The "Talk" and other stuff - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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The "Talk" and other stuff

OK, so a bunch of stuff here. An incident occurred in my school district where a boy (13-14yr old I believe) took his life. I don't want to go into too much detail since not everything that happened has been made official (although it appears most people in the community know what happened). However, it appears this boy and another attended a party a few days prior, the girl there passed out drunk, one of the boys decided to jerk off on the girl while the other boy video taped it and in some manner made the video public (which made its way to the authorities, etc...).

I ended up having a talk with my oldest son (9yrs old) since he had heard some of the details (although he had not heard about the sex act, just that the kid had his phone taken away, so he ran away).

So curious for the folks here, at what age did you start talking to your kids about sex? I felt like I needed to give my son more details as there were other issues that needed to be discussed, but left if at the boy peed on her (I honestly don't feel unless absolutely necessary that sex needs to be discussed with a 9yr old).

As far as everything else, the conversation with my son revolved about boundaries (showing respect for others), knowing right from wrong (not doing something to look cool or b/c of peer pressure, if you see something that you know is wrong leave and find an adult, etc...), and social media use.

The social media side I really had to hammer home with him since he does make comments on Youtube, as well as plays some of the other games which have a social community side to it. The moment you post anything online, text, etc... it is in the public for good, you cannot get it back. Likewise, if you are sent questionable material and share it, even though you may not have been involved in creating such material, you could very well be liable with some very serious ramifications.

You do have to wonder what was going through these boys' heads, did they have access to porn and that is where they got the idea from ....

What a great time to be raising children!

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 11:42 AM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 11:50 AM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

I hid and ran and left it to my wife to take care of it. My 15 year old son recently asked (briefly looking up from playing "Assassin's Creed") when he will be getting his period. I looked at my wife and walked out the room.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

Tragic Story but starting to become common unfortunately.

I remember my parents being frank with me about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. They were excruciatingly honest about details that had happened to them! TMI, but it worked out when I was at Christmas party years ago and cocaine was produced, I was able to say no thank you without feeling bad.


Peer pressure hasn't disappeared, probably a lot harder to say "no" these days being a teenager where "likes and hearts" count as validation.

As for the sex education, schools offer a biology based end, this isn't helpful because it's forgets about feelings and impulses.

Regarding the porn industry, should they be held accountable?
How will they restrict access to adults only?
How will young people know that this isn't a real representative of intimacy?
Who should tell them parents or schools or government?

I grew up in the early 2000s, I can't believe how much harder it is to be a teenager now.
They have access to unlimited data and information but the young human brain still lacks the ability to see future consequences of actions, so maybe that's another thing to look at.

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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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I got the facts of life at about 6. I was too young. I was kind of freaked out for a long time.

That said, I don't think you should tell your son that the girl in the video got pee'd on. That makes semen seem "dirty" in some way---that it has to be disguised as urine because it's so "bad". Does that make sense Ellis?

There's nothing wrong with giving your kids basic biological facts. And, like I said, my mother massively overshared with me when I was very young.

Wow, at a party of 13/14 year olds, a girl passed out drunk? That almost seems like the major issue to me.
Ya know, as to the bolded, I guess I should have used pooped instead of peed Just kidding, I was trying to convey that a "dirty" act was actually done in that specific instance, but wasn't about to start going into the finer points of masturbating. I get what your saying, but I don't think it makes semen itself dirty as it is more the circumstance which is what I was trying to hammer home. Then again, this topic just kinda got thrust on my W and I a bit earlier then expected, so always a learning curve since he is our oldest.

In general, the whole thing was seriously ***ed up. The kid who took his life was the one who videotaped and shared (led to a big missing persons search until he was found).

Agreed as well, there are a whole bunch of questions about the girl drinking, why were they unattended, etc...

What frustrated me, when this whole thing started (before the circumstances were known) the talk in the community was about suicide prevention (fair enough). Afterwards though, I didn't see anything about underage drinking, sexual abuse/misconduct, behavior on social media and consequences, etc... The topics that IMO are becoming a growing concern and probably impact more families just got brushed aside.
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:14 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

I talked with my son the summer between 4th-5th grade, because I wanted to have the talk with him before he got it from health class in school.

IMHO I wouldn't have told him "peed" either. I believe in parents always being open and honest with their kids, especially if they want to be able to expect it in return. What I do when I don't want to go into details is just tell my kids that they are too young for some details but I'll tell them in a few years if they ask me.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:31 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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Yeah, you are in a weird place. I mean, having to get into the birds and the bees with your child, because this kid took his life, and the sordid details of the party, etc.

Just throwing this out there.

"Son, you came from mom and dad's bodies. Moms have an egg and grow babies in a special place near their tummies. Dad's have a seed that they put in mom with their penis. When you get older, you'll find out that it feels good to touch your penis. When it feels that good, the seed comes out all at once.

The boy at the party did a goofy thing by making his penis feel good and making the seed go all over a girl who was asleep.

He shouldn't have done that. Making your penis feel good is a private, special thing. And that girl didn't know what he was doing to her, so that was wrong".


That probably sounds pretty dumb. But something *like* that can get the general idea across, without making sperm, the pleasant feelings of masturbating and sex in general seem like dreadful, sick, dirty things.

Then I guess on top of all this, you have to explain what suicide is, and why this boy committed suicide after doing this. I would hate for your poor kid to get the idea of sex and suicide somehow mixed up in his mind.

You have my sympathies, Ellis.
I just signed him up with a TAM account just so he can get the talk from your post

Agreed though, there was definitely room for improvement in the talk. I guess my W and I will use our oldest as the guinea pig so hopefully by the time we have to talk to the two younger kids we will have the talk down "perfect". I also still want to keep an open dialogue with my oldest as other things have come up of late that my W and I need to explain our decision regarding. One of his friends who is a girl had invited him over for a sleepover and we have told him no. He is getting to the point where maybe a few years ago for him it would have been fine but we are now creeping into that gray area. At the time we just left it at we didn't know the parents well (which is very true as well, we are not going to have our son stay over at just anyone's house), but naturally in this instance the additional questions came up b/w my W and I (Where is he going to sleep, how will the parents be supervising, etc...)

The scary thing about the original situation, it appears my son thought this kid took his life solely b/c his phone was taken away!
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:57 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

That's so sad and it's a lot for a kid to handle. Suicide, underage drinking, lack of consent, misuse of social media, etc. I don't have kids so I'm not sure what age is appropriate and how detailed the talks should be. My parents told me ZIP. I learned everything from school & friends but I certainly don't think I'd take that same approach if I had kids.

"Life always offers you a second chance. It's called tomorrow."
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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I remember my parents being frank with me about the dangers of drugs and alcohol. They were excruciatingly honest about details that had happened to them! TMI, but it worked out when I was at Christmas party years ago and cocaine was produced, I was able to say no thank you without feeling bad.
Never did drugs, never had any sort of interest in. Funny enough though, I would probably be more willing to try now (not that I would ) then I would have when I was a teen or in my 20s. What does that say about the effects of being a responsible adult lol!

Quote:
Peer pressure hasn't disappeared, probably a lot harder to say "no" these days being a teenager where "likes and hearts" count as validation.
Agreed. Plus, you have to keep upping the anti, so if XYZ video got so many likes, then the next person may feel like they need to step up their game (which depending could mean riskier behavior)

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Regarding the porn industry, should they be held accountable?
How will they restrict access to adults only?
How will young people know that this isn't a real representative of intimacy?
Who should tell them parents or schools or government?
Good questions, don't really know the answer except for the last one which I believe firmly this falls on the parents (however, I do recognize that the family dynamic is changing and there are kids who simply don't have a supportive family structure)

As far as the porn industry I feel they should only be liable to the point where they are using minors or they are shown to in some way or another targeting minors to view their content. I believe there was a push to have all sites have .xxx as the registered domain name which would make things a lot easier for parents to block sites

Quote:
I grew up in the early 2000s, I can't believe how much harder it is to be a teenager now.
They have access to unlimited data and information but the young human brain still lacks the ability to see future consequences of actions, so maybe that's another thing to look at.
Agreed, although I know quite a few adults who suffer from the same issue lol

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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 01:00 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

I have 3 sons... now 17, 14 and 11, and somehow my H is always mysteriously absent for all the tricky conversations (sex, drugs, alcohol, death).

My philosophy has been responsive for the most part... so waiting for them to show interest and then answering their questions, but not going further than that unless it seems necessary.

#1 got the first talk when he was 5. I was pregnant with #3 and he was full of questions about how I got a baby in my belly... and very persistent in asking. I've always felt was important to be truthful to establish trust. Who who knows what friends will tell them... but at least they know mom will always say it straight. I only told him the mechanics of the baby making....kept it matter of fact as he was so young. I couldn't have him thinking I ate his baby brother (that's what he thought).

#2 and #3 were much older probably 9-10 when we first talked in response to their questions.

I think of it as an on-going conversation. Over the years there have been several follow ups.

When a boy at the High School died from auto-erotic asphyxiation, we discussed that danger with the older 2 boys.

When I discovered #3 with the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, we discussed body image and and expectations of real women, and objectification.

When #2 got caught watching tentacle porn, we discussed the difference between fantasy and reality.

When #1 and #2 started dating, we discussed respect, urges, safe sex, and the value of waiting.

When news stories pop up, we discuss consent... a lot (the Stanford case sparked a lot of conversation).

Good luck!
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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 01:03 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

I am someone who believes in discussing all difficult topics honestly with children but in a way and to an extent that is appropriate to their age. I have noticed a trend with parents to be brutally honest with children about every aspect on life as we must be absolutely honest with the facts. But nothing made me cringe more than a woman explaining to her 5 year old daughter why uncle x had left auntie y because he was having sex with auntie z. They don't need to know those details at that age.

I think most of us instinctively know when our child is ready for learning about some of the more unpleasant realities of life. I remember having to explain to my child when she was at primary school what a pedophile was because 'bad man' just wasn't cutting it with her (one had been convicted on our street and she was hearing all kinds of false information in the playground). Not a nice conversation to have but it was necessary. Prior to that it was 'good touching bad touching' because that was all she could understand at the time.

Go with your instincts and remember it is not so much about age but the individual personality of the child.
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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

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That's so sad and it's a lot for a kid to handle. Suicide, underage drinking, lack of consent, misuse of social media, etc. I don't have kids so I'm not sure what age is appropriate and how detailed the talks should be. My parents told me ZIP. I learned everything from school & friends but I certainly don't think I'd take that same approach if I had kids.
Now that I think about it, I think I only got one talk from my Dad when I was a teen/pre teen using the whole Birds/Bees explanation, but IIRC I don't remember it really telling me a whole lot.

My Sophomore year of college my Dad drove me down so I could move in to my dorm room. I was helping do some volunteer work so I moved in a few days before everyone else. My GF at the time (eventually my W) was also there. My Dad stepped out for a bit to get me some supplies, so naturally my GF and I were being a bit handsy with each other in my room (we had only seen each other a few times during summer break since we lived in different states). My Dad sorta walked in on us (he didn't see anything, but he knew something was up). After he left I remember him calling me from his cell phone, almost sounded a bit panicky, to make sure I was "OK" and if there was anything I wanted to talk about.
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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

FYI - great discussion here, appreciate all the feedback

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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 01:20 PM
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Re: The "Talk" and other stuff

One thing I found very interesting was that in the US where sex education primarily focuses on abstinence, teens have more sexual partners per person than in the Netherlands, France and Germany, where sex education focuses more on contraception methods, sexual responsibility and healthy relationships and spends more time on those issues in sex education. Curable STDs are also found at MUCH higher levels in the US than in other industrialized countries. HIV is found at MUCH higher levels among teens in the US than France, Germany and the Netherlands.

I do think we need to start teaching our kids sex education INCLUDING respect for our own and other peoples' bodies INCLUDING consent at a MUCH earlier age than we currently are, because something is clearly getting lost in the shuffle. Ironically, the pressure from religious groups to avoid details in sex education for moral reasons, is having disastrous consequences on young peoples' health, futures and even survival. It makes me worry when I hear stories like this, OP, because while I struggle too with how to have appropriate conversations about relationships with my 3-year-old (he is clearly too young to be discussing sex), I do think treating sex as something dirty as they get older is ultimately bad. At 9 years old I would argue a lot of kids are ready to start having conversations about what to expect as they age, how relationships will change, how their bodies will change, and what appropriate treatment of their peers, male and female, looks like. Sexual assault and alcohol abuse will still happen, but I wonder if we began teaching our kids what is acceptable at an earlier age, whether we might avoid this kind of thing happening as often? Your poor son. I pity him for having this kind of thing going on around him. Maybe it's a teachable moment, but I don't envy the conversation you had to have with him. Thanks for being a good dad by having the conversation that made you feel uncomfortable.
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