Loss of a child - long story - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
Dealing with Grief and Loss The grieving process is difficult. When we lose someone close to us, we go through many different emotions.

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post #61 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 06:49 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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6 years ago we lost a child to cancer,...To try to deal with it, after a few weeks I said I was "over" our child's death (of course that was a load of horse manure - but I thought it would help). After that my wife cried less in front of me. ...
... She talked about him a lot, and how his wife was a horrible witch - even though she seemed like a nice enough person to me. I suspected something was going on with her at least, but any mention of him or his wife my me would result in hysterical accusations of me being paranoid, jealous, etc. We had a joint birthday party and she invited him, but he didn't come. His wife was rude with my wife, but perfectly fine with me.



... I got suspicious and had a snoop through her wardrobe. What I found shocked me. A book about all sorts of sex stories - not 50 shades, more like written hardcore porn. 3 different vibrators. I don't care and am not a prude, but this was completely the opposite of the image she presented to me. Her diary, detailing how she fantasised about this teacher, and how she hated having sex with me, and how any time she did it, or dreamed about sex, she thought about him....She sent him a few texts, even inviting him over one Christmas..... She sent him a letter thanking him for taking care of our son


She says she doesn't remember any of it. I also don't trust her in the least anymore. I'm not sure what I'm looking for or what to say, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the matter. I'm really only with her for the convenience factor at the moment. Any love I had is gone. Mostly I'm just desperately sad at what happened to us, and how she couldn't be honest with me.

The subtext to all of this is the death of your child; I understand that for a loving parent, this is the grief above all others. So, I want to be respectful of that, and offer you belated condolences; a school age child was a little person in their own right, I am so sorry.

Grief affects us all differently. So, this is just my opinion. You are entitled to blow it off.

But I think being over a deceased child in a few weeks is inhumane. Now, I *know* that you admit you were talking out of you a.s.s. by saying such a thing. But it had two effects:

Saying that to yourself, and out loud to others, stopped you from finishing grieving yourself. You should never have expected the crying and mourning to be over in anything less than several months. And you'll NEVER "get over" the death of this child. It is a part of who you are. It would be obscene to "get over" it or "move on".

I would say the ideal thing to happen is that you assimilate it, learn from it (you're doing that right now with the meltdown in your marriage), and carry the bittersweet memories of your child, his short time on earth, and premature death for the rest of your life.

You'll continue to function, there will be many more experiences, and happy ones at that; but that child and his existence and impact on your life, will, and should be with you forever.


The second thing that happened was that you alienated yourself from your wife and eldest child.

I'm thinking your wife was torpedoed emotionally by you saying such a thing. If you had recanted a couple of days later, then it would have been understood to be a verbal outburst.

But it doesn't seem that you did this at all.

I can't stress enough how horrible it must have sounded to hear those callous words come out of your mouth. And, again, I think you said them because you weren't anywhere near being healed or "over it" {or some such other b.s}.

I get it, you wanted it all to be over. The shock, the misery, the loss. "Go away and leave me alone", is what your soul is screaming.

But it doesn't work that way. You have to have your guts wrenched out, in order to heal properly.

Enough of that. I am sorry for giving any offense. I thought it was relevant, so I said it in hopes it might give insight.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You're here venting and looking for feedback. Here is mine with regards to your wife and her one-sided emotional affair with the teacher.

I think she's lying. I think she remembers writing those details down, and she's wriggling around trying to get out of admitting it.

Who could blame her. But still, think of this:

Does she remember the book of erotica?

Does she remember the 3 vibrators?

Does she remember any of the texts she sent him?

Does she remember inviting him to Christmas dinner?

Does she remember driving over to his new school for a look-see?


I would guess she remembers all of those things. I know she's fudging and saying she can't remember thinking and writing those details in the diary.

At the most she can't recall the actual exact words and sentences. But she remembers the feelings and desires that inspired them; and I'll bet a lot of the words have stuck around in her head too.

There's a reason this guys wife didn't like her. There's a reason she thought his wife was a "witch". You met his wife. She seemed okay to you.

I have sympathy with your wife for the loss of her child, and for the shellshock she must have gone through after you told her it was time to dry your collective eyes and move on.

But, she remembers the diary.[In my opinion, of course]


Whether or not you stick around for the convenience is up to you.

I think if you stay you have to forgive. What your wife did was not overlookable in ordinary circumstances.

The illness and death of your child were extraordinary circumstances.

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post #62 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 06:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Originally Posted by notmyrealname4 View Post
The subtext to all of this is the death of your child; I understand that for a loving parent, this is the grief above all others. So, I want to be respectful of that, and offer you belated condolences; a school age child was a little person in their own right, I am so sorry.

Grief affects us all differently. So, this is just my opinion. You are entitled to blow it off.

But I think being over a deceased child in a few weeks is inhumane. Now, I *know* that you admit you were talking out of you a.s.s. by saying such a thing. But it had two effects:

Saying that to yourself, and out loud to others, stopped you from finishing grieving yourself. You should never have expected the crying and mourning to be over in anything less than several months. And you'll NEVER "get over" the death of this child. It is a part of who you are. It would be obscene to "get over" it or "move on".

I would say the ideal thing to happen is that you assimilate it, learn from it (you're doing that right now with the meltdown in your marriage), and carry the bittersweet memories of your child, his short time on earth, and premature death for the rest of your life.

You'll continue to function, there will be many more experiences, and happy ones at that; but that child and his existence and impact on your life, will, and should be with you forever.


The second thing that happened was that you alienated yourself from your wife and eldest child.

I'm thinking your wife was torpedoed emotionally by you saying such a thing. If you had recanted a couple of days later, then it would have been understood to be a verbal outburst.

But it doesn't seem that you did this at all.

I can't stress enough how horrible it must have sounded to hear those callous words come out of your mouth. And, again, I think you said them because you weren't anywhere near being healed or "over it" {or some such other b.s}.

I get it, you wanted it all to be over. The shock, the misery, the loss. "Go away and leave me alone", is what your soul is screaming.

But it doesn't work that way. You have to have your guts wrenched out, in order to heal properly.

Enough of that. I am sorry for giving any offense. I thought it was relevant, so I said it in hopes it might give insight.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You're here venting and looking for feedback. Here is mine with regards to your wife and her one-sided emotional affair with the teacher.

I think she's lying. I think she remembers writing those details down, and she's wriggling around trying to get out of admitting it.

Who could blame her. But still, think of this:

Does she remember the book of erotica?

Does she remember the 3 vibrators?

Does she remember any of the texts she sent him?

Does she remember inviting him to Christmas dinner?

Does she remember driving over to his new school for a look-see?


I would guess she remembers all of those things. I know she's fudging and saying she can't remember thinking and writing those details in the diary.

At the most she can't recall the actual exact words and sentences. But she remembers the feelings and desires that inspired them; and I'll bet a lot of the words have stuck around in her head too.

There's a reason this guys wife didn't like her. There's a reason she thought his wife was a "witch". You met his wife. She seemed okay to you.

I have sympathy with your wife for the loss of her child, and for the shellshock she must have gone through after you told her it was time to dry your collective eyes and move on.

But, she remembers the diary.[In my opinion, of course]


Whether or not you stick around for the convenience is up to you.

I think if you stay you have to forgive. What your wife did was not overlookable in ordinary circumstances.

The illness and death of your child were extraordinary circumstances.
I agree with everything you said. Together with our conversation this morning, I feel I have closure - not as much as I might want ideally, but enough.

I was an ass - I see that now clearly. I was also angry at the world for a while.

She said the book (which she told me about without knowing I had already seen it, but critically after the diary discovery) and the vibrators were an attempt to get her interested in sex again - with me supposedly. Maybe that was true, I have no way of knowing. Of course she remembers the other events you describe above - hell she drove over there with a mutual friend of ours, who later confirmed it with me after this all came out. She admits to remembering that. I was disappointed the friend didn't say anything beforehand, as that was strange behavior to say the least.

Last edited by Good Guy; 08-17-2016 at 07:05 AM.
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post #63 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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Good,
You cannot coerce transparency. And as the primary breadwinner it is HIGHLY coercive to say: XYZ is putting the marriage in jeopardy.

Been there - done that - in my experience it was an epic fail.

Let's skip all the fluff and hit the punch line. G2 said: I HATE having sex with Goodguy. That is the real issue. And given her behavior - a seemingly true statement.

If it was me - I'd address THAT in a direct and low key manner.

GG: It's obvious you dislike having sex with me. What can I do to make it better for you?

Be forewarned - it might be physical stuff that you cannot change.
I've tried that already several times. She just said each time that she wasn't interested in sex at all. The last year or so, our sex life is better than it ever was, so not sure what changed. I guess I was more of a "man" the last while, before I went along with her trying to address her every need, but I don't do that anymore. For some strange reason, other women are flirting with me too, whereas before they didn't, or maybe I didn't notice them. I'm not sure.
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post #64 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 07:46 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

Hey,

I am totally stoked to hear you worked it out. I hope any of our contributions here helped and you continue your journey through life good together.

Go. Live a happy life like your child would have wanted. You honor his/her memory by doing so.

And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
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post #65 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

@Duguesclin, @jld

That's similar to our story, our son was diagnosed in the teeth of the great recession and I'm self employed, and my wife handles the accounts of the business. So you can see what a disaster that was outside of the obvious.

You have both helped me a lot. I won't point my wife at this thread as she would absolutely freak at me talking to "strangers" on the internet about our marriage. I know, that's probably an issue too but one thing at a time.
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post #66 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 08:52 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

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@Duguesclin, @jld

That's similar to our story, our son was diagnosed in the teeth of the great recession and I'm self employed, and my wife handles the accounts of the business. So you can see what a disaster that was outside of the obvious.

You have both helped me a lot. I won't point my wife at this thread as she would absolutely freak at me talking to "strangers" on the internet about our marriage. I know, that's probably an issue too but one thing at a time.
Wow, that was a lot to handle. You two should give yourselves a hand. The cancer alone is enough to put a lot of couples under.

GG, the hospital in India made us pay every other day for our son's treatment, or they would have kicked him out. It took two months for us to get the reimbursement going from the company here in America. Until then we were just scrambling, putting everything on the credit card, draining our savings.

Then one day we were basically out of money, with a payment due the next day. I looked at Dug and said, "What are we going to do?" He said, "I don't know."

The next morning we awoke to an email from his company saying they were depositing $7k into our account. They thought we might be financially stressed. Two weeks later the insurance company sent the first reimbursement.

Just remembering all this makes me put my head in my hands.

I totally get why your wife does not want to remember anything. Who wants to relive that nightmare?



Just do whatever you can, take whatever you can from any of the posts, whatever seems helpful.

I really do hope you two make it. I was reading an article last night on how the death of a child is something the parents will always share. A new partner will never fully understand what you and your wife have gone through together.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #67 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Loss of a child - long story

I'd say you aren't out of the woods yet but on a clear path towards it.

I think both grief and couples counselling might be something to seriously consider.

For her, depression anon groups and child loss group would be extremely beneficial.

Even you might want to consider going to a child loss group. Being able to commiserate with other parents that have lost their child can be very cathartic and healing. To know that others just get it without having to explain yourself in detail is a comfort.

I haven't a clue what it's like to loose a child. I have a clue what it's like to nearly loose a child (three times over, two preemies and a very dangerous 4th birth that nearly took both our lives) but no where comparable to what you and your wife have felt, gone through or deal with even now.

I can guess, but that would be an injustice that would devalue both of you. I can only say that if either of you needed an ear, a shoulder (as virtual as it may be) I am at your disposal for both of you.

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"The most beautiful words in any language: I forgive"
Wind Through The Keyhole - Dark Tower Series - Stephen King
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