that are left behind.


Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-29-2015, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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I love my family. My wife and my children are my everything. I feel disrespected by the way shes acting towards her ex. I feel like all of a sudden she is proud of the fact he is our daughters father while minimizing the role I play.
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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:05 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

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I love my family. My wife and my children are my everything. I feel disrespected by the way shes acting towards her ex. I feel like all of a sudden she is proud of the fact he is our daughters father while minimizing the role I play.
How clearly have you communicated this to her?

My wife is currently dealing w/ a similar issue, though sort of "in reverse", if you will. Her father passed away recently. The guy could be -- and, more often that not, to be honest, was -- a real bastard, and she's having a hard time dealing w/ the fact that much of her family (mostly her aunts, along w/ some of her half-siblings and cousins, HIS friends, and -- to a lesser degree -- her mother) is all too ready to overlook all of that.

As she's the oldest of his seven children, she's had a front-row seat to ALL of it for much of her life, and she's really struggling w/ the dichotomy.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:15 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

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How clearly have you communicated this to her?

My wife is currently dealing w/ a similar issue, though sort of "in reverse", if you will. Her father passed away recently. The guy could be -- and, more often that not, to be honest, was -- a real bastard, and she's having a hard time dealing w/ the fact that much of her family (mostly her aunts, along w/ some of her half-siblings and cousins, HIS friends, and -- to a lesser degree -- her mother) is all too ready to overlook all of that.

As she's the oldest of his seven children, she's had a front-row seat to ALL of it for much of her life, and she's really struggling w/ the dichotomy.
FOO issues really suck
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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:17 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

Has the DNA test been done yet?

Does your wife know whether or not the DNA test will help establish paternity so that your daughter can get benefits?
I do not recall if you have adopted your daughter. That might make a difference in your right to refuse her from seeing her birth-family.

In the future, if the other guy comes up, don't talk about him as the father/dad. He's a birth-father (aka sperm donor). Call him her birth-father (or bio-dad). Make that distinction. It's insulting to your daughter to have her now being told to pretend that he was anything else to her.


It's time for your wife to move away from all this.

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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:19 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

I'll pipe in here.

My mother beat me when I was a child, and I mean she grabbed a broomstick and hit me with it until SHE was tired. I was like 12 when it started.

My dad is an alcoholic who goes between being a dry drunk and being a case-a-day man. He cheated on my mom to marry his affair partner. He did accounting for a living and when exH and I owned a restaurant, I asked him to keep our books--he embezzled from us.

So my relationships with my parents is "strained" at best. I'm not hostile toward them (I won't give them the satisfaction) but I also don't invite them to the house for tea every afternoon either (giggle). And yet when my father dies, I will mourn. When my mother dies, I will mourn.

I will mourn that he wasn't a nurturing man to me--that I was a child and he didn't protect me. I will mourn that she was too afraid to face her demons rather than admit she needed help to protect me. I will mourn that people who were supposed to "love" me treated me so hurtfully. I will mourn that they couldn't see that I needed them to rise up and face themselves FOR ME. I will mourn that the potential for a better relationship died with them. I will MOURN.

In the same way, your wife is mourning....not the man he actually was (the jerk who threw her and their child into the street), but the potential. Parts of her wanted him to be a good dad. Parts of her wanted him to see his daughter and melt like you did. Parts of her saw the good in him and hoped/wished/prayed that the good would win. And she is mourning the loss of ALL THAT. She's mourning the loss of something that didn't exist but she wished it did: him as the better man she wished he was! It's like she is mourning losing the illusion.

Does that make sense? He was an @$$ and she knows that. You show your love and commitment to her and her child DAILY just by being there! But she is mourning losing the illusion that maybe "one day" he's love his little girl. Losing an illusion...a wish...that hope... is hard and very painful.


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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 12:26 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

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I'll pipe in here.

My mother beat me when I was a child, and I mean she grabbed a broomstick and hit me with it until SHE was tired. I was like 12 when it started.

My dad is an alcoholic who goes between being a dry drunk and being a case-a-day man. He cheated on my mom to marry his affair partner. He did accounting for a living and when exH and I owned a restaurant, I asked him to keep our books--he embezzled from us.

So my relationships with my parents is "strained" at best. I'm not hostile toward them (I won't give them the satisfaction) but I also don't invite them to the house for tea every afternoon either (giggle). And yet when my father dies, I will mourn. When my mother dies, I will mourn.

I will mourn that he wasn't a nurturing man to me--that I was a child and he didn't protect me. I will mourn that she was too afraid to face her demons rather than admit she needed help to protect me. I will mourn that people who were supposed to "love" me treated me so hurtfully. I will mourn that they couldn't see that I needed them to rise up and face themselves FOR ME. I will mourn that the potential for a better relationship died with them. I will MOURN.

In the same way, your wife is mourning....not the man he actually was (the jerk who threw her and their child into the street), but the potential. Parts of her wanted him to be a good dad. Parts of her wanted him to see his daughter and melt like you did. Parts of her saw the good in him and hoped/wished/prayed that the good would win. And she is mourning the loss of ALL THAT. She's mourning the loss of something that didn't exist but she wished it did: him as the better man she wished he was! It's like she is mourning losing the illusion.

Does that make sense? He was an @$$ and she knows that. You show your love and commitment to her and her child DAILY just by being there! But she is mourning losing the illusion that maybe "one day" he's love his little girl. Losing an illusion...a wish...that hope... is hard and very painful.
Spot on
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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 01:54 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

I disagree.

I say pull way back. There is supporting the one you love, and then there is letting yourself get trampled on. She's not going to sway from the direction she is going. Don't make anymore long term plans with her. Start living for yourself.

I don't trust this woman. The more you describe her the more immature, selfish and narcissistic she comes across. She seems to like drama, she wants to be the center of attention, she is going to make her ex's family sit up and take notice of her come hell or high water. It seems like it is all more about her than her ex. I think the reason your family is getting bent out of shape is because they see things for what they really are. You are being exploited and they are trying to show you that.

You need to stop now and stay out of her business with this. You are becoming obsessed with it and it makes you look weak. Read Glover's No More Mr. nice Guy and apply its principles. Detach. I see some codependent traits in you and it might benefit you to get some counseling for it.
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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 05:24 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

Dovetailing Bandit here, it seems that you are annoyd that the CAD gets revered in death while the good thigs that you have done have gone unnoticed.

You're feeling it already. So you need to let her know that there is a certain amount of time that she can grieve this guy and then she needs to quit. Or else she will always see you as second choice to the CAD.

and this:
Quote:
Actually giving her more attention then I give my own two.
Why are you treating this man's baby better than you treat your own.
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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No, I have not adopted her as of yet. Let me clarify my statement about treating our daughter better than my own two children. My wife's daughter receives a significant more portion of my time because we have her full-time and I only have my two kids every other weekend. I understand my wife wants this family to be part of my daughters life. Her rationale is they signed the DNA test. Yes it came back to be his. She said they are grieving their brother and want to hang onto our daughter as the only piece of him left. I can sympathize. But, my first priority is my family. Our daughter spoke pretty clearly how she felt. Why is it necessary to bring them into our daughters life now? They have young kids who know her dad and U.S. dead and may know he killed himself. That's not something I want our daughter to hear. I feel like my wife is pushing this. I want my wife to wake up and acknowledge who has been there the past three years raising our daughter. I want my wife to speak up and tell these people why our daughter may rememble her birth father, she has a Dad and that Dad is me. I want her to be protective of that, not these peoples feelings or whatever she is hanging onto.

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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 08:03 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

Letterman,
I wrote my post some time ago and I am sorry that things still haven't gotten any better. I was kind of afraid of that. When I wrote earlier I referred to your wife as an "alpha Widow". Literally. Here is what I meant in detail.
Rollo Tomassi, of Rational Male, laid out a concept of an "alpha widow". This is a woman who sleeps with alphas in her 20s and, as a result, refuses to "compromise" for a beta male later on (or does so, grudgingly). This is true even in the case (and is mostly the case) where the alpha male discards the woman unceremoniously after he has his way with her. She still holds him above all others whatever his poor behavior and pines over him, sometimes for decades.
His death was a trigger for her for sure but I suspect this is what was beneath the surface all along. The death just brought it out in the open. Your exemplary behaviors which I and others on this board find good and decent just reminded her your "betaness" as compared to the dead alpha. Especially highlighted by the fact that you are willing to support and raise the alpha's child. You would think she would be grateful. And maybe she appeared to be on the outside but on a subconscious level I think she believed it to be an open acknowledgement by you of your inferiority. I know this is harsh. I know it sounds very primitive. And I hate saying but it just seems so true in your case that I think it important that you understand what you are dealing with so you can deal with her with eyes wide open.
Sorry, but I don't know if its fixable or even if you should try and fix it. I would start thinking about all my options.
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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 08:37 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

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Letterman,
I wrote my post some time ago and I am sorry that things still haven't gotten any better. I was kind of afraid of that. When I wrote earlier I referred to your wife as an "alpha Widow". Literally. Here is what I meant in detail.
Rollo Tomassi, of Rational Male, laid out a concept of an "alpha widow". This is a woman who sleeps with alphas in her 20s and, as a result, refuses to "compromise" for a beta male later on (or does so, grudgingly). This is true even in the case (and is mostly the case) where the alpha male discards the woman unceremoniously after he has his way with her. She still holds him above all others whatever his poor behavior and pines over him, sometimes for decades.
His death was a trigger for her for sure but I suspect this is what was beneath the surface all along. The death just brought it out in the open. Your exemplary behaviors which I and others on this board find good and decent just reminded her your "betaness" as compared to the dead alpha. Especially highlighted by the fact that you are willing to support and raise the alpha's child. You would think she would be grateful. And maybe she appeared to be on the outside but on a subconscious level I think she believed it to be an open acknowledgement by you of your inferiority. I know this is harsh. I know it sounds very primitive. And I hate saying but it just seems so true in your case that I think it important that you understand what you are dealing with so you can deal with her with eyes wide open.
Sorry, but I don't know if its fixable or even if you should try and fix it. I would start thinking about all my options.

Google "women and the limbic/reptilian brain"
biology has a role in this.
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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 09:49 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

I think you are being disrespected. Big time.
I know you love your wife and kids but I would seriously rethink staying in this marriage, at least the way it is. Your wife is involved in a little fantasy with ex's family and he has been elevated to saint status as is so often the case with the dead.

It's possible she'll come out of it, especially if for some reason his family cuts her off, but the baby comment directed towards you is very telling. What's also telling is that she insisted you not go to the funeral.

You are not part of her little fantasy life, your are good for support as it suits her. I would really think about whether this is how you want to live your life.
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 11:28 AM
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Re: Wife who is grieving over ex who killed himself

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No, I have not adopted her as of yet. Let me clarify my statement about treating our daughter better than my own two children. My wife's daughter receives a significant more portion of my time because we have her full-time and I only have my two kids every other weekend. I understand my wife wants this family to be part of my daughters life. Her rationale is they signed the DNA test. Yes it came back to be his. She said they are grieving their brother and want to hang onto our daughter as the only piece of him left. I can sympathize. But, my first priority is my family. Our daughter spoke pretty clearly how she felt. Why is it necessary to bring them into our daughters life now? They have young kids who know her dad and U.S. dead and may know he killed himself. That's not something I want our daughter to hear. I feel like my wife is pushing this. I want my wife to wake up and acknowledge who has been there the past three years raising our daughter. I want my wife to speak up and tell these people why our daughter may rememble her birth father, she has a Dad and that Dad is me. I want her to be protective of that, not these peoples feelings or whatever she is hanging onto.
You are going to have to establish boundaries and give yourself a date whether it be 2 weeks or 2 months of how long you are going to put up with this.
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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-30-2015, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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How do u establish boundaries without being accused of being controlling or jealous of a deadman or insecure?
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