[nice777guy]

Posted about these issues here before in the Post Divorce section, but thought I might get some differen opinions here.

Quick re-cap:

Divorce final in February after 3 years of my then wife basically checking out of the marriage and the family.

Two daughters, currently 12 and 9 (b-days this month).

A month ago, OD (12) claimed that Mom hit her and called me at work screaming and crying. Mom called the police to protect herself against false accusations. Nothing came of the situation as there were no marks to support OD’s story. YD (9) didn’t see anything, except for the two of them fighting over the phone afterwards.

A few weeks ago OD called at night, crying and screaming again, saying Mom had called her a B I T C H, blew smoke in her face, and used pressure points on her shoulders to push OD down on the ground. YD saw OD on the ground with Mom standing over her yelling, but Mom claims OD tripped.

Last night it happened again. YD called and said Mom and OD were literally fighting. She said Mom had already called the police. I drive over as quickly as I can and arrive just before the police officer.

Hard to summarize things, but my Ex was yelling at me to get off her property – the officer yelled at the Ex to get back in the house. Oldest daughter then got mad at the officer and told him not to yell at her mother.

When OD talked back to Officer for yelling at Mom, he put OD in handcuffs and put her in the back of the police car, threatening to send her to juvenile detention for the night.

Officer told me that the story he heard from my Ex and YD matched – and that he could have charged OD with battery – but didn’t plan to.

Ex and I agreed OD would stay with me for the night and she is still at my house – home alone – while I’m at work today.

I have no clue what I can do here.

To me – ExW is totally capable of the kind of emotional abuse and minor physical abuse that OD has accused her of. Ex is also smart enough to know how to manipulate the situation to look good for a police officer.

OD only has these types of problems with her Mother. NO problems at school, with Gramma, summer camp, friends’ houses, etc., etc.,

My theory is that Ex has some sort of personality disorder and that OD feels unloved by Mom so she lashes out.

Have told OD repeatedly to not get physical or even argue with Mom – but just go to her room. But that’s a lot to ask of a 12 year old.

And sadly – at this point – I’m not sure I believe either one of them – Ex or OD.

Other than therapy – which we’ve done – any advice?

[angelpixie]

Crap, Nice, I'm sorry this is happening again. But it's bound to, with your ex acting like she is. It really pisses me off that the cop was ready to send OD to juvi. Sometimes it seems the police are more inclined to blame a kid, not realizing that they are lashing back, not just acting up.

It's likely that she is your ex's 'target,' and that she is being treated differently from YD. People with personality disorders often have one close person -- child, spouse, sibling -- that gets the brunt of their crap. I was my mom's. I rarely even talked back, much less yelled or got physical -- that just wasn't allowed by either parent.

In a way, though it's causing problems with the police, it's a good thing your OD is pushing back at her mother. The alternative is much worse on her psychically and primes her for later relationships with other disordered people. It shows that she still has enough sense of self to know that she doesn't deserve to be treated like crap.

You know ex's stories don't add up. If OD had really tripped, why would YD see OD still on the ground with ex standing over her. Why hadn't ex just helped OD up if she'd tripped? That doesn't ring true.

It's also going to drive a wedge between your daughters if YD is the one being used to validate the story of one over the other. She shouldn't be put in that position.

OD is 12, almost 13. She's still too young to have the rights to fully stand up for herself. But this is a really crucial time in her emotional development. It's really a good sign that she's not letting this overflow into other areas of her life, but it's only logical that it will at some point -- he11, it happens with adults, so why not kids?

Since you already know your wife is manipulative, and that people with personality disorders rarely a.) seek treatment on their own, and b.) rarely do the actual honest work to get better, your only choice is to try to protect your daughter the best you can. That may mean taking custody. At least for a while. If things get better with OD, that would pretty much indicate that it's her mom that's the problem. You may want to ask that her visits with her mom be supervised or at least attended by one other adult.

Best of luck to you, Nice. Neither you nor your girls deserve this.

[Deejo]

Demand the involvement of CPS if your ex is going to maintain custody.

Talk to a lawyer.

It's going to go there anyway, whether you like it or not.

Knowing what I know of your ex ... You need to be fully prepared to fight. HARD if necessary, but be calm, smart and cunning.

Your ex is once again, setting the agenda. And her agenda is to lay this entirely at the feet of your daughter.

[costa200]

Sounds like an episode from cops... Wouldn't want to be the agent called into that situation.

[Mavash.]

Wow that sounds like my childhood except my parents stayed married and nobody believe me.

Maybe I'm biased but I believe your daughter. And your ex (like my mother) can play all nice nice when she has to in front of others. Very few have ever seen what I jokingly call her 'dark side'.

I'm not sure what you can do. Where I live CPS is a joke. If a kid isn't starving or beaten they won't do anything. Your best bet is a lawyer to see if there is a way to start documenting all this to gain custody.

[working_together]

You might not like what I'm about to say, but I'll say it anyhow...I think your daughter needs to own some responsibility in her behavior with her mom. I think that a 12 year old who yells at an officer is a pretty extreme reaction, and ironically it's for yelling at her mother. Everyone is blaming the ex, and yes, she has a big part to play, but the dynamic between the two of them is dysfunctional, and I've seen it before, it will only get worse. You probably should get your daughter out of there, it's not healthy for anyone, the other daughter shouldn't be exposed to that sort of thing either, it's stressful, but also teaches her she can do the same sort of thing.

My ex and our 22 year old had a similar dynamic, hated each other almost. The ex left, and the relationship totally shifted. Sometimes it's about getting space. My older son did provoke it sometimes, he just refused to back down, and then the two of them would get into a huge power struggle.

And you just can't win with a teenager...they have a lot of energy, and parents end up losing it.

good luck

[Corpuswife]

Can your daughter stay with you for awhile?

I think it might be a good time for a break from OD and ex. Suggest that, if possible, to your ex about a break.

Obviously your OD is acting out/towards your ex. Is this something that happened pre divorce?