sole provider = how much say do i have? - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
Financial Problems in Marriage When financial times are tough, it adds to the stress we deal with on a daily basis. This section is for talking about how financial problems affect our relationships and ways to cope.

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post #76 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 02:09 PM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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I am glad you never advised me. My wife resisted going to MD. I got her there. My wife's depression is under control. She takes her pills every single day. I am not miserable. Wife is much better. It was not easy but we got there and I never regretted it for a moment.

But let's just write off OP as weak and his wife incurable and the kids with divorced parents can shuttle between two homes.
Glad your wife is doing well,

my advice was based on the posters wifes actions and inactions it appeared to me that he has tried multiple times to have her get help with much resistance and excuses.

with that said I hope your wife continues to do well and keeps taking her meds. I know for a fact that many people taking depression meds go off and on them and it can be very problematic.

its only advice he can decide for himself what advice to take or not take. I personally feel my advice was worth as much as your.

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post #77 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 02:32 PM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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Glad your wife is doing well,

my advice was based on the posters wifes actions and inactions it appeared to me that he has tried multiple times to have her get help with much resistance and excuses.

with that said I hope your wife continues to do well and keeps taking her meds. I know for a fact that many people taking depression meds go off and on them and it can be very problematic.

its only advice he can decide for himself what advice to take or not take. I personally feel my advice was worth as much as your.
You are right of course. OP will have to make his own choice and live with it. It won't be easy for him, either path.
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post #78 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 06:42 PM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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You are right of course. OP will have to make his own choice and live with it. It won't be easy for him, either path.
I hear you. life is full of tough choices. seems the older I get the tougher the choices get.
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post #79 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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I do appreciate everyone's advice. Yeah I don't want to do anything rash. I'm trying to figure out how I really feel inside about this. She's still being real calm and caring since I told her I was going to contact a lawyer. Gonna talk more about seeing a doctor and see if she is ready to do that yet.
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post #80 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 01:28 AM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

I would insist she talk to her doctor about depression.

There was a time when I was starting my own business and had very few clients - so it was like being unemployed - and I was very depressed. I would easily sleep 12 - 18 hours a day. Later I realized that not working/having a purpose actually depressed me. I've observed this in many others too. She thinks she's too sick and tired to work, but, ironically, her not working may be what is making her sick and tired. It sounds like she may be in a negative feedback loop.

Also, I've never raised children full time but I hear it can be more demanding/depressing than having a job. If she took a job she might perk right up.

She can work toward her goal of having a horse. Just because she may work today doesn't mean she will never retire. Even part time work might be good for her.

Anyhow, You have all the bargaining power you want to have. Things were one way when you agreed that she would stay home and raise the children. Now they are another way. What is happening right now is not working for you. Besides, she is not keeping up her end of the deal - I'm sure that her "raising the children" included cooking, cleaning, running errands, and being in a good mood for you.

I envision something like this:

You: This marriage is not working for me. I am not happy and it is affecting my health, even though I do not complain. I am no longer willing to work in a job I hate and sacrifice my health and peace of mind so I can be the sole breadwinner plus do most of the work around the house. I love you and I want our marriage to work, but this is not working and we need to figure out a new plan that includes my happiness. I know you have not been feeling well, but it's possible that if you take a job it will give you a break from the kids and more adult stimulation and you may find yourself actually feeling better. I also really want you to talk to your doctor about depression.
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post #81 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 01:50 AM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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Here's what you have to explain to your wife, holistic is great, but so is "Western" medicine." You need to find a doctor who is trained in both. Sorry, both sides feel they need to be against each other instead of working together.
Great point.

I really believe in holistic health stuff and I can tell that exercise, relaxation techniques, meditating, good diet, etc. make a difference. Supplements, I'm not sure. I've used some over the counter "natural" hormone creams with noticeable results.

However... when I finally went to the doctor for my menopause and depression and was prescribed "western" medicines (that are mostly natural plant stuff) the clouds parted and the sun shone down like you would not believe.

All the holistic stuff was and is great and an important part of being and staying well. But it's subtle. When you're clinically depressed or have thyroid/hormone imbalance - um, OMG, all I can say is there's no herbal supplement on earth that can right your ship the dramatic way actual hormone replacement and antidepressants can.

In addition to people feeling natural and western need to be "against" each other, I think some people believe that "if they were eating and exercising right" they would have perfect mental and physical health so it's somehow something they're doing wrong if they are depressed or hormonally imbalanced. Based on my experience, I really don't think that is true. Some people take terrible care of themselves and pay the price, but some people are just unlucky. Why suffer when there is safe medicine that can help?
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post #82 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 09:48 AM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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Ok so I asked her if we could go see a doctor for her anxiety and depression issues and an endocrinologist for her health issues. No was the answer. For her depression she "is taking all the right supplements to get her levels on track" and "seeing our therapist" for it. An endocrinologist can't tell her anything hat her naturopath hasn't already told her. She said she needs "us" to be better for her depression which I do agree with. But this looks like it's not gonna be easy to convince her to see some doctors.

I found a very affordable house in the ski area I like which is still not an unrealistic drive from my current job. While it's not horse property at least , unlike a condo, she can still have her Chickens and garden and indoor pets so not a complete shock to her world? She definitely wants to love away from the city. I kinda just want to go for it but afraid of the backlash.
Here's the thing, you've been taught to cater to your woman. Many men on this board are this way and many women give advice based on this antiquated belief. Marriage is about love, but it is also a partnership. When one of you is not pulling their weight, the other may need to step up and take control. Yes, even if it means putting the wife or husband in their place. Backlash? Are you seriously this ignorant of her manipulation? You do not sound like a mutually working couple. My wife is sick and the only reason she was diagnosed is I MADE HER GO. I got tired of her complaining, took her to the doctor and said here's the problem" and walked out. No, she doesn't have clinical depression.

See, depression is awful and a sickness, but IT DOESN'T trump everything. You can still cheat, lie murder, MANIPULATE, work, raise, kids, have sex and love while depressed. It's sad because when someone has a mental condition or a sickness everyone piles on the caretaker. No, you weren't being selfish when your wife, who wants to work less and is depressed, suddenly starts pressuring and manipulating you into buying a horse. I'd have said the same thing AFTER all of the history you've been relating. It's OBVIOUS you refuse to put your foot down. She refuses to try any other alternatives, but YOU are the selfish one when you point out she can't raise a horse with these problems. SHE is the selfish one for not seeking the proper help and manipulating the situation to her benefit.
So, she asks for things, talks about her sickness and throws all the problems back in your lap. You then do EVERYTHING to please her and now there is resentment on both sides. She depressed so, you need to be a better husband. Yet, you try to please her and you are the selfish guy because you want her to see a medical doctor. You keep accepting this garbage one of you is going to do something you'll both regret.

Last edited by phillybeffandswiss; 04-21-2016 at 09:55 AM.
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post #83 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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I envision something like this:

You: This marriage is not working for me. I am not happy and it is affecting my health, even though I do not complain. I am no longer willing to work in a job I hate and sacrifice my health and peace of mind so I can be the sole breadwinner plus do most of the work around the house. I love you and I want our marriage to work, but this is not working and we need to figure out a new plan that includes my happiness. I know you have not been feeling well, but it's possible that if you take a job it will give you a break from the kids and more adult stimulation and you may find yourself actually feeling better. I also really want you to talk to your doctor about depression.
This is almost verbatim what I have been telling her. More "out of the house" time would be good for her. She does get out and hang with her friends on my off time at work which is good although I am not a fan of her crowd. Unfortunately, I can't hang with my friends unless I bring the kids with me so it's always limited to who I hang with or what we do. Luckily I love taking the kids to do things. Yesterday I played teeball with the my youngest during the day, took both kids for a bike ride after school, then took them ice skating. I tell the Mrs. I do all this so she can get some rest but deep down I am feeling more and more that I am doing it just to get us away from her. That sucks to think that but I don't know if that feeling will ever go away.

Long story short yesterday, I had a mandatory meeting at work but only could make half of it because she wanted to volunteer for our daughter's project at school. I stayed at home with the youngest so she could do that. But for missing part of the meeting my boss wanted me to cover a partial shift that night that ended at 2am. So I didn't get to sleep til around 3am this morning. At 6something she asked me if I could make the kids eat and get them ready for school because they weren't listening to her and she didn't want to lose it on them. I agreed but I'm dragging now. Is it fair? I think I'd rather give up my sleep time in exchange for a peaceful morning though.
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post #84 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 10:08 AM
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sole provider = how much say do i have?

Once she realizes you bluffed about calling the lawyer, it's all over. She'll know you're not leaving and you'll fall for a little niceness. Anyway, if you're not a man who does what he says, how can you be trusted? So, have you made the appointment?
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post #85 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 10:09 AM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

OP, We know that you are physically, mentally and emotionally drained.

Take what ever action you need, but take action. No more talking to wife. If you think she has depression and can be helped, then get her to doctor now. If you think you need to go the route of separation, then start that. Or do both.

Something needs to shake up the status quo. If you do nothing, you will reach a point of checking out of the marriage and divorce is inevitable. Be active and make the right decision for you and your kids (and your wife) rather than just let the decision be made for you.

Stay strong friend.

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post #86 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 10:36 AM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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This is almost verbatim what I have been telling her. More "out of the house" time would be good for her. She does get out and hang with her friends on my off time at work which is good although I am not a fan of her crowd. Unfortunately, I can't hang with my friends unless I bring the kids with me so it's always limited to who I hang with or what we do. Luckily I love taking the kids to do things. Yesterday I played teeball with the my youngest during the day, took both kids for a bike ride after school, then took them ice skating. I tell the Mrs. I do all this so she can get some rest but deep down I am feeling more and more that I am doing it just to get us away from her. That sucks to think that but I don't know if that feeling will ever go away.

Long story short yesterday, I had a mandatory meeting at work but only could make half of it because she wanted to volunteer for our daughter's project at school. I stayed at home with the youngest so she could do that. But for missing part of the meeting my boss wanted me to cover a partial shift that night that ended at 2am. So I didn't get to sleep til around 3am this morning. At 6something she asked me if I could make the kids eat and get them ready for school because they weren't listening to her and she didn't want to lose it on them. I agreed but I'm dragging now. Is it fair? I think I'd rather give up my sleep time in exchange for a peaceful morning though.
Sorry, you really need to fix this garbage. This is ridiculous. How much of this "down time" do you and your wife spend together?
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post #87 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-22-2016, 12:15 PM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

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I think I'd rather give up my sleep time in exchange for a peaceful morning though.

You are giving up more than that brother. Everyone has their limits. You are getting over your limit. If you said to your W you are seeking a lawyer for guidance in D proceedings due to your W lack of wanting to do anything but have a horse then maybe your W will wake up. If you are just stalling than stop and go see a lawyer. Your W needs to become part of the answer and not be part of the problem. That is how marriage work.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #88 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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So an update. The past couple weeks I decide to try a different approach. I made it a point to hug her first thing every day and try and start a decent conversation. This was well received. We had good talks. I'm clearly in a midlife funk and I explained where I'm coming from and she explained where she was coming from. Good stuff. Things were turning for the
good. But yet again she lost it on me a couple days ago. Yelled at me in front of her friends. I just pretended it didn't happen. Didn't want to make it more weird for her friends. Last night we had another big argument. She claimed that I used her the other day (we had some relations for the first time in like a year) because she thinks I don't love her unconditionally. I think unconditional love is a tricky thing. There has to be boundaries IMO. I feel I have made it clear that some of her actions I cannot tolerate yet she still does them. Today is Mother's Day and I still had the kids help me make her a homemade card which she loved. She is a completely different person today. Confuses me how she can go from spewing such vitriol one night to being June Cleaver the next morning.

So I've been thinking about the unconditional love comment and it made me realize that what I've become is codependent. I am realizing now that everything I do is based upon whether it will make her happy or not. Sometimes my only two choices are both wrong.

Today was a good day (and Mothers Day) so I'm going to try and talk to her about this tomorrow if I can.
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post #89 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 11:15 PM
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Re: sole provider = how much say do i have?

Don't. Don't talk to her about your codependency. It serves no useful purpose than to further muddy the waters.

Talk less, do more.

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post #90 of 96 (permalink) Old 05-09-2016, 12:08 AM
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Has she seen a real doctor yet abiut her depression or her outbursts?
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