The leave and cleave dilemia - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
The leave and cleave dilemia

Good Morning! Have posted before about my H and our relationship, etc. I understand the whole leave and cleave to your husband I do, but how is that possible when you have been through so much with him and it really seems that the only steady person in your life is your family.

We seem to fight about the same things over and over again, even when he knows they bother me. His perception on things is that my mom is controlling, manipulating and doesn't want to let go of me. Me on the other hand yea she maybe some of those things, but you know she can tell me to do something and I can chose whether I do it or not. My mom and I have always been very close from day one and I think he resents that fact. Is it so wrong that your mother can also be your friend. There have been times when I have relied on her way too much and I should have grown up and worked things out on my own. There have been times I talked way to much to them and my family about my marital problems. I get it all know and am working on making the necessary changes, however, when he yells and talks bad about my family and my boys and goes on and on and on......and the jabs and shots don't stop even when he knows they hurt me.....then how do you do the whole leave and cleave thing when he is the one hurting you too? He has told me I am naive and stupid that I people use me and I believe people to easily....well I believed him too!

We have been separated and now back together and I just feel like once again, I have rushed into something that I am just not sure about. How can you tell someone I love you and your my soul mate and in the very next breath you are yelling and screaming and telling them stuff about their family, using my own past against me or things that I have confided in him with, how?!?

How do you get out now? How do you make it right....I thought okay if my family sees I am happy and things are going good they will turn around, that is how they are really. But, really when I am still walking in eggshells, no they are not going to turn around.

When in the heck do you get it right?!?

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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Intermountain West
Posts: 936
Re: The leave and cleave dilemia

Suzi: Looks like you need to think real hard about your perceptions and your boundaries.

I can identify somewhat with your husband, but also find some of what you describe to be his actions to you as possibly verbally abusive.

You need to define the boundaries (what is acceptable and non-acceptable) for yourself as it would apply to not only your husband, but your immediate family.

Grounding yourself in your family, while not a necessarily bad thing can create resentment in your marriage.

The first 6 years of my marriage, I often found myself to be an extension of my wife's family - I was the man she came home to after she got sick of hanging out with her family. I could be wrong, but I perceived that there wasn't a private matter between my wife and I that my in-laws didn't know about.

When we moved to Oregon (for a new job), this created a lot of tense, hard feelings between me and the in-laws as they thought I was purposely trying to get my wife away from them.

There was definitely some truth to that, but I also had to provide for my family and help it to define its own boundaries. We lived in Oregon for 8 years. The first two of those (with exception of last few years) were very difficult for us, yet afterwards her and I developed a stronger bond together that I believe was the best possible outcome for our marriage and family, until we moved back closer to our families.

You may have to sit down with your husband (w/o kids) during a quiet time and have a frank discussion on where you marriage is and generate some ideas to that each of you can work on to improve it and come closer together. This is where you and he can set boundaries for the marriage and get a better understanding with each other.

On the other hand, if he is truly being verbally (and that might also mean emotionally) abusive - you both need to get some marriage counseling to get to the bottom of the problem, and if not resolved, maybe grounds for moving on with your life.

When I say this, please don't take personally, or assume I mean that you are responsible for his behaviour:

In any relationship, good or bad - it takes two to tango. If there are some abusive characteristics, the most interesting thing is that it can come from both sides (though not intentionally). The thing is that one's behavior is often demonstrated for all to be seen. while they may get a bad rap from others who observe, there can sometimes be passive aggressive behavior from the other that isn't as easily observed. Both are unacceptable and need to be resolved.

I hope this helps.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Re: The leave and cleave dilemia

Thank you for your reply Dadof3. I totally agree with your assumptions of that it takes two to tango. I guess though there are lots of underlying issues that go along with all of this. We met through an on-line dating service at the time he was living with his parents (which no big deal), I was living in my home (which is really my mother's house but it was to be my inheritance and I had lived there for 20 years). We dated and really before I realized it he was staying there more and more and then he officially moved in. B/c I was paying rent to my mom which only covered the taxes and insurance on the home he felt like he was getting ripped off if we did any home improvements to it. I didn't b/c I looked at it as our home. B/c I had lived there for so long and raised my kids there of course I was friends with my neighbors. He didn't like that b/c he said they were nosey and got into everyone's business. Okay we do have one lady that was like a Mrs. Kravitz I guess the know it all of the block. As far as I was concerned, big deal. She was retired she looked out for my kids while they where growing up and home alone before I got home from work, so she was a busy body....her problem not mine. So, he started resenting the neighborhood. My mom and I talked all the time or alot and he would get mad when or gets mad when she would call me eventually that has stopped. He would get mad if we went to do something and one of my boys calls me, my niece, my friends. At current moment noone calls me when they know he might be around. We moved out of my home and I resent that alot, but I did it to make him happy and it just seem to get worse. He would continually say horrible things about my family, how he hated them and they were horrible people etc. So, I moved out and unfortunately since I had no money at the time moved in with my parents. Which didn't bother me. Anyway....we started talking and he is very good at sweet talking and playing it all up we got back together my family is very disappointed b/c they have seen him react ugly to me or to someone in our family. They have seen him yell at me or they don't like the way he talks to me (disrespectful). We have even been out in public and I had a lady get up in his face and tell him he was being rude and crude to me. I guess I don't see or choose not to see it or something to that nature!

So, they all have their ideas about each other and I am stuck in the middle. If I truly trusted this man to have my best interest at heart and if I truly believed that my mother was trying to control me then maybe I could do the leave and cleave. But there have been so many lies and I don't trust him whole heartedly to put my needs or emotions first.

Case in point....I am going to my mother's for dinner with my son/wife this evening he is working no big deal and he is choosing to ignore me this afternoon b/c he is mad. I truly believe he would prefer I cut off all contact with every single person and have no-one but him.

He had friends when we first got together that he worked with and now they aren't friends anymore. We never go out with other people its only us, which is okay sometimes, but I think we need friends too.

I don't know I am rambling now. I am sorry. Thank you for your post though. He gets mad b/c my family supports me and he knows that if I chose to leave I have help and I am not some desitude person who would have to live on the streets (I guess). I truly think my family wants me to be happy but they also want to see me in a good relationship too.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 03:43 PM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Intermountain West
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Re: The leave and cleave dilemia

Suzi: The more you describe it (of course without hearing his angle) he does sounds like a toxic hubby. If the relationship with your family, outsiders would describe as healthy, then the problem is with your hubby.

I wouldn't put up with his crap. He is a grown man and needs to act like one. I think some IC might help you figure out what you really want.

You mentioned you raised kids before you met him? Is he not your first marriage or long term relationship? If not, how would you characterize the your previous relationship, and how did that one end?
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Re: The leave and cleave dilemia

My first marriage I was married about 10 years and we were very young and I was very codependent on my family and so was my first H to a certain extent. But it was so unhealthly he drank and I complained and the more I complained the more he drank viscious cycle and neither one of knew how to stop it.

My second H and I were together 16 years but were married three times and divorced three times during those 16 years so does that tell ya anything. But he is a good man, he just has alot of his own issues to work out and though we tried I don't know what happened. But with him he never kept me away from my children or made it to where my children didn't feel welcomed in there own home. He was very rigid and the boys tested him ALOT and looking back now we have all laughed about it but they always knew I loved them.

So, really I don't think I have a clue as to what is real and whats not. This man says he has my best interest at heart and he is trying to take care of me. However, there have been so many people tell me we don't like him or the way he acts and we only put up with him for you.

I don't know!
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-02-2011, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 48
Re: The leave and cleave dilemia

My boys are from my first husband.....who refused to help me in anyway at all.
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