The Family & Parenting ForumsFamily dynamics can be exactly that - dynamic! Post here about family related issues such as parenting, blended families, step-families, new relationships with children involved, family of origin issues, in-laws or sibling issues.
Thank you everyone! vthomeschoolmom your first post on this made me smile and laugh! Thank you for that
I completey understand and know we as parents make the decisions for your children. I get that. Obviously, this all goes deeper than our daughter going to church.
Again, I'm not against, just am not at a point in my life to make it all I need or want. He is now asking as a last resort of effort that we do a couples counseling with pastor. He has already gone once. He ask that I go and speak with him, see how I feel, and then decide if we should go together. Because he blatenly said the pastor won't do seperate counseling, I told H to call and ask him to meet with me on his behalf and then do a couples. Well...he called and informed me we are set to go next week. Together! What happend to just me going? He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way. OH...I see. He cares for you...you can be welcomed into his home, tell your story. I on the other hand, cannot. Yes, resentment with sarcasm. Well, I have decided okay. If this is what they (H and pastor) want, then hope they are ready because I'm to the point of no holding back. I was told in last counseling sessions they wanted to meet with each of individually first, to get idea of where each were emtoionally etc. then combined us. Guess not with this preacher. Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.
H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay? I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church. Heck, he told my H he was wrong in taking his son to Las Vegas a few days and then driving to see his mom in AZ!! He said Vegas is not the place to try and connect with your son. He does not need to be introduced to that kind of environment! Hello! We aren't talking strip clubs and hookers here! Guess out of the thousands of people in Vegas there isn't one Christian or good faithed/hearted people. We should implode that place then. Just kidding. As for seeing his mom, H says his mom will do nothing but an "I told you so" and preacher says due to our situation, he really shouldn't be around someone with more negativity. Forget that he hasn't seen his mother in 3 years.
I'm sorry I'm getting off track of this post. I'm just so frusterated even more so with the development of this meeting the pastor thing etc. I told him this morning we need to wait until after 1st as I don't want the termoil right before Christmas especially with our daughter. She deserves a household of fun, cheer, happiness! Not gloom and doom! He doesn't agree as he says I want this fixed as soon as possible. I told him one meeting is not and will not fix this.
Never thought in million years I'd be here, in this situation, struggling to know, feel, do, and enact on what to do for my own happiness. I'm to place where if I'm a horrible person, selfish, and what ever else I can be labled for not wanting to pursue church the way H is right now then so be it...I am.
Her H listened to a preacher on TV? And how much money did he send him?
Really! Haha...I actually was thinking of telling him to look up Earnest (sp?) Angly as right now I'm thinking getting smacked upside the head might do some good in healing!
Thank you everyone! vthomeschoolmom your first post on this made me smile and laugh! Thank you for that
I completey understand and know we as parents make the decisions for your children. I get that. Obviously, this all goes deeper than our daughter going to church.
Again, I'm not against, just am not at a point in my life to make it all I need or want. He is now asking as a last resort of effort that we do a couples counseling with pastor. He has already gone once. He ask that I go and speak with him, see how I feel, and then decide if we should go together. Because he blatenly said the pastor won't do seperate counseling, I told H to call and ask him to meet with me on his behalf and then do a couples. Well...he called and informed me we are set to go next week. Together! What happend to just me going?
He does not want you to say anything that he is not there to control.
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He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way.
That would be the first thing I asked the pastor in the appointment. Out of context or whatever, say nothing. When it is your turn to speak you say "Pastor, DH said you did not want to see me alone. Is this true?" If he answers yes, "why?"
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OH...I see. He cares for you...you can be welcomed into his home, tell your story. I on the other hand, cannot.
If the pastor indicates that this is, in fact, the case, then this is the wrong counselor for the 2 of you.
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Yes, resentment with sarcasm. Well, I have decided okay. If this is what they (H and pastor) want, then hope they are ready because I'm to the point of no holding back. I was told in last counseling sessions they wanted to meet with each of individually first, to get idea of where each were emtoionally etc. then combined us. Guess not with this preacher.
Do not assume it really IS the preacher.
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Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.
Wrong is irrelevant. It is ineffective. Show the preacher that you are
- calm, cool and collected
- not the mental case your DH has almost certainly portrayed you as
- capable of solving problems and communicating
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H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay?
Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?
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I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church.
You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.
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Never thought in million years I'd be here, in this situation, struggling to know, feel, do, and enact on what to do for my own happiness. I'm to place where if I'm a horrible person, selfish, and what ever else I can be labled for not wanting to pursue church the way H is right now then so be it...I am.
Who cares what anyone else labels you. Can you remind me again why you are still playing this man's game? Why not find a counselor, not this pastor, who can help YOU to gain some clarity on this situation and stop singing his tune.
Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?
You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.
I'm thinking you are in the wrong church too. Sounds like a lot of ignorance at work controlling people to me. What qualifications does this minister have?
I'm thinking you are in the wrong church too. Sounds like a lot of ignorance at work controlling people to me. What qualifications does this minister have?
Also bear in mind that, unless you are hearing this yourself in sermons, if it is the word of your husband, he may be making it up.
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He said preacher doesn't want to do it that way.
That would be the first thing I asked the pastor in the appointment. Out of context or whatever, say nothing. When it is your turn to speak you say "Pastor, DH said you did not want to see me alone. Is this true?" If he answers yes, "why
Thank you, I didn't think of that but I will. If I do this. I have such mixed resentful and angered emotions right now that I shouldn't even go at this point.
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Right now, I feel I'm going in with both barrells loaded. I know wrong and maybe by next week I'll calm down.
Wrong is irrelevant. It is ineffective. Show the preacher that you are
- calm, cool and collected
- not the mental case your DH has almost certainly portrayed you as
- capable of solving problems and communicating
I understand and do know this. I have felt to be 100% blame for so long in this, I've somewhat taken on the likings of my DH in reacting I guess.
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H and I met in a bar. We took country dance lessons for years together. We went out once during week and every Fri. Sat dancing. We did our share of drinking back then, yes. We sometimes would (did until about a year or so ago) go out with other couples to clubs/bar dancing etc. I love to dance! I miss it! So...since these are things I still want to do, do ya really think this preacher is going to understand and agree to it being okay?
Why wouldn't he? Is there something morally wrong about dancing?
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I guess that's another resentment but of myself as I will be the hypocrit in church. The one who went out to a bar last night had a few drinks, enjoyed herself and is now sitting in church.
You are in a church that considers dancing wrong? Having a moderate amount to drink is wrong? I would not choose to go to that church.
I'm miss speaking on this. The preacher may not disagree. I am basing it off of him saying my DH should not be in Vegas with his son due to what he "may get introduced to." Maybe I should suggest my DH take his 28yr old son to Disney Land. I'm sure the pastor would approve of that. Haha..joking. I'm preconceiving due to the environment I would be in should I go out and do these kinds of things once in a while.
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Who cares what anyone else labels you. Can you remind me again why you are still playing this man's game? Why not find a counselor, not this pastor, who can help YOU to gain some clarity on this situation and stop singing his tune.
Maybe subconciously I don't want it to be viewed as if I myself did not try and do all I can? I honestly cannot give a straight answer. I know my heart has felt what is right for thing for me on several different occassions. Yet, I still, mentally, allow the guilt to overrule. I'm struggling with that, so obviously I need deeper resources. Financially I cannot pay for counseling that is why I'm exhausting myself on the internet searching. Hence how I found everyone here. I also have had this misconceived notion that DH and I were stronger in our relationship than to end this ugly and vindictive. Sadly, I feel it deep in my soul that is exactly how this all will come to an end. AND...that with my daughter I fear will eat me alive. I sometimes want to ask her how she would feel if daddy and mommy lived in seperate houses, yet I don't want to plant the seed either.
Maybe subconciously I don't want it to be viewed as if I myself did not try and do all I can?
I know many people don't agree with this. But acquiring the ability not to care how others viewed me was one of the most liberating thing that I ever was able to do. *I* have higher moral standards than anyone I know. So if *I* don't look to myself like a bad person to myself, then if I do to someone else they must not know what they heck is going on. I am guessing you also have a high standard for yourself from your posts.
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I honestly cannot give a straight answer. I know my heart has felt what is right for thing for me on several different occassions. Yet, I still, mentally, allow the guilt to overrule. I'm struggling with that, so obviously I need deeper resources.
Yes indeed. The guilt is a necessary component of keeping you in line. (And for the record not all abusers know or always know that that is what they are doing. Some do. Some play the game on purpose. But some just have the instinct for what works.) You have been fed and encouraged your fault, blame and guilt because it keeps you off your toes and open to manipulation.
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Financially I cannot pay for counseling that is why I'm exhausting myself on the internet searching. Hence how I found everyone here.
Have you looked into domestic abuse resources? Almost ALL of them have resources for those who cannot afford to pay, even if in the form of the hot line.
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I also have had this misconceived notion that DH and I were stronger in our relationship than to end this ugly and vindictive. Sadly, I feel it deep in my soul that is exactly how this all will come to an end. AND...that with my daughter I fear will eat me alive. I sometimes want to ask her how she would feel if daddy and mommy lived in seperate houses, yet I don't want to plant the seed either.
I think that is a mistake. That is too much pressure to put on her. She is a child. You are the mother, no matter how hard it is right now to be that.
I wonder (the needle on this record player keeps skipping! ) have you found the local domestic abuse shelter/resources/hot line number in your yellow pages?
As someone who was forced to attend religious services as a child, I can say that all it did was chase me away from organized religion in general. When I was about 12 or 13 I made enough of a stink about going that my dad just didn't try to drag me anymore, but the emotional games he played to try to guilt me into going have never stopped. I am now 25 and to this day my dad preaches to me and scolds me for not "honoring god". It has become even worse since I've had our daughter, because he now uses the "you are responsible for this child's soul" arguement.
I did my fair share of stupid things when I was a teenager. I had sex, drank, tried drugs... but I honestly think that most people do at least a few bad things when they are in high school and/or college. I had to learn from my own mistakes, and I believe that is the strongest lesson one can learn.
I don't think it is right for your husband to try to force the subject with your daughter. It will most likely only drive her farther away from him, and take it from me, it's not a situation anyone likes. I wish I had a stronger relationship with my father, but I am confident in saying that it was/is his constant nagging and judging that has driven us apart.
I suggest giving your daughter a bible and letting her take her own direction to god. if she feels that church has a place in her life then she will go. that's the only way she'll find any meaning in it anyway. otherwise it's just a punishment and she'll reject it.
OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.
And you should be able to approach any pastor, church elder, etc. and find out their specific beliefs and whether or not you share in them. You should also be able to find out what their beliefs are regarding children and husbands and wives.
They likely have brochures too.
From what you described, your husband has found a way to manipulate you and your family through this new-found church.
And regarding your daughter. It seems to me that he didn't believe she hurt her back because if she was well enough to go to grandma's she ought to be well enough to go to church--in his way of thinking.
His capacity for cruelty trumps his religiosity. Banning her from grandma's on her birthday? Wow, "what would Jesus do?" would have been my question to him.
There are some churches that teach that a man's family has to do whatever he says because he is the leader of his family.
However, the problem is nobody else signed up for this church's teaching but him. Bullying you and the children is not leading.
The man is confused. The point of leading is to set a good example and mirror Christlike behavior. He's mirroring Napoleonic behavior.
If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life?
OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.
Once again, michzz says it right.
Ok resisted the urge to pepper this post with little I agree emoticons. But I do. Michzz is spot on.
I know many people don't agree with this. But acquiring the ability not to care how others viewed me was one of the most liberating thing that I ever was able to do. *I* have higher moral standards than anyone I know. So if *I* don't look to myself like a bad person to myself, then if I do to someone else they must not know what they heck is going on. I am guessing you also have a high standard for yourself from your posts.
Okay, stupid question here...is this a bad thing?
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I wonder (the needle on this record player keeps skipping! ) have you found the local domestic abuse shelter/resources/hot line number in your yellow pages?
No. Maybe I'm still in partial denial of being abused feeling these resourses are for the more severe who need and deserve them that are beaten to a pulp and truly cannot get out. I guess I'm feeling since it's emotional...there is no reason to go to such lengths as this should be something I can pull myself out of easily. Although, I'm obviously not doing so well at that either. I feel so ashamed sort of. My dad would not be proud! In fact, one thing/reason my DH said why he married me is becuase I was the first women to stand up to one of his friends who does nothing but belittle women (his wife/daughter included). This guy would make comments to me so rude and disrespectful and I dished it right back and then some! I made sure he knew I was not going to stand for his actions with me regardless of him and my DH (not hubby at time) being good friends. I did it right back infront of crowds of people as well as he thougth that made him the 'big' man! He would tell stories to crowds of people how "if I only spent 50cents for a rubber I wouldn't have this issue" blah blah...Oh ya and that's actually tame compared to other things! That spark...fire...I've lost. Obviously since I'm feeling I need to 'do what is asked of me' to prove I'm not a failure.
Also, I definately do not want DD involved or stressed. I wouldn't ask, but the thought enters my mind all the time. I fear once I take that final step, that's when I will need strength more than ever for her. Which reminds me what last counselor said to me, "your DH has two trump cards inpocket and depending on what card you lead with, will depend on what one he plays." Well...I'm not very excited about knowing what the other card may be....I'm not liking this one as it is! Not to mention I'm terrible at Ucher anyway...and never have played poker! So I'm feel I'm in a lose lose here.
OK, presuming the church is a legit, caring organization, then the kinds of things your husband is doing is totally out of line--in the context of a Christian fellowship.
And you should be able to approach any pastor, church elder, etc. and find out their specific beliefs and whether or not you share in them. You should also be able to find out what their beliefs are regarding children and husbands and wives.
They likely have brochures too.
From what you described, your husband has found a way to manipulate you and your family through this new-found church.
And regarding your daughter. It seems to me that he didn't believe she hurt her back because if she was well enough to go to grandma's she ought to be well enough to go to church--in his way of thinking.
His capacity for cruelty trumps his religiosity. Banning her from grandma's on her birthday? Wow, "what would Jesus do?" would have been my question to him.
There are some churches that teach that a man's family has to do whatever he says because he is the leader of his family.
However, the problem is nobody else signed up for this church's teaching but him. Bullying you and the children is not leading.
The man is confused. The point of leading is to set a good example and mirror Christlike behavior. He's mirroring Napoleonic behavior.
If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life?
michzz: If he has become extreme lately, why is that? What has changed in his life?
The change is me. Very long story with many many scenarios, but in short, as short as I can, I have grown. Grown out of my marriage as far as I understand it and feel. We are 11yrs apart and he is very content, complacent, and I am not ready for that. We started out for years connected at hip. I worshiped him, put him on pedestal, and when I joined Facebook one day, reconnecting with old classmates, he despised it as one day I ask him if he mind I went out of town with an old friend (girl). We planned going shopping, staying the night and going out to a club dancing then coming home next day. This was an hour away from our house. He went balistic! Reason being, supposedly he knew some history by way of working with her spouse they were swingers. I told him that is there lifestyle not ours/mine and he should trust me, which he did, says does, but is very intimidated saying these 'friends' are infringing on his family and doesn't like it. Well...that just started a domino affect with many other things which led to bring up past resentments between the two of us back over 9yrs ago. He actually during a major blow up was first to through out the "D" word on several occasions. It never ever came to mine until I started learning more and more about myself through counseling and learning more about him. This has been a 12 month roller coaster but on a 9yr ride that I'm just now figuring out and surfacing. Since I've come 'clean' in that I feel I"ve grown out of this marraige....he's gone to extreme now with religon as his last resort. And...quick side note, he said me and our DD is all he needs in his life. He needs nothing else. I cannot say the same back which has created many more complications.
So, in a nutshell, my nutshell that I've created...that is the change in his life. His change is the fact I have changed and he doesn't like it nor want to work with it...unless his terms. My thought is the religon/preacher, that maybe he feels since the things I feel I'm missing and want would not be 'approved' by them...make him feel better or at least he hopes would not be approved. I want to be able to have outside friends, maybe a girls night out which yes, would include a drink or two and maybe a club dancing. He has no reason to not trust me and admits that. His justification is that since I have low self esteem, a man, such as himself, would pick up on that and take advantage and who knows what and how I would feel and act on. He says that's how he would be so he knows it would happen. Many other things I could go on about, but those are few items.
vthomeschoolmomOkay, stupid question here...is this a bad thing?
Why is what a bad thing? Caring what people think of you? Well by itself it isn't. For instance, I would like my mother to think highly of me. I value her and he opinion. But if one cares too much about every Tom, **** and Harry, it interferes with honest judgment. By worrying about what people think, you limit your choices and remove focus from what is morally right, what is in your best interest and the interest of your child. Or at least runs the risk. They don't have the information that you do. And no matter how good of people they may be, they aren't in your shoes.
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No. Maybe I'm still in partial denial of being abused feeling these resourses are for the more severe who need and deserve them that are beaten to a pulp and truly cannot get out.
As a former domestic abuse volunteer, it is my experience that they would disagree with you. And in the final analysis, what difference does it make. You and your daughter need a point of view that you can trust.
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I guess I'm feeling since it's emotional...there is no reason to go to such lengths as this should be something I can pull myself out of easily.
What lengths? Picking up the phone? I do that daily, and I am terribly phone phobic.
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Although, I'm obviously not doing so well at that either. I feel so ashamed sort of. My dad would not be proud!
Is your father deceased as mine is? I can't speak for your Dad. I don't know him or his values. But I CAN say I am not ashamed of you. I am very proud. Your strength and your concern for your daughter demonstrate that you are a person of great quality.
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In fact, one thing/reason my DH said why he married me is becuase I was the first women to stand up to one of his friends who does nothing but belittle women (his wife/daughter included). This guy would make comments to me so rude and disrespectful and I dished it right back and then some! I made sure he knew I was not going to stand for his actions with me regardless of him and my DH (not hubby at time) being good friends. I did it right back infront of crowds of people as well as he thougth that made him the 'big' man! He would tell stories to crowds of people how "if I only spent 50cents for a rubber I wouldn't have this issue" blah blah...Oh ya and that's actually tame compared to other things! That spark...fire...I've lost. Obviously since I'm feeling I need to 'do what is asked of me' to prove I'm not a failure.
Ah the fear of being a failure. Hate it. I am a failure. All the time. It is part of being a human being, to fail. Your spark is still there. You are here because your spark is still there.With time, faith and your continued search for the right way, you will find your spark again.
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Also, I definately do not want DD involved or stressed. I wouldn't ask, but the thought enters my mind all the time. I fear once I take that final step, that's when I will need strength more than ever for her. Which reminds me what last counselor said to me, "your DH has two trump cards inpocket and depending on what card you lead with, will depend on what one he plays." Well...I'm not very excited about knowing what the other card may be....
That sounds like a fool's game. It sure does not sound like a marriage.
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I'm not liking this one as it is! Not to mention I'm terrible at Ucher anyway...and never have played poker! So I'm feel I'm in a lose lose here.
Well I hope you can find someone to reach out to beside some dope on the internet who can see YOU and your side of things. I fear for you seeking solutions through your husband.
I want to be able to have outside friends, maybe a girls night out which yes, would include a drink or two and maybe a club dancing. He has no reason to not trust me and admits that. His justification is that since I have low self esteem, a man, such as himself, would pick up on that and take advantage and who knows what and how I would feel and act on.
This is the only part of his concerns that I kind of agree with him. Despite your trustworthiness, add in booze and dancing with random men who really do want to bed you is a big risk to your self control. You would be willfully naive to think otherwise.
However, I can see that you two have grown apart. Is that likely to change? Not if your interests are so different.
This is the only part of his concerns that I kind of agree with him. Despite your trustworthiness, add in booze and dancing with random men who really do want to bed you is a big risk to your self control. You would be willfully naive to think otherwise.
Pshaw. I think that is silly. She said a drink or two, not a bottle. Seriously most women learn how to handle men who want to get in their pants when they are still in pinafore.
Re: Forcing kids into religon, whats your view? 
