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Wife forces kids into religious programs...

5K views 48 replies 20 participants last post by  NextTimeAround 
#1 ·
I've posted here in the past, it's been a while so will try again for a new perspective... my wife is devout Roman Catholic, we have raised all 3 kids "in the faith" as *required* by the RCC. Now that the kids are older 16, 13, 10, I feel they should have more of a say in churchy things, such as if they want to sign up for this retreat, or that program, etc. They still attend mass every week but it has gotten to be way over the top IMO... in fact, after a long fight with my wife, my oldest has already dropped out of the teen group and now my middle child (13) wants out but my wife threatens to make her life hell if she stops going. I find myself taking my daughter's side here as attending these extra-curricular events is not (or should not, at least) be a condition of her love and respect. When my oldest dropped out (about 6 mos ago), my wife actually said "Ok then don't expect me to go out of my way for you." Is that a horrible thing to say to your teen daughter, or what? My wife comes from a devout RCC family so it is very deep seated with her, but I don't understand how she can be so blind to what's happening. She is literally driving our kids AWAY from the church, God and (perhaps) any faith altogether... anyone have any experience or advice in these matters?
 
#2 ·
IMO, forced religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse. Do stick up for your kids and their rights to choose their own path.

My ex went back to the religion of her childhood, and tried to indoctrinate our son. In fairness, I let her do some and take him to church occasionally, but vigorously expressed my own opinions to him. Reason prevailed, eventually.
 
#4 ·
I have been standing up for them, it is part of the reason my oldest found the courage to drop out and now my middle one is following suit... due to my opposition to her forced religion over the years, we are mortal enemies at heart although we are cordial to each other most of the time. I can't leave the marriage until the kids are a little older because she could still do some damage if I am not here to defend them. It totally sucks, I have learned a lot but feel like I have wasted the best years of married life with someone who views her entire existence thru the lens of her holy Roman "ism."
 
#6 · (Edited)
So you live in a divided home. That's the lesson you are teaching your children.

I'm not sure that having your children attend some church activities is horrible.

I do know that having two parents who are at war with each other and who do not first come to agreement instead of openly fighting in front of the children is a very bad way to raise children.

Do you work a full time job? How many hours a day do are you at home parenting your children?

How many hours a day is your wife at home parenting? Does she have a full time job?

Honestly, your children would be better off were you divorce. At least that way it's clear that the two of you are not in agreement.
 
#9 ·
So you live in a divided home. That's the lesson you are teaching your children.

I'm not sure that having your children attend some church activities is horrible.

I do know that having two parents who are at war with each other and how do not first come to agreement instead of openly fighting in front of the children is a very bad way to raise children.

Do you work a full time job? How many hours a day do are you at home parenting your children?

How many hours a day is your wife at home parenting? Does she have a full time job?

Honestly, your children would be better off were you divorce. At least that way it's clear that the two are your do not agree of you are not in agreement.
Ha, if only it were "some" church activities... she is involved in youth ministry so she feels she needs to coerce our kids to many/most retreats/activities/programs to avoid the fact that kids no longer go for Imperial Romanism... a/k/a dominion theology.

I work full time, my wife part time. We parent equally, although she has more time to do so. I am youth coach and am involved in all aspects of their lives... my wife's sole contribution is espousing her RC beliefs, it is really toxic, I would say bordering on abusive--mental & emotional, even physical a few times but I put an end to that.

Divorce is an option when my youngest is about 13-14, right now she is still too impressionable to leave to a tyrant so I will stick it out for a while longer... the selfish part of me wants to leave now but my kids need me to balance out the toxicity.
 
#10 ·
Thanks WW, see my post below to EleGirl... I have been very frank with her and have tried firm, gentle and in between on numerous occasions. Nothing seems to work and you are right, she is clearly driving them away but she can't see it. I keep telling her that Jesus invites us, he doesn't coerce but she clearly prefers the Taliban approach... I am at my wits end, I try to be supportive of church/religion but I cannot sit back and watch my kids cry hysterically when forced to attend "another" function or face her never-ending wrath.
 
#11 ·
Keeping preteens and teens involved in as many church activities as possible will help to keep them out of trouble.

If they (the kids) are wanting to pick and choose which church programs they want to be involved in - that's great and she should be less rigid.

YOU NEED TO BE A UNITED FRONT - trust me on this.

Why do the children NOT want to attend? Identify and explore THOSE reasons - not yours.

If they aren't going to be involved in the church activities then perhaps get them involved in something else, charitable causes important to them, sports, cultural activities (music/theater/dance/martial arts etc)

The busier they are the more likely they are NOT to get involved in drugs and other things that detour a young life.


I am confused because your first post talked of Roman Catholic Church and then your last post spoke of "Jesus invites us" which is more of a fundamentalist Christian speak.

Are you involved in the Church? Are the kids biased because of your dislike or disdain for it? If so, then check your own motivations.

Might also seek council from your Priest or Reverand.
 
#13 ·
No child needs to be subjected to the autocratic desires of anyone who unreasonably tries to subject them to their own selfish desires! Plain and simple!
 
#14 · (Edited)
Sounds almost like my life when I was growing up. My parents were both Roman Catholic, with my Dad being the one who was more militant about us 4 kids going to church and being involved with the extra church stuff. When I was about 14-15, I knew that I wanted no part of the religious experience so I started going to church by myself - although I didn't really go. I'd walk down near where the church was and there was a big beautiful old New England cemetery that I would wander through and just spend the "church time" thinking about life.

All 3 of my siblings and I rebelled against the forced nature of our religious experience, and even now in my 50s I've had little contact and less desire for anything religious in my life. I'm OK with others wanting and needing that, but it's just not for me.

One other thing I'll add here is that I'm pretty sure religion played a significant role in my parent's eventual divorce. Sillyputty, you remind me of how I remember my mother dealing with religion while my Dad was similar to your wife. If you want to remain with your wife rather than divorce, it's going to be a difficult road for you. I'll leave it at that.
 
#15 ·
My parents made us go to church because they thought it was good for us. I never got a lot out of it and still don't.

My only tidbit to add to this conversation has to do with your daughters. In my experience, the girls who were raised in highly religious homes tended to be some of the wildest ones out there. The sometimes suffocating blanket of the church caused them to rebel through sex and drugs. If your daughters are not into the church, let them have a say and talk with them about it. Don't allow your wife to force them to find validation elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the wildness of church rebellion when I was younger (I dated a few, best sex ever). But now as a parent of two girls, I look and think about how my actions with respect to my kids may affect them. I'm not saying your kids will end up on a Girls gone Wild video, but consider their feelings & desires moving forward.

And for your kids sake, don't stay in a marriage that you all are openly fighting and unhappy. What exactly are you teaching them? Time to have a serious heart to heart with your wife and see if you two can find some common ground to work with and can reach some balance between life and the RCC.
 
#16 ·
Did you marry in the Church or with dispensation? If so, you were made aware before marriage that your wife was obligated by her faith to raise her children in the Church. Now, after the marriage and when the kids are in their rebellious phases, you side against your wife and her religious obligations? You have to understand that your wife is so militant about this because, to her, it's a battle for the very immortal souls of her children. If you think Momma Bears are difficult to deal with when their cubs are in physical danger, imagine how Momma Bear feels when her kids eternal souls are in danger. For your wife, this is very real.


Now, on to something more helpful.

Have you spoken with her priest and/or the DRE? Priests and DRE's have dealt with stubborn tweens and teens before. They may have some suggestions. I'd also like to echo another poster who suggested allowing the kids to choose their Church activities.

My DD is religious. My DS is not. I required Mass attendance, religious ed attendance, andd volunteer activities. DD was not a fan of the required religious ed classes, but she was quite happy to go on day retreats and volunteer to babysit the younger kids during events. DS, being not religious at all, had no desire to do ANYTHING, but I did require he at least volunteer. He got to choose how. He felt a passion for helping those less fortunate and found he enjoyed volunteering at the food bank. Maybe finding or creating a Church related activity the kids feel passionate about would help.
 
#18 ·
I agree with much of what you say here, including I'm okay with with her pursuing her Holy "ism" but there is no need to force feed it to your kids... as someone else mentioned she is driving them away from her church tradition, if not faith in general. I feel I need to stay in the marriage a while longer (2-3 years maybe), unless I feel like I can get primary custody of my kids... thanks for the reply.
 
#19 ·
We married in the church and I was aware of *some* of the teachings but like many/most who understand that Romanism is an imperial-based, self-serving trap, I honestly didn't think people took the teachings so seriously... my bad there I guess. I understand that she fears for her kids' immortal souls, that was Rome's intention when it made itself the arbiter of truth and the only agency to heal original sin. Sadly she can't be reasoned with due to the effective brainwashing.

"Have you spoken with her priest and/or the DRE? Priests and DRE's have dealt with stubborn tweens and teens before. They may have some suggestions. I'd also like to echo another poster who suggested allowing the kids to choose their Church activities."

Agreed, I am putting my foot down on letting the older kids choose... whether she likes it or not, sadly, that is where we are at.

There are some church activities the kids enjoy, and I support them going unless it appears to be some brainwashing event, which is rare but still happens from time to time. Pope Francis is not a fan of Taliban Catholicism so the tide is turning... ever so slowly of course, we are talking about RC here. Thanks for your reply.
 
#23 ·
You really need to learn to see your wife's faith in a better light. Tolerance, man. You love(d) this woman. You chose her to be mother to your children. You respected her faith enough to marry in her church. Her faith is part of who she is and it helped shape her into the woman you married and who raised your children with you. Try being a tad less hostile. If she perceives you as hostile toward her faith, she will be defensive and you'll just fight. If you are less hostile, more tolerant and understanding, you might be able to navigate this with a lot less hostility between you. Parents in peaceful agreement is better for the kids.

Catholicism is a lifestyle for some. Those people tend to be devout and they follow the Church's teachings and traditions as closely as possible. Others, known as "cafeteria Catholics" tend to pick and choose which teachings they follow and Catholicism is less a part of their day to day lifestyle. Sounds like you married a devout woman and thought you were marrying someone more casual in her faith practice. Yeah, your bad there unless she suddenly became devout around the time the kids were coming along. It's not unheard of for people to fall away from the faith of their youth and then feel the need to return to their faith once they have children of their own. That sudden return seems impossible to predict. If that's what happened, you couldn't have known.

Our schools require 20 hours of volunteer work per semester. For students in the National Honor Society the requirement is an additional 20 hours. Even though DS isn't interested in joining the Church, he is interested in getting his required volunteer hours and he likes the way helping people makes him feel, so... If your kids schools have something similar then having the kids volunteer at the parish seems like a way to get everyone to agree on participation. Sure, the kids aren't going "for the right reason", but thats ok so long as they go. It's up to them and God after that.

I replied to you below but I'm having a hard time figuring out how/what/where to post replies, has this forum grown more complicated since last time of is it just me?
Hit the quote button to quote a single post and the multiquote buttom to quote more than one post. Add your replies between tthe quoted bits.

I can't operate the forum in mobile view, so if you're on a droid or something I can't help.
 
#25 ·
Catholicism is crazy. I don't know anyone that came to that religion 100% on their own without being brain washed since they were 10 days old being baptized. Ha.

I'd say do you and your wife a favor, go have an affair and she can get the marriage annulled. Otherwise, she'll never divorce you because she'll fear she'll never see the pearly gates of heaven.

How often do you two have sex?
 
#29 ·
You are right, short of physical abuse and/or having an affair she is not permitted to divorce me (ahem, I mean seek a "decree of nullity"). That is the silver lining, I suppose, but I would much rather have an amicable, love-filled marriage with the mother of my children with all the time we have invested.

Sex has gone from once every couple weeks to basically non existent over the last 12 months. That is a whole other story/problem, I believe is also tied in with her devotion to Holy Mother Church.
 
#26 ·
I do enjoy reading @MJJEAN's understanding to the RC Dogma... very easy to understand and place perspective.

My first thought was "what would Jesus say in this situation"?

Tolerance is a great lesson... as is respect.

One day soon they will be able to make their own choices, share with your wife that with patience comes wisdom... and mercy.
 
#30 ·
Tolerance and respect are great but they only work if it is a reciprocal arrangement. RC is not structured that way, unfortunately, although they make claims to the contrary. Jesus would be very ashamed of the self-serving power structures created by imperial Rome which remain to this very day, albeit to a lesser degree.
 
#31 ·
woah, you are playing with fire here. Why not let her "force" the kids to get some religious training for the time being, and when they are 17 and go off to college they can stop, and start making decisions for themselves like adults. A little religious training is not going to kill them, no matter how much they ***** about it.
 
#32 · (Edited)
"Some religious training???" Mr/Mrs, you have no idea what you are talking about, if you pledge to raise your kids in RC there is no end to the "training," very little of which is actually based on the teachings of Christ. You would have to study church history in its totality to understand this. In addition to the emotional abuse, it is possible kids may never return to a more authentic faith so that would be spiritual abuse as well. Are you Catholic or do you belong to a less rigid/authoritarian denomination?
 
#35 ·
Hey @Sillyputty, I haven't read any of the replies yet, but what strikes me is that many religious people/groups say that they are accepting, respectful, inclusive, promote strength of character, etc., and yet, many people do not actually practice these.

Personally, I think that the treatment of your children by your wife is wrong in general, not just where religion is concerned. Your wife telling your daughter that she will make her life a hell if she drops out of her teen group doesn't sound very Godly to me; in fact, just the opposite! Teenagers may not be 100% equipped to make large decisions, but they are certainly capable of developing into their personalities, forming opinions, and they should feel safe voicing those opinions, especially at home, which should act as their soft place to fall, where they can feel safe being themselves. So no, I don't think that this should be a condition of your wife's love and respect for your children. And yes, I do think that the kid's opinions should be taken into account when signing them up for retreats and programs. This will certainly drive them away from the church!

I've posted here in the past, it's been a while so will try again for a new perspective... my wife is devout Roman Catholic, we have raised all 3 kids "in the faith" as *required* by the RCC. Now that the kids are older 16, 13, 10, I feel they should have more of a say in churchy things, such as if they want to sign up for this retreat, or that program, etc. They still attend mass every week but it has gotten to be way over the top IMO... in fact, after a long fight with my wife, my oldest has already dropped out of the teen group and now my middle child (13) wants out but my wife threatens to make her life hell if she stops going. I find myself taking my daughter's side here as attending these extra-curricular events is not (or should not, at least) be a condition of her love and respect. When my oldest dropped out (about 6 mos ago), my wife actually said "Ok then don't expect me to go out of my way for you." Is that a horrible thing to say to your teen daughter, or what? My wife comes from a devout RCC family so it is very deep seated with her, but I don't understand how she can be so blind to what's happening. She is literally driving our kids AWAY from the church, God and (perhaps) any faith altogether... anyone have any experience or advice in these matters?
 
#41 ·
Great replies everyone, thank you so much... very diverse too, I think I know my course of action but it is good to hear the different perspectives nonetheless. We will be having a "come to Jesus" moment soon as moonman suggests, I will post back to let everyone know the outcome if you are interested to hear... I can likely predict the outcome but I need to get all the cards on the table in order to say I gave it my all, this has been going on for a dozen years or more and there is only so much I can take before a broken family becomes preferable to an intact, miserable one. Thanks again for all your feedback!!
 
#42 ·
Look at the end of the day you protect your kids. You fight for them. If this is a type of abuse your damn straight you put your foot Down and fight for them. Doesn't matter if you win they will remember you fought.

Personally have no use for religion once I say how hypocritical they were in my divorce. And I don't raise my kids in it any longer. Without my support my x has trouble doing the same.

These are your kids. That's all that matters.
 
#47 ·
another aspect that you and your wife should be considering is the competitiveness in school.

I went to a high school that knew no boundaries when it came to homework. in high school, yes, 10 page papers were due on Monday. the stated goal was to give each student 30 to 45 minutes of homework each night.

Add to that extra- curricular activities and well, those students whose parents were keen on the kids succeeding.... I don't need to finish this.

Why don't you have a look at college applications and see what emphasis they put on things. I hear nowadays, volunteering is sought after. IS there a group at church that tries to channel the high school age parishioners into charity volunteering? But I'm sure there is usual, grades, test scores, leadership activities, accomplishments and so on. How much will hanging around the cathedral will that help your kids?

And I am sure that you will want kids to receive whatever they can in scholarships to defray some of the costs of university.

I wonder how much credit Georgetown or Notre Dame gives church going.

And also, we're in a relationship based economy. Any parent who makes it difficult for their child to make and maintain friendships is downright abusive. Networking is a sought after skill in business.

Hope that helps in some talking points with your wife and the counselor.
 
#48 ·
A little off the topic at hand, but that is one way to put a positive spin on it--they have lots of volunteer work, some against their will of course but it still counts, right? I like your point about being in a "relationship based economy." A valid point and although she doesn't discourage friendships outside of the church, she has not made it easy either. Un-churched families are looked upon with a disproportionate amount of skepticism, however good their values and personal demeanor appear to be... anyway, thanks for the feedback.
 
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