Loss of a child - long story - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Dealing with Grief and Loss The grieving process is difficult. When we lose someone close to us, we go through many different emotions.

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post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:04 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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She does acknowledge my pain. I've told her I don't believe she doesn't remember, but she swears she doesn't remember writing all those diary entries.
You think she is afraid to be truthful with you about it?


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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The bottom line is that you both dealt with your grief in your own way. And you both did not work together to over come the grief so you grew apart.

You say that you do not trust her now.

Does she trust you now? Have you asked her?
She says she does. She is in many ways a better wife now than she ever was before. It's my lack of belief and trust that is the problem for me - that this is all somehow an act to keep me from leaving.
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post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:06 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

best case scenario is that you are extremely charitable to one other.

nobody else but the two of you really understands the magnitude of your loss. you better than anyone can understand why she lost her mind temporarily.

this is potential for a powerful bond.
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post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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You think she is afraid to be truthful with you about it?
I don't know, either that or she doesn't want to upset her self image. She told me with a straight face that she never lies about anything. When I point her out in a small lie - as everyone does - she does mental gymnastics to show she hasn't lied. It's really strange.

For example, did you move my wash bag from the bathroom - she says no - then I discover she has moved it under the sink in the bathroom, but she doesn't think it relevant to tell me that. Or she will say she thought it was some other wash bag that I never use or some such ridiculous explanation.

The mountain of lies proved by the diary she explains by "I don't remember writing any of it".

Last edited by Good Guy; 08-16-2016 at 11:11 AM.
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post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:07 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Absolutely agree. We had some counselling of the style above, but my wife is a very good talker and can talk herself out of opening up easily. We need someone like Robin Williams character in Good Will Hunting, who will dig into the uncomfortable areas. The fact she says she doesn't remember is what kills me.
Yeah, actually, again, my superficial examination leads me to believe the sex is actually salvageable. . .so, big deal, she had a "thing" for this teacher, a huge emotional, physical crush but at least she never got the chance to act on it (thank God for that). My guess is you could deal with THAT if she acknowledged it. Even people in STABLE circumstances get crushes. . .so that's just being human. She certainly is withholding her sexuality from you though and Bullpucky she doesn't remember it (I see a smile at the corner of her face as she says that).

But truthfully, my alarm is going off with the credit card debt honestly. She is purposefully and willfully attempting to sabotage the partnership, the long term success.

That kind of behavior is "I don't give a F." She's cashing her chips out for crapola at the mall or salon or whatever.

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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post #21 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:13 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

separate out your need to be "right" and to get her to admit something.

you know what she did. the only question is whether you can be cool with it. getting her to admit it won't change the facts and is really not the main issue.

is it in the past? has she moved on?
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post #22 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Yeah, actually, again, my superficial examination leads me to believe the sex is actually salvageable. . .so, big deal, she had a "thing" for this teacher, a huge emotional, physical crush but at least she never got the chance to act on it (thank God for that). My guess is you could deal with THAT if she acknowledged it. Even people in STABLE circumstances get crushes. . .so that's just being human. She certainly is withholding her sexuality from you though and Bullpucky she doesn't remember it (I see a smile at the corner of her face as she says that).

But truthfully, my alarm is going off with the credit card debt honestly. She is purposefully and willfully attempting to sabotage the partnership, the long term success.

That kind of behavior is "I don't give a F." She's cashing her chips out for crapola at the mall or salon or whatever.
Actually I have to clarify a few points here.

1. Our sex life is now great, we have loads of sex now. Might be to do with the fact that I've really gotten into shape myself, I don't know.

2. Yeah I agree with you on the crush thing and the sex. No way she doesn't remember that. Also I had a crush myself and had an opportunity to act on it, and didn't, even though I was sorely tempted - and still am, if I'm honest about it. I told her that though, including who it was and what happened. Nothing like her obsession though.

3. The credit card debt is nearly all paid off. I insisted on monthly meetings and a plan to pay it off, and it's worked really well. So that's ancient history.
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post #23 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:17 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

Thing is, Good Guy, you lied to her, too. Have you ever acknowledged that to her?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #24 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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separate out your need to be "right" and to get her to admit something.

you know what she did. the only question is whether you can be cool with it. getting her to admit it won't change the facts and is really not the main issue.

is it in the past? has she moved on?
I'm OK with all of it - I get it and see completely why she would be attracted to this guy. What I'm not OK with is that she won't acknowledge it to me. It means I can't trust her and will never see the real her. That's the problem for me.
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post #25 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:23 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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1. Our sex life is now great, we have loads of sex now. Might be to do with the fact that I've really gotten into shape myself, I don't know.

2. Yeah I agree with you on the crush thing and the sex. No way she doesn't remember that. Also I had a crush myself and had an opportunity to act on it, and didn't, even though I was sorely tempted - and still am, if I'm honest about it. I told her that though, including who it was and what happened. Nothing like her obsession though.

3. The credit card debt is nearly all paid off. I insisted on monthly meetings and a plan to pay it off, and it's worked really well. So that's ancient history.
So why are we here?


And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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post #26 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Thing is, Good Guy, you lied to her, too. Have you ever acknowledged that to her?
How exactly did I lie to her? If you mean about saying I was over the death of my son, at the time I thought I was. I apologized to her many many times about it that I couldn't be there for her and that I thought I was over it.

Last edited by Good Guy; 08-16-2016 at 11:28 AM.
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post #27 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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So why are we here?
I'm OK with all of it - I get it and see completely why she would be attracted to this guy. What I'm not OK with is that she won't acknowledge it to me. It means I can't trust her and will never see the real her. That's the problem for me.
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post #28 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:40 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

You lied to her. You said you thought it would help. That was your justification.

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To try to deal with it, after a few weeks I said I was "over" our child's death (of course that was a load of horse manure - but I thought it would help).
I am pointing this out because I bet she has her reasons for doing what she has done, or is doing, too.

Trying to convict her, show her all the ways she is wrong, is not going to increase her trust, her willingness to be honest with you. Not in my opinion, anyway.

Honestly and openly admitting your own faults, including when you lie, could. It could make it safe for her to admit her imperfections, too.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #29 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:47 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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You lied to her. You said you thought it would help. That was your justification.



I am pointing this out because I bet she has her reasons for doing what she has done, or is doing, too.

Trying to convict her, show her all the ways she is wrong, is not going to increase her trust, her willingness to be honest with you. Not in my opinion, anyway.

Honestly and openly admitting your own faults, including when you lie, could. It could make it safe for her to admit her imperfections, too.
I'm sorry but I see two different things here.

A while after my son died I told my wife it was time to move on with our lives, to get back into a more "normal" life. I said that to try to move her out of the despair hole she was in. Was I ready to move on? Hell no. But I tried to be the strong one in the relationship.

Comparing OP's efforts in trying to help his wife cope with this loss to her thoughts of infidelity and apparently lying about it is just crazy.
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post #30 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 11:49 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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I'm OK with all of it - I get it and see completely why she would be attracted to this guy. What I'm not OK with is that she won't acknowledge it to me. It means I can't trust her and will never see the real her. That's the problem for me.
If you want to explore a tangential thread - go find under General Relationship thread my thread I did on "Anyone here Poly?" It's NOT about swinging.

It makes me think of it because well, you obviously have the fundamentals/foundations of your relationship down okay - solid finances, lots of sex. And while it's very easy for all of us to become distracted by the death of your child, well, it's NOT ABOUT YOUR CHILD. It's about you, as a couple. Not everything CAN nor SHOULD be about your loss/him/her.

You both haven't come to terms with the fact that on some level you are polyamorous - capable of loving, or at least having a crush on someone else. This is by YOUR own admission as well.

So. . .well. . .I am totally NOT suggesting you live some kind of "weird hippy lifestyle" but understanding how you are wired with YOUR crush and understanding how your wife is wired with hers, which you seem to get, and somehow figuring out TOGETHER how you want to act on it, or not act on it (usually not seems to be the way) would be therapeutic. She needs to come to terms with it and is probably having some amount of self-loathing in that she is wired this way.

This is assuming that everything as grand as you posted, and I have no reason to doubt you.

The enemy here appears to be shame.

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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