Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams - Talk About Marriage
Experiences in Counseling Have you been through professional marriage or relationship counseling? Are you considering it? This section is for topics related to seeing a therapist.

User Tag List

 10Likes
  • 1 Post By Evinrude58
  • 3 Post By EleGirl
  • 1 Post By Works
  • 3 Post By EleGirl
  • 1 Post By 23cm
  • 1 Post By WilliamM
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
23cm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The South
Posts: 122
Exclamation Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Reading through many of the posts this morning, I see "counseling" and "therapy" recommended for a never ending variety of ills--from coping with unfaithful spouses to full-on b!tching and bulling by family, coworkers and partners.

What a crock. Mostly, it's useless palaver primarily designed to separate "patients" from their money through a combination of charlatanism and oogabooga science.

In my first marriage, we drew things out for an eternity trying to fix things with the help of marriage counseling. Over the course of two years, we saw 7, yes SEVEN because whenever the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her. Like a chump, I went along with the program because I believed in the efficacy of applied psychology. Not any more.

Most recently, I've been dealing with an alcoholic wife and after talking things over with our shared general practitioner, took the doc's advice to see a shrink--a psychiatrist -- the MD type. I attended my first session with a written list of issues that I wanted help with and expected outcomes--how I'd know when therapy was being successful. First session $420 (nonreimbursable by insurance) for an hour and a half of me explaining the problems. Second session, $180 for 45 minutes of me explaining the problem and him saying, "and how did you feel about that." Two more sessions of "And, how did you feel about that." The shrink told me nothing I didn't already know, there were no revelations or uncovered phobias.

Oh, there was the suggestion that I attend a Al Anon session for the insights and companionship it would afford. For that I spent nearly a thousand bucks. I told him I'd considered that but didn't agree with many of the group's tenets.

So, to all of you who get advised to see a counselor, be advised that it's a craps game with the house having the advantage.

23cm is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 10:11 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,864
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Soppisedly the counselor just give you the opportunity to talk and walk you through figuring things out for yourself. I think I'll save my money and just figure it out for myself, lol.
My best friend's mom, my bro in law, and my dad all do this **** for free. If only they knew how much money I should be paying then to listen to my crap, they'd be really po'd lol.
Evinrude58 is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 11:12 AM
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 829
There are different types of therapy- some offer feedback and give expert opinions based on their clinical experience.

I agree that most MCs are not very helpful at improving marriages. I read a stat that MC is successful only 17% of the time.

But marital coaching that gives couples a concrete plan to improve their marriage can be very helpful- some programs like Marriage Builders have saved many marriages.

For couples with poor communication and/or problem solving techniques, I think searching for a plan that has worked for others in the same situation is probably the best bet. And many marriage problems come down to the same issues. Most couples' problems are not really unique.
Jessica38 is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 11:55 AM
Administrator
 
EleGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 33,803
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

The marriage counseling that you and your ex did. It sounds like it failed because "the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her." A counselor/therapist cannot force anyone to do anything. The patients have to be willing to be admit and address their own flaws. Seeing 7 counselors in 2 years not going to work because it takes time to build the relationship, to trust the counselor, etc. You really cannot blame the counselors if your wife was not ready to deal with her own stuff.

The experience you had with the psychiatrist is a typical Freudian type therapy. It's proven to not be very effective because of what you describe. It usually allows a person to talk about the same nonsense session after session with the therapist asking "and now of you feel about it". Most people need more guidance than that to figure out how they feel about it. But more importantly, most people need to know what to do about it. Research has found that this type of therapy actually is very non-productive except in a very few cases because it basically keeps people wallowing in their misery. Every time a person discusses the things that make them unhappy or how their parents screwed them up, they relive it. They once again experience the emotional harm, it actually perpetuates the people. It seldom helps them fix anything. It's ok to ID things that hurt you in the past. But once ID'd move on to a solution.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is much more effective. You set a goal and figure out how to get to that goal. The you start doing it. It's not something that takes years to do. A few weeks to a few months is pretty normal. Michele Weiner-Davis has a good discussion of this in her book "Divorce Busting".

I've had a lot of luck with counselors, probably because I've assessed quickly if they were worth it or not and not returned to the ones that were not going to be helpful.

Now I really like certain self help books. Most of them are more along the line to cognitive behavioral therapy. Id the problem and here's what you do to change.

Surviving An Affair -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To Create A Passionate Marriage -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EleGirl is online now  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:28 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,835
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Counseling fails because the counseled often feel they were dragged into it... Or, there are underlying mental health issues that your vanilla flavor counselor can't address.
john117 is online now  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 02:49 PM
Registered User
 
Works's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

How funny that after a year of me having logged onto this site, this was the first thing that caught my attention (your post). My husband and I recently considered counseling... You are ABSOLUTELY right, it is a crock. You sit there and talk about how this/that/and the other makes you feel. Needless to say, long story short, we got through our issues on our own. Not saying it will be the same for everyone... Our sessions would have been $200 for an hour... You have to want to work on your marriage for it to work, counseling, or on your own.
Works is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
23cm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The South
Posts: 122
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
The marriage counseling that you and your ex did. It sounds like it failed because "the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her." A counselor/therapist cannot force anyone to do anything. The patients have to be willing to be admit and address their own flaws. Seeing 7 counselors in 2 years not going to work because it takes time to build the relationship, to trust the counselor, etc. You really cannot blame the counselors if your wife was not ready to deal with her own stuff.

The experience you had with the psychiatrist is a typical Freudian type therapy. It's proven to not be very effective because of what you describe. It usually allows a person to talk about the same nonsense session after session with the therapist asking "and now of you feel about it". Most people need more guidance than that to figure out how they feel about it. But more importantly, most people need to know what to do about it. Research has found that this type of therapy actually is very non-productive except in a very few cases because it basically keeps people wallowing in their misery. Every time a person discusses the things that make them unhappy or how their parents screwed them up, they relive it. They once again experience the emotional harm, it actually perpetuates the people. It seldom helps them fix anything. It's ok to ID things that hurt you in the past. But once ID'd move on to a solution.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is much more effective. You set a goal and figure out how to get to that goal. The you start doing it. It's not something that takes years to do. A few weeks to a few months is pretty normal. Michele Weiner-Davis has a good discussion of this in her book "Divorce Busting".

I've had a lot of luck with counselors, probably because I've assessed quickly if they were worth it or not and not returned to the ones that were not going to be helpful.

Now I really like certain self help books. Most of them are more along the line to cognitive behavioral therapy. Id the problem and here's what you do to change.
Thanks EleGirl....I went to this guy with some psych knowledge--an MBA in Organizational Behavior and had all kinds of graduate level psych classes--and believed he was more of the Cognitive Behavior variety. That's why I prepared ahead of time and took written information about the basics of the problem--my wife drinks too much and sometimes so much that she disassociates and hallucinates...what should I do? Aside from a 12-step program for her -- she'd never go what tools what paths are open. If what I wanted wasn't what he was willing and prepared to do, why continue?

Frankly, reading bulletin boards like Sober Recovery have helped much more than the high-priced shrink.
23cm is online now  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 02:37 AM
Administrator
 
EleGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 33,803
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23cm View Post
Thanks EleGirl....I went to this guy with some psych knowledge--an MBA in Organizational Behavior and had all kinds of graduate level psych classes--and believed he was more of the Cognitive Behavior variety. That's why I prepared ahead of time and took written information about the basics of the problem--my wife drinks too much and sometimes so much that she disassociates and hallucinates...what should I do? Aside from a 12-step program for her -- she'd never go what tools what paths are open. If what I wanted wasn't what he was willing and prepared to do, why continue?

Frankly, reading bulletin boards like Sober Recovery have helped much more than the high-priced shrink.
Yea, it a crap shoot since one never knows is a counselor/therapist will be any good. Getting a bad one can be worse than not going at all.

But a good counselor/therapist can be a great asset.

Surviving An Affair -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To Create A Passionate Marriage -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
EleGirl is online now  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 04:40 AM
Forum Supporter
 
Satya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,777
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

I personally had a great experience with my therapist, during my divorce.

Sounds like you had a poor therapist and didn't crack down on your wife for obviously not being serious about wanting to address the issue(s). Cycling through 7 therapists is not their fault, and not what I'd think of as the norm.

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

~ Abraham Maslow
Satya is online now  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 04:50 AM
Forum Supporter
 
arbitrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Central Texas/Brazos Valley
Posts: 11,713
Cool Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23cm View Post
Reading through many of the posts this morning, I see "counseling" and "therapy" recommended for a never ending variety of ills--from coping with unfaithful spouses to full-on b!tching and bulling by family, coworkers and partners.

What a crock. Mostly, it's useless palaver primarily designed to separate "patients" from their money through a combination of charlatanism and oogabooga science.

In my first marriage, we drew things out for an eternity trying to fix things with the help of marriage counseling. Over the course of two years, we saw 7, yes SEVEN because whenever the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her. Like a chump, I went along with the program because I believed in the efficacy of applied psychology. Not any more.

Most recently, I've been dealing with an alcoholic wife and after talking things over with our shared general practitioner, took the doc's advice to see a shrink--a psychiatrist -- the MD type. I attended my first session with a written list of issues that I wanted help with and expected outcomes--how I'd know when therapy was being successful. First session $420 (nonreimbursable by insurance) for an hour and a half of me explaining the problems. Second session, $180 for 45 minutes of me explaining the problem and him saying, "and how did you feel about that." Two more sessions of "And, how did you feel about that." The shrink told me nothing I didn't already know, there were no revelations or uncovered phobias.

Oh, there was the suggestion that I attend a Al Anon session for the insights and companionship it would afford. For that I spent nearly a thousand bucks. I told him I'd considered that but didn't agree with many of the group's tenets.

So, to all of you who get advised to see a counselor, be advised that it's a craps game with the house having the advantage.
So sorry to hear that, my friend! Oh, how I sense your pain! Just as there are some absolutely great counselors out there, there are some real clowns out there as well!

Did you not get references from either people who had used this counselor before, or at the very least, from online rating services, say like an "Angie's List?"



"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
arbitrator is online now  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-10-2017, 05:32 AM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,835
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

The whole idea of therapy is talk. We started off with a renowned psychologist and graduate of the same university I went to. Thankfully it was $10 copays and after eight months​ it went nowhere. It was one of those "he should have gone to accounting school" moments.

We switched to a different one - graduate of our school's rival - and she made spectacular headway.

There's too many people in the profession that should not be there, period.
john117 is online now  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 06:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 2,480
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23cm View Post
Reading through many of the posts this morning, I see "counseling" and "therapy" recommended for a never ending variety of ills--from coping with unfaithful spouses to full-on b!tching and bulling by family, coworkers and partners.

What a crock. Mostly, it's useless palaver primarily designed to separate "patients" from their money through a combination of charlatanism and oogabooga science.

In my first marriage, we drew things out for an eternity trying to fix things with the help of marriage counseling. Over the course of two years, we saw 7, yes SEVEN because whenever the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her. Like a chump, I went along with the program because I believed in the efficacy of applied psychology. Not any more.

Most recently, I've been dealing with an alcoholic wife and after talking things over with our shared general practitioner, took the doc's advice to see a shrink--a psychiatrist -- the MD type. I attended my first session with a written list of issues that I wanted help with and expected outcomes--how I'd know when therapy was being successful. First session $420 (nonreimbursable by insurance) for an hour and a half of me explaining the problems. Second session, $180 for 45 minutes of me explaining the problem and him saying, "and how did you feel about that." Two more sessions of "And, how did you feel about that." The shrink told me nothing I didn't already know, there were no revelations or uncovered phobias.

Oh, there was the suggestion that I attend a Al Anon session for the insights and companionship it would afford. For that I spent nearly a thousand bucks. I told him I'd considered that but didn't agree with many of the group's tenets.

So, to all of you who get advised to see a counselor, be advised that it's a craps game with the house having the advantage.
An ignoramus writes.....

Individual counseling often fails as the individual is unwilling to do anything. In the case of MC, not only do you need both to act, but most change will have to come from the person who is probably laziest and least committed.

I am perfectly happy with the MC I got before my divorce. It gave her homework, which she never did and that helped me see through her perpetual victim status. My ex-wife was not willing to make any effort, which was the problem in the marriage. It was a problem for the MC too, but not the MC's fault. Yet, it becomes another example of MC not working.

Of course, that was the Scandinavian model. The UK model accepts the aforementioned problem. It trys to make the man fit the woman. If the man is lazy and ignorant, it tries to change him. If the woman is lazy and ignorant, it insists the man accept her version of reality rather than objective reality for the sake of the marriage change his life around that. It probably is more effective for saving marriages, but pretty terrible in its own way. That is the model you encountered. Assuming the man is the more emotionally aware and responsible, it can succeed. But, normally, it will not work.

The truth is, if both people are prepared to work at making a marriage work, then it will not end up in MC in the first place.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:13 AM
Member
 
aine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Away and beyond in a hot place
Posts: 3,209
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23cm View Post
Reading through many of the posts this morning, I see "counseling" and "therapy" recommended for a never ending variety of ills--from coping with unfaithful spouses to full-on b!tching and bulling by family, coworkers and partners.

What a crock. Mostly, it's useless palaver primarily designed to separate "patients" from their money through a combination of charlatanism and oogabooga science.

In my first marriage, we drew things out for an eternity trying to fix things with the help of marriage counseling. Over the course of two years, we saw 7, yes SEVEN because whenever the counselor even intimated that my ex might be wrong about something, it was over for him/her. Like a chump, I went along with the program because I believed in the efficacy of applied psychology. Not any more.

Most recently, I've been dealing with an alcoholic wife and after talking things over with our shared general practitioner, took the doc's advice to see a shrink--a psychiatrist -- the MD type. I attended my first session with a written list of issues that I wanted help with and expected outcomes--how I'd know when therapy was being successful. First session $420 (nonreimbursable by insurance) for an hour and a half of me explaining the problems. Second session, $180 for 45 minutes of me explaining the problem and him saying, "and how did you feel about that." Two more sessions of "And, how did you feel about that." The shrink told me nothing I didn't already know, there were no revelations or uncovered phobias.

Oh, there was the suggestion that I attend a Al Anon session for the insights and companionship it would afford. For that I spent nearly a thousand bucks. I told him I'd considered that but didn't agree with many of the group's tenets.

So, to all of you who get advised to see a counselor, be advised that it's a craps game with the house having the advantage.

Since when does anyone have to pay of $1000 for Al Anon meetings, I call BS on this. When you go to Al anon meetings you may pay for materials voluntarily but a $1000!!

Therapists/counselors, do not fix your problems, they help you to expose what it is you need to do for yourself.
aine is online now  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
23cm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The South
Posts: 122
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
Since when does anyone have to pay of $1000 for Al Anon meetings, I call BS on this. When you go to Al anon meetings you may pay for materials voluntarily but a $1000!!

Therapists/counselors, do not fix your problems, they help you to expose what it is you need to do for yourself.
You misread, or perhaps I was unclear. I didn't have to pay for the Al Anon meetings. For one thing, I never went. I paid a total of nearly $1,000 to the shrink whose considered advice after four meetings it was that I go to an Al Anon meeting.

He didn't help me expose anything I didn't already know.
23cm is online now  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 07:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hudson Valley, New York State
Posts: 636
Re: Counseling/Therapy Absolute Scams

My wife had about 8 years of counseling for personal issues. I do feel it was very useful.

Last edited by WilliamM; 04-29-2017 at 07:46 PM.
WilliamM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Absolute day tomorrow! amy.b Life After Divorce 1 06-27-2016 06:46 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome