Loss of a child - long story - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
Dealing with Grief and Loss The grieving process is difficult. When we lose someone close to us, we go through many different emotions.

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post #31 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 12:50 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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I'm sorry but I see two different things here.

A while after my son died I told my wife it was time to move on with our lives, to get back into a more "normal" life. I said that to try to move her out of the despair hole she was in. Was I ready to move on? Hell no. But I tried to be the strong one in the relationship.

Comparing OP's efforts in trying to help his wife cope with this loss to her thoughts of infidelity and apparently lying about it is just crazy.
I don't think so. Neither of them was transparent with the other. She may think she is protecting him by not being truthful with him.

I think there is a lot of strength in just being open and honest, and doing whatever you can to keep yourself going. That example alone is very powerful.

I am sorry to hear of your loss, btw. So very sorry.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #32 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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You lied to her. You said you thought it would help. That was your justification.



I am pointing this out because I bet she has her reasons for doing what she has done, or is doing, too.

Trying to convict her, show her all the ways she is wrong, is not going to increase her trust, her willingness to be honest with you. Not in my opinion, anyway.

Honestly and openly admitting your own faults, including when you lie, could. It could make it safe for her to admit her imperfections, too.
I meant I thought it would make her see my position. I certainly didn't lie at the time. The horse manure comment was retrospective - I realized later it wasn't true, that's what I meant by that. At the time I believed it to be true. I'm not saying I never lied about anything to her - of course I have, and told her as much. I didn't lie about that though.

I told her I used at porn and what sort of porn I used. I told her about the other woman I had a crush on and what almost happened between us. I told her about any woman I had any interaction with (a few came on to me) during the course of our marriage. I told her to ask me anything and I would tell her honestly the truth, if she would be honest with me. The response : "I can't remember any of it".
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post #33 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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If you want to explore a tangential thread - go find under General Relationship thread my thread I did on "Anyone here Poly?" It's NOT about swinging.

It makes me think of it because well, you obviously have the fundamentals/foundations of your relationship down okay - solid finances, lots of sex. And while it's very easy for all of us to become distracted by the death of your child, well, it's NOT ABOUT YOUR CHILD. It's about you, as a couple. Not everything CAN nor SHOULD be about your loss/him/her.

You both haven't come to terms with the fact that on some level you are polyamorous - capable of loving, or at least having a crush on someone else. This is by YOUR own admission as well.

So. . .well. . .I am totally NOT suggesting you live some kind of "weird hippy lifestyle" but understanding how you are wired with YOUR crush and understanding how your wife is wired with hers, which you seem to get, and somehow figuring out TOGETHER how you want to act on it, or not act on it (usually not seems to be the way) would be therapeutic. She needs to come to terms with it and is probably having some amount of self-loathing in that she is wired this way.

This is assuming that everything as grand as you posted, and I have no reason to doubt you.

The enemy here appears to be shame.
You could have a point. I'm not ashamed though, but she quite possibly is. We did the whole mojo upgrade thing to get things back on track, and she was OK with some stuff (oral is fine, different positions, no anal - but I don't like that either !). Nothing with other people - I'm fine with that too. Roleplay was one I really wanted to do but "that's cheating" according to her.
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post #34 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 12:55 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

We have not gone through the death of our son, and I hope we never do. But I can tell you that just hearing the diagnosis the first time was traumatizing for each of us.

Dug cried. Not right away, but after a day or so. Maybe a half day. I had never seen him cry before. I was stunned, and terrified.

I, in turn, felt like I was living a nightmare. An absolute parental nightmare. And people I told had the nerve to cry, which made me feel like I needed to comfort them. Comfort them. Totally ****** up.

Bottom line, events like losing your child can take you to places, emotionally, that you never imagined you would go. Forgiveness, and compassion, and understanding, imo, are critical.

GG, have you read the book Hold Me Tight, by Sue Johnson?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #35 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 12:59 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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I meant I thought it would make her see my position. I certainly didn't lie at the time. The horse manure comment was retrospective - I realized later it wasn't true, that's what I meant by that. At the time I believed it to be true. I'm not saying I never lied about anything to her - of course I have, and told her as much. I didn't lie about that though.

I told her I used at porn and what sort of porn I used. I told her about the other woman I had a crush on and what almost happened between us. I told her about any woman I had any interaction with (a few came on to me) during the course of our marriage. I told her to ask me anything and I would tell her honestly the truth, if she would be honest with me. The response : "I can't remember any of it".
Why did you put a condition on it?

GG, I am not trying to be hard on you. I am just trying to help you see another side to all this.

Your wife may simply not be a truthful person. Or she may not be able to be truthful with you. Or she may be truthful in some areas and not in others.

I do think that people are more likely to be truthful if they do not fear the consequences of being truthful. If she is afraid to lose the marriage, then she is not going to be willing to be truthful unless you can assure her she has nothing to fear.

Can you honestly assure her of that?

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #36 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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We have not gone through the death of our son, and I hope we never do. But I can tell you that just hearing the diagnosis the first time was traumatizing for each of us.

Dug cried. Not right away, but after a day or so. Maybe a half day. I had never seen him cry before. I was stunned, and terrified.

I, in turn, felt like I was living a nightmare. An absolute parental nightmare. And people I told had the nerve to cry, which made me feel like I needed to comfort them. Comfort them. Totally ****** up.

Bottom line, events like losing your child can take you to places, emotionally, that you never imagined you would go. Forgiveness, and compassion, and understanding, imo, are critical.

GG, have you read the book Hold Me Tight, by Sue Johnson?
Been there jld - it is the worst possible experience imaginable. I would have gladly taken a bullet to the head if it could have saved my son's life - and still would.

I haven't read the book, I avoid any books / films about dying or sick children.
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post #37 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Why did you put a condition on it?

GG, I am not trying to be hard on you. I am just trying to help you see another side to all this.

Your wife may simply not be a truthful person. Or she may not be able to be truthful with you. Or she may be truthful in some areas and not in others.

I do think that people are more likely to be truthful if they do not fear the consequences of being truthful. If she is afraid to lose the marriage, then she is not going to be willing to be truthful unless you can assure her she has nothing to fear.

Can you honestly assure her of that?
I hoped by being brutally honest of my own free will about things she would have had no chance of finding out otherwise would have made her reciprocate. A covert contract I guess.

I can absolutely assure her that. In fact I've told her that it is the whole "I can't remember" thing that is putting our marriage in jeopardy.
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post #38 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

I'll put it another way - If I had been trying to bed a woman for 2 years at that time, wrote copious notes about it every day, and how much of a useless ***** she was, and how I fantasized about another woman when I was with her, would she believe me if I said "I can't remember" ?
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post #39 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

I do remember one big lie I told at the time - the biggest lie of my life.

When my son turned to me after a bout of radiotherapy and said "Dad, am I going to die ?" and I said "No". He had asked mum first but didn't trust her to tell him the truth.
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post #40 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:13 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Been there jld - it is the worst possible experience imaginable. I would have gladly taken a bullet to the head if it could have saved my son's life - and still would.
Oh my god. Oh my god, no kidding. I would take his cancer any day, die right now if I could spare him of that. So would my husband.

Oh, God, why could it not have been me?

Quote:
I haven't read the book, I avoid any books / films about dying or sick children.
Sweetheart, it is not that. It is about sharing our honest feelings with our spouses. It is about being completely vulnerable with them. Opening our hearts, letting them see our wounds. And seeing theirs in return.

Totally agree on not reading about our situations. I cannot bear it, either. I almost could not read your post this morning after I saw the word "cancer" and "teenager" in it.

And even then, I had to go find my son and tell him how much I loved him, and ask him if he is happy with his life. I don't know how much longer we will have him, you know? What if his cancer is back tomorrow? Life is so fragile.

My husband called a little bit ago and I told him about your thread. He will read it tonight. He said you cannot expect your wife to carry you. He said she is carrying her own load, and you need to help her.

It is so hard for a mother, GG. I carried my son in my womb, nursed him over 3 years. His death would devastate Dug, no doubt. But I am his mother. You just cannot compare the impact, and what it can do to a woman.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #41 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:17 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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I do remember one big lie I told at the time - the biggest lie of my life.

When my son turned to me after a bout of radiotherapy and said "Dad, am I going to die ?" and I said "No". He had asked mum first but didn't trust her to tell him the truth.
(((((((Good Guy))))))))

I am so sorry. I am just so sorry.

This whole exchange is making me cry. My heart is beating for your pain, GG, and for your wife's. I feel it very intensely. It could so easily be Dug and I next.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #42 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:20 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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I hoped by being brutally honest of my own free will about things she would have had no chance of finding out otherwise would have made her reciprocate. A covert contract I guess.

I can absolutely assure her that. In fact I've told her that it is the whole "I can't remember" thing that is putting our marriage in jeopardy.
She needs that psychiatrist then. I can only imagine what kind of shape she might be in, mentally, emotionally.

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I'll put it another way - If I had been trying to bed a woman for 2 years at that time, wrote copious notes about it every day, and how much of a useless ***** she was, and how I fantasized about another woman when I was with her, would she believe me if I said "I can't remember" ?
If she were strong, she would see your fragility, your vulnerability. She would forgive you, and hold you, and reassure you with her presence, her love.

I would do that for Dug. We have to hold each other during the hard times. We are not ourselves then.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #43 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:24 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

Do you want to stay married or do want out?

If instead she had made a photoshopped scrapbook with her and Justin Timberlake would you still have anguished so much over it?

A person's mind is not always pretty. Sometimes, if you want to enjoy eating sausage you need to stop thinking about how it's made or what's in it.

It's a whole different story if you want to walk away from this marriage.
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post #44 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:36 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

YES


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I really don't think she was trying to hurt you. I think she was just trying to survive, herself.
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post #45 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-16-2016, 01:38 PM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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YES
So glad you are here, MEM. GG needs your wise, compassionate, gentle approach.

@Duguesclin will be here tonight.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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