First MC Session, Help - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Experiences in Counseling Have you been through professional marriage or relationship counseling? Are you considering it? This section is for topics related to seeing a therapist.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 05:35 PM
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Re: First MC Session, Help

What did the MC say about it?
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 05:37 PM
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by Cecezakat View Post
Thank you. I've already begun detaching from him because I've started to realize the problems HE has instead of me always feeling guilty and the one at fault. Recognizing what he does wrong in our marriage gave me the confidence to stand up for myself in ways I hadn't before.

Do you have any materials to recommend on how to further detach yourself from your spouse while working on your own behavior?
You can view the 180 rules and follow the ones that apply to you.

There is also neglect of the relationship while you focus on yourself. What I mean is create a happy, fulfilling life outside the relationship. It will hurt, the need to reinforce the bond will be strong. When your husband feels you pulling away, he has an instinctual need to pull you back and offers some incentives such as caring and attention. Then when he has you reconnected, he returns to old behavior. People often get stuck in a cycle and the positive changes they see offer them hope, but it tends to be just a cycle they are stuck in.

You want to see changes for a prolong period of time. Six months to a year for small to moderate change.

As for your own issues. It is small steps and goals to accomplish.

When he bombards you, walk away. Nothing will be accomplished during high levels of emotions. Learn about being mindful. Keep your thoughts in the here and now. Breathing exercises help regulate emotions such as anger. there is a change in how the body operates when one feels angry. By calming down the heart rate, blood pressure, it allows your use of judgement. You will still be angry, but you are more capable of thinking things out rationally.

Is your life mostly prioritize around his career? Can you actually be happy and okay with it? What about your own personal goals, do you always forgo your own goals over his? At the end of the day, and later on in life, would you be okay with the constant moves just for him?

By hfocusing primarily on his career, are you making yourself less independent?

So, a good place to start is asking yourself questions.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by marduk View Post
What did the MC say about it?
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She said if he is then the truth will come out because it always does. She was focusing on getting us to quietly listen to the other and then repeat it back. He's very intelligent and very convincing. I'm not sure how good counselors are, if they can still pick up on it.

"Show forgiveness, enjoin kindness, and avoid ignorance"
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by Mr.Fisty View Post
You can view the 180 rules and follow the ones that apply to you.

There is also neglect of the relationship while you focus on yourself. What I mean is create a happy, fulfilling life outside the relationship. It will hurt, the need to reinforce the bond will be strong. When your husband feels you pulling away, he has an instinctual need to pull you back and offers some incentives such as caring and attention. Then when he has you reconnected, he returns to old behavior. People often get stuck in a cycle and the positive changes they see offer them hope, but it tends to be just a cycle they are stuck in.

You want to see changes for a prolong period of time. Six months to a year for small to moderate change.

As for your own issues. It is small steps and goals to accomplish.

When he bombards you, walk away. Nothing will be accomplished during high levels of emotions. Learn about being mindful. Keep your thoughts in the here and now. Breathing exercises help regulate emotions such as anger. there is a change in how the body operates when one feels angry. By calming down the heart rate, blood pressure, it allows your use of judgement. You will still be angry, but you are more capable of thinking things out rationally.

Is your life mostly prioritize around his career? Can you actually be happy and okay with it? What about your own personal goals, do you always forgo your own goals over his? At the end of the day, and later on in life, would you be okay with the constant moves just for him?

By hfocusing primarily on his career, are you making yourself less independent?

So, a good place to start is asking yourself questions.
I will look up the 180. Anytime I try to pull away he becomes extremely charming. I didn't respond to his messages or phone calls all day while he was at work and he came home all smiles and laughing "so you did have your phone with you. Honey you were ignoring me, that's really bad" then he cuddled with me. I told him he said yesterday that he just wants to have his space and his independent life (to our MC) and I said I'm not in the way of your space. Have it. He said he can take his space sitting next to me.

Anytime I tried to leave before, when I wasn't pregnant, he would block the doorways and hug me and say he's sorry like how a little boy would say. My mistake is that I always let it work. I have a hard time holding grudges and anger against someone, especially if they are smiling and playing. Hence his total lack of motivation to take my concerns seriously and commit to real change.

I really believe IC can help me with not reacting to him the way he wants and remaining calm when he is picking a fight.

I'm fine with prioritizing around his career. I'm focused on taking care of my son and being a stay at home mom. When they are both in school I will get a job so I'm not bored. I'm starting a post bacc program in a few months so I can work towards a specific career. He encourages it and says he would accommodate my job. We'll see.

"Show forgiveness, enjoin kindness, and avoid ignorance"
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 06:22 PM
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by Cecezakat View Post
I will look up the 180. Anytime I try to pull away he becomes extremely charming. I didn't respond to his messages or phone calls all day while he was at work and he came home all smiles and laughing "so you did have your phone with you. Honey you were ignoring me, that's really bad" then he cuddled with me. I told him he said yesterday that he just wants to have his space and his independent life (to our MC) and I said I'm not in the way of your space. Have it. He said he can take his space sitting next to me.

Anytime I tried to leave before, when I wasn't pregnant, he would block the doorways and hug me and say he's sorry like how a little boy would say. My mistake is that I always let it work. I have a hard time holding grudges and anger against someone, especially if they are smiling and playing. Hence his total lack of motivation to take my concerns seriously and commit to real change.

I really believe IC can help me with not reacting to him the way he wants and remaining calm when he is picking a fight.

I'm fine with prioritizing around his career. I'm focused on taking care of my son and being a stay at home mom. When they are both in school I will get a job so I'm not bored. I'm starting a post bacc program in a few months so I can work towards a specific career. He encourages it and says he would accommodate my job. We'll see.

It would be a good idea to keep reminding yourself about the way he manipulates you. Words are easy and if he really wants you to have marriage satisfaction, he will have to back that up with action.

I am afraid he will stay in denial until a catastrophic event occurs like divorce papers.

Also, falling for his charms reinforces that he can be charming and you will let your guard down only to fall back into the cycle.

In a way, you help strengthen that behavior. So, if you want to help him, do not let him hide behind his own illusions. He needs to face consequences for his actions. Falling for his charms has not help him grow.

You have not yet left him, so why should he put in any effort. Being charming requires less effort and that is what you have accepted so far, minimal effort.

You also show a pattern of behavior to him and so he will think all it will take to soothe you is be charming. Your past history is an indication of that. So, work on personal boundaries as well.

I am such a tree hugger because it gives me wood!
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 07:14 PM
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Re: First MC Session, Help

OP,
I am not so sure his actions are "like a little boy". Granted I do not have a mountain of information from which to draw an opinion but I see him as very weak and insecure. He says he wants his own space but yet wants to know your whereabouts and motives for wearing makeup when going out? This sounds more like someone who is very unsure of himself and his relationship. His manipulation may be nothing more than his reaction to the intense fear he really feels at the thought of losing you.

He is somewhat confident now as he knows you are "trapped", for lack of a better word, being pregnant and having to miss work. I truly believe that he could benefit from IC if he finds a good one and they can expose his insecurities and fears. You mentioned how good it felt not to engage when you were at the therapy session. Perhaps carry this over into your daily life. When he tries to engage you fight the urge to defend yourself and let him rant. Some, if not most, of his control is based on your engaging him, if you cease to, he loses much of his "power" to coerce you and the fights. I know it is difficult but when you engage him you play right into his manipulative plan. Do not think of not engaging him as not defending yourself because what defense do you need in the face of lies? Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation. Let him drone on and only present back to him with calm honesty.

Perhaps, as you do this and as he loses what he feels is is power, you will then be able to speak with him from a position of more authority rather than an already compromised position of trying to defend lies. Just a thought. I wish you good fortune in your efforts.
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 07:17 PM
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Re: First MC Session, Help

It sounds to me like both of you have issues listening.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First MC Session, Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Fisty View Post
It would be a good idea to keep reminding yourself about the way he manipulates you. Words are easy and if he really wants you to have marriage satisfaction, he will have to back that up with action.

I am afraid he will stay in denial until a catastrophic event occurs like divorce papers.

Also, falling for his charms reinforces that he can be charming and you will let your guard down only to fall back into the cycle.

In a way, you help strengthen that behavior. So, if you want to help him, do not let him hide behind his own illusions. He needs to face consequences for his actions. Falling for his charms has not help him grow.

You have not yet left him, so why should he put in any effort. Being charming requires less effort and that is what you have accepted so far, minimal effort.

You also show a pattern of behavior to him and so he will think all it will take to soothe you is be charming. Your past history is an indication of that. So, work on personal boundaries as well.
I agree with everything. I realize I have accepted a low standard of effort from him. I want to work on these issues in IC. I hope that could cause a change but it does feel like only a real separation would motivate him.

"Show forgiveness, enjoin kindness, and avoid ignorance"
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by NoChoice View Post
OP,
I am not so sure his actions are "like a little boy". Granted I do not have a mountain of information from which to draw an opinion but I see him as very weak and insecure. He says he wants his own space but yet wants to know your whereabouts and motives for wearing makeup when going out? This sounds more like someone who is very unsure of himself and his relationship. His manipulation may be nothing more than his reaction to the intense fear he really feels at the thought of losing you.

He is somewhat confident now as he knows you are "trapped", for lack of a better word, being pregnant and having to miss work. I truly believe that he could benefit from IC if he finds a good one and they can expose his insecurities and fears. You mentioned how good it felt not to engage when you were at the therapy session. Perhaps carry this over into your daily life. When he tries to engage you fight the urge to defend yourself and let him rant. Some, if not most, of his control is based on your engaging him, if you cease to, he loses much of his "power" to coerce you and the fights. I know it is difficult but when you engage him you play right into his manipulative plan. Do not think of not engaging him as not defending yourself because what defense do you need in the face of lies? Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation. Let him drone on and only present back to him with calm honesty.

Perhaps, as you do this and as he loses what he feels is is power, you will then be able to speak with him from a position of more authority rather than an already compromised position of trying to defend lies. Just a thought. I wish you good fortune in your efforts.
I think you are right. Especially at the beginning of our relationship he used to express very strong fear of losing me. He called me non stop until I answered my phone and when he thought it was over for some reason, he says he tried to kill himself. He isn't that dramatic anymore, in fact he had a time where he decided he is too weak and emotional and decided to "toughen up".

He still makes comments that one day I might realize I settled for him and I will leave to find a better man. Usually he frames that in terms of looks, because he believes he is ugly and I'm super beautiful. I think our level of attractiveness is equal to each other but he is incredibly insecure about it and questions why I am even attracted to him.

I didn't really think about it, but I think you are right about his manipulation being a reaction to his fear. Looking back I see that he used manipulation from the start to keep me, because he was so sure he wasn't good enough and I would leave. I also haven't helped in that regard. I have threatened to leave so much that it's beyond meaningless. For me, it was just because I was feeling intense emotions I didn't know how to handle, and saying I was going to leave felt like an escape from those feelings. But his insecurity about me leaving has been present from day one.

"Lies are indefensible as they can change to meet the situation." Wow, well said. When I engage him and try to defend myself he does keep changing it on me. It mentally and emotionally exhausts me. I definitely want to stop engaging him.

Thanks for your input. It's much appreciated.

"Show forgiveness, enjoin kindness, and avoid ignorance"
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First MC Session, Help

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Originally Posted by sixbravebulls View Post
It sounds to me like both of you have issues listening.
Definitely. The MC said we are both so desperate to be heard that we refuse to listen to each other.


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