Financial Problems in MarriageWhen financial times are tough, it adds to the stress we deal with on a daily basis. This section is for talking about how financial problems affect our relationships and ways to cope.
I have a few questions about filing for divorce. I life in california, and I am about 99% positive that I will be filing for divorce. wife kicked me out about 4 months ago, due to me lying about my credit card debt. We have no communication at all, she basically cut me off. We have been married for 14 years,have a house that she already owned before we married, have a 22 yr old step daughter. Also the house is in her name. So basically I just want to grab my things and leave,clothes, tools. I dont want anything else. Everything on the carpet in the house we bought together, but I dont care. I am not the type that would make her sell things to get half the money. At this exact moment I am unemployed, but will probably have a new job her in next week making almost the same amount of money she does. Although my step daughter is not legally my daughter(never adopted her), I still want to help her as much as I can, I have always loved her as though she was my biological daughter. Can my wife take me for a ride for anything?? Alimony etc?? thanks alot
I have a few questions about filing for divorce. I life in california, and I am about 99% positive that I will be filing for divorce. wife kicked me out about 4 months ago, due to me lying about my credit card debt. We have no communication at all, she basically cut me off. We have been married for 14 years,have a house that she already owned before we married, have a 22 yr old step daughter. Also the house is in her name. So basically I just want to grab my things and leave,clothes, tools. I dont want anything else. Everything on the carpet in the house we bought together, but I dont care. I am not the type that would make her sell things to get half the money. At this exact moment I am unemployed, but will probably have a new job her in next week making almost the same amount of money she does. Although my step daughter is not legally my daughter(never adopted her), I still want to help her as much as I can, I have always loved her as though she was my biological daughter. Can my wife take me for a ride for anything?? Alimony etc?? thanks alot
Sounds like you're the only one in the driver's seat, and half of your debt is hers.
I recently finished a two year project of helping someone I know in California with their divorce. I did most of the legal paperwork as well as forensic accounting and proved that his wife was lying about her income, hiding a large sum of money and basically ripped him for most of their marriage. He tried to go through mediation with her but she would not tell the truth or cooperate, so in the end he did have to hire an attorney. Anyway my point being that I have a bit of experience now with divorce and California. He lives in the LA area. (If you live in the LA area I can give you the name of a very reasonably priced attorney… the one he used.)
Here’s the Cali courts self help site… it’s pretty good. Basics
Here are a few things…
Your step daughter is over 18 so she’s not a consideration at all.
All debt made before the marriage is separate debt.
All debt (not addressing mortgage) made during the marriage is community debt. So each of you gets to pay off 50% of the community debt.
Student loans are not sole debt. So if either of you has student loans it belongs to that person alone.
Assets acquired before the marriage are typically separate (sole) assets except where community income/assets were comingled with them. So add up all the money, investments, retirement accounts, that both of you have and you get 50%.
Separate assets (non-comingled money from before the marriage and inheritance) belong to the person whose name is on them.
If the two of you earn close to the same income then neither of you will owe the other support. However you are unemployed. Right now she would have to pay you spousal support. It’s about 1/3 of her gross income. For a short term marriage support could be ordered for up to ˝ the length of the marriage. In your case probably until you have a job or 7 years, whichever is shorter.
California uses the DissoMaster Software to determine basic spousal support and child support. The court mediators actually use it in court to for the calculation. Here is a link to a website that I used to determine support for my friend. The numbers this site came up with are to the penny what the court came up with. So they are good. Its $40 for 10 runs through the software over a 30 day period. That’s not to bad since the software is expensive.
Retirement accounts. You each are entitled to 50% of the funds accumulated in the both of your retirement accounts, 401K, etc.
There are two periods to consider… one is the period between filing when the divorce is final and the period after the divorce. The court will calculate any spousal support due during the interim period until the divorce is final. A recalculation would be done for after the divorce is final.
Now about the house, you are being foolish is you just drop any claim you might have to the equity in the house and home furnishings, etc. Let me explain why I say this.
So you decide to be a nice guy and not claim your portion of these things. Well you have a savings account right? She will most likely ask for half of your savings. She will also most likely claim that all of the debt you have is your sole debt because you accumulated it behind her back. She just might win that argument. There is the concept of squandering marital assets. She could argue that this is what you did.
So you could end up having to pay all of your debt, having to give her half of your savings and she keeps the house that you have been paying on for 14 years. … while you did not make a payment directly to the house community income was used to pay the house so yes you have paid half of that house… and probably on the furnishings as well.
Remember this is a woman who threw you out when you lost your job after all these years. Do you really think she is going to take the same fair point of view that you are? She’s also the one who tried to make sure that the marriage was set up so that only she got the title to a house that you helped pay for. I do not see a fair woman. Not by a long shot.
I really, really highly suggest that you exactly buy the California guidelines for your divorce settlement. And you insist no it throughout the divorce process. AT the end or even after the final papers are signed you can always give up something if you wish. But if you start out this process by giving up the farm… you will not even have the cloths on your back when her lawyer gets done with you.
I’ve seen so many people do what you are thinking to do.. Just walk away and leave it all to the spouse… and on the way out the spouse takes another large bit out of them. Later, after the emotional fog is over and they sit there totally financially devastated they sorely regret what they did. There is nothing noble about letting yourself be financially raped. (Raped might be a strong word but in some cases I’ve seen that’s exactly what happens.)
I recently finished a two year project of helping someone I know in California with their divorce. I did most of the legal paperwork as well as forensic accounting and proved that his wife was lying about her income, hiding a large sum of money and basically ripped him for most of their marriage. He tried to go through mediation with her but she would not tell the truth or cooperate, so in the end he did have to hire an attorney. Anyway my point being that I have a bit of experience now with divorce and California. He lives in the LA area. (If you live in the LA area I can give you the name of a very reasonably priced attorney… the one he used.)
Here’s the Cali courts self help site… it’s pretty good. Basics
Here are a few things…
Your step daughter is over 18 so she’s not a consideration at all.
All debt made before the marriage is separate debt.
All debt (not addressing mortgage) made during the marriage is community debt. So each of you gets to pay off 50% of the community debt.
Student loans are not sole debt. So if either of you has student loans it belongs to that person alone.
Assets acquired before the marriage are typically separate (sole) assets except where community income/assets were comingled with them. So add up all the money, investments, retirement accounts, that both of you have and you get 50%.
Separate assets (non-comingled money from before the marriage and inheritance) belong to the person whose name is on them.
If the two of you earn close to the same income then neither of you will owe the other support. However you are unemployed. Right now she would have to pay you spousal support. It’s about 1/3 of her gross income. For a short term marriage support could be ordered for up to ˝ the length of the marriage. In your case probably until you have a job or 7 years, whichever is shorter.
California uses the DissoMaster Software to determine basic spousal support and child support. The court mediators actually use it in court to for the calculation. Here is a link to a website that I used to determine support for my friend. The numbers this site came up with are to the penny what the court came up with. So they are good. Its $40 for 10 runs through the software over a 30 day period. That’s not to bad since the software is expensive.
Retirement accounts. You each are entitled to 50% of the funds accumulated in the both of your retirement accounts, 401K, etc.
There are two periods to consider… one is the period between filing when the divorce is final and the period after the divorce. The court will calculate any spousal support due during the interim period until the divorce is final. A recalculation would be done for after the divorce is final.
Now about the house, you are being foolish is you just drop any claim you might have to the equity in the house and home furnishings, etc. Let me explain why I say this.
So you decide to be a nice guy and not claim your portion of these things. Well you have a savings account right? She will most likely ask for half of your savings. She will also most likely claim that all of the debt you have is your sole debt because you accumulated it behind her back. She just might win that argument. There is the concept of squandering marital assets. She could argue that this is what you did.
So you could end up having to pay all of your debt, having to give her half of your savings and she keeps the house that you have been paying on for 14 years. … while you did not make a payment directly to the house community income was used to pay the house so yes you have paid half of that house… and probably on the furnishings as well.
Remember this is a woman who threw you out when you lost your job after all these years. Do you really think she is going to take the same fair point of view that you are? She’s also the one who tried to make sure that the marriage was set up so that only she got the title to a house that you helped pay for. I do not see a fair woman. Not by a long shot.
I really, really highly suggest that you exactly buy the California guidelines for your divorce settlement. And you insist no it throughout the divorce process. AT the end or even after the final papers are signed you can always give up something if you wish. But if you start out this process by giving up the farm… you will not even have the cloths on your back when her lawyer gets done with you.
I’ve seen so many people do what you are thinking to do.. Just walk away and leave it all to the spouse… and on the way out the spouse takes another large bit out of them. Later, after the emotional fog is over and they sit there totally financially devastated they sorely regret what they did. There is nothing noble about letting yourself be financially raped. (Raped might be a strong word but in some cases I’ve seen that’s exactly what happens.)
More to follow
Elegirl,thank you so much for taking the time to share all that information. This was very informative.. I will have to find a good attorney,but I live in san Diego. One thing about the house I never helped buy it,she had it already,but there was a period that I helped pay on the mortgage. The house was eventually paid off by money my wife made selling a rental property she had. I did spend a lot of money over the years fixing up things,etc. The big expensive projects she paid half,but all the other yard projects etc I paid for..I am very angry with her for kicking me out for 4 months so far. Like she wants me to drown. I will definitely consider what u said about not just walking away.. I guess its hard cuz I'm not a malicious person,and I do still care,and I worry I could damage relationship with my stepdaughter,thank god she is away at school. Although I screwed up a few times financially,she did kick me out with no job,and little $$. I bet if I was homeless she wouldn't care. Posted via Mobile Device
Also do u think its possible my wife is stalling to file for divorce till I get a job? So maybe she will have better chance of getting money out of me..Every few days or so my daughter calls me to see how I'm doing,and if I got a job yet. Then she calls my wife right after!! I check cellphone records.. so I know she tells my wife everything...maybe I'm wrong.It's crazy how my wife cuts me off and all the little things she's done,taken pictures down etc,and knowing it'll take me long time to clean up my debt(first step in mending relationship according to her). As it is now can't survive paying bills at home and my own bills and not living there.Just doesn't seem like she wants to work out,and I'm going broke Posted via Mobile Device
Elegirl,thank you so much for taking the time to share all that information. This was very informative.. I will have to find a good attorney,but I live in san Diego. One thing about the house I never helped buy it,she had it already,but there was a period that I helped pay on the mortgage. The house was eventually paid off by money my wife made selling a rental property she had. I did spend a lot of money over the years fixing up things,etc. The big expensive projects she paid half,but all the other yard projects etc I paid for..I am very angry with her for kicking me out for 4 months so far. Like she wants me to drown. I will definitely consider what u said about not just walking away.. I guess its hard cuz I'm not a malicious person,and I do still care,and I worry I could damage relationship with my stepdaughter,thank god she is away at school. Although I screwed up a few times financially,she did kick me out with no job,and little $$. I bet if I was homeless she wouldn't care. Posted via Mobile Device
The paper she had you sign aside as that still needs to be evaluated by an attorney..
You would own half of the equity that has accrued in the 14 years of your marriage. The source of money, such as her selling rental property for the payoff would also have to be looked at… there is a good chance that the community income/assets were put into the rental property so those were convert to community assets as well. There’s a bit to sort out here. If you handle this right, she will have the burden of proving that they were not community assets. You can do all of this without being a vulture.
In my divorce from my son’s father, for example I knew that he had moved money that I had earned while he was in medical school into accounts in his mother’s name. He also paid years of his mother’s mortgage with my earnings. I had the cancelled checks. He wanted to sell our home and take half of the equity. Well he already had more than that in cash that he had hidden from the marital community. So I had my attorney write up something asking for half of his mother’s house since I could prove that I was invested in it. I had no intention of taking an old lady’s house. I was playing chess. Well he ended up signing our house over to me. He and his mother got to keep her house. And he kept the cash he had hidden/stolen from me.
Just keep up contact with your daughter. Keep helping her and taking care of her. Remember that the more you get/keep in the divorce, the more you have to help her. If her mom gets it all… you will look like the selfish dad who will not help her. If you really feel like her father you will want to have something to help her and something to leave her. So fight for it.. just try not to get into WWIII
Also do u think its possible my wife is stalling to file for divorce till I get a job? So maybe she will have better chance of getting money out of me.. Every few days or so my daughter calls me to see how I'm doing, and if I got a job yet.
Since you are unemployed, it’s most likely that your wife is waiting for you to get a job so that she will not have to pay YOU spousal support. Right now she would probably be on the hook for giving to about 30% of her gross income.
Your wife has probably already planned this all out with her attorney. Remember she used one to try to make sure that you have no rights to the house you helped her pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishKing
Every few days or so my daughter calls me to see how I'm doing ,and if I got a job yet. Then she calls my wife right after!! I check cellphone records.. so I know she tells my wife everything...maybe I'm wrong.
She’s just being a kid. Just do not tell her anything. Keep telling her that you have put out a lot of resumes and are going to interviews and are sure that any day now you will get a job. Then change the subject to her. Your wife has a lot of nerve using your daughter to get info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishKing
It's crazy how my wife cuts me off and all the little things she's done, taken pictures down etc, and knowing it'll take me long time to clean up my debt(first step in mending relationship according to her). As it is now can't survive paying bills at home and my own bills and not living there. Just doesn't seem like she wants to work out, and I'm going broke.
Just curious, what kinds of things did you make this debt over?
If I were you I would go over the house when you know she is not there and get copies of every bit of financial paperwork. Make copies of it then put it back the originals of things in her name only. Keep the originals of things that have your name on them, even if they are joint. Even copy old check books. Get copies of titles to her rental property… any bank and investments that are in her name only. And of course everything in your name as well.
Take a camera with you and get photos of everything you can in the house and take your things.
Go get an attorney, file for divorce and for interim spousal support. You are not 100% sure you have a job yet right? Don’t tell her you are doing this. Have her served.
You may or may not have been wrong with the debt. But her behavior is not exactly lily white at this time. Look you helped he pay off her house, do upgrades on the home, maintain her rental homes, helped raise her daughter and even help to support her daughter in college… and she cannot even help you when you are unemployed? Get real!
It totally makes sense that she is waiting till i get a job to file for divorce...My daughter asks me weekly if ive got a job, and I always sat not yet, and she calls my wife later. I am about 99% sure on this job, just waiting for salary package, but I wont tell either of them. I ran up my credit cards 2 diff times. first time was mostly from crap prior to our marriage, and the second time was you name it. Xmas presents for several years. Bought my wife the home surround sound for xmas 1 yr,expensive. Going out to dinner many times,she thought i was using debit card,but it was amex card. Many things for the yard on credit,and alot of stuff for myself. It was a mix of things. I am working on my bad habits, and learning to pay cash now... I think I made a mistake today though, I texted my wife and told her I was coming by tomarrow to get rest of my stuff, she said she will be home,hmm. Still gonna get my things, I will feel better once all my stuff is gone, already got a storage place set up.Not gonna say much to her when I go over,just that I cant afford to help support her with anything, and have to take care of myself.. Not gonna let me come home, gotta take care of myself..
When you tell her that you cannot afford to help pay her bills, I'm sure you will get grief from her.
It might be wise to wait until you safely have your things out of the house. Me? I'd send an email. That way you have a record of what you told her for legal purposes incase it cames up.
I don't know if there is any chance at all of things getting out of hand but if there is telling her via email would eleminate that possibility as well.
update: so I went to my house to get my stuff, and figured my wife was at work. She was home, and I thought crap!!! I was so scared what was going to transpire.. SO we started talking about things, and I was way off course with what I thought..We talked for about 5 hours and even went to lunch together..I told my wife i was sure she filed for divorce and that she was done, She said nope i didnt file for a divorce.I also told my wife that i am in trouble right now financially and cant pay all these extra bills..I waited for her to get mad,but she didnt. She said that is very noble of me and she really respects me for trying to still pay those bills even though I am struggling.So we are going to work that out and see what she can pay and what I can pay. My wife told me that she hopes things work out,just she needs some time to heal, and said lets just see how things go. We both decided that we will not yell at each other, and be respectful to one another..I could tell my wife was really happy to see me!! I told her it would be nice if once in a while we hung out or went to coffee, walk the dogs etc.She said ok. Since that day I went over there, I think I have talked to her 3-4 times. So we are opening the lines of communication. In a way we are starting over,First just being friends, then start dating and so forth. We are going to take baby steps. Im actually glad that she was there that day. after the initial conversation, we had a great time at lunch, and were both laughing and almost felt like old times. I think I really mis-judged her, and the pressure from my family almost made me make a rash decision. I was spending so much time thinking about what she was doing, and my dad opening his mouth and pressuring me to make a decision. We even both agreed that if in the end we dont think things will work we will be great friends.So there is hope yet, and I am really happy
This is good to hear!!! The best resoution would be for the two of you to patch things up.
I'm also glad that you updated on your progress. I've been wondering how you are doing.
You might want to take a look at the books linked to in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage. I think that they would help the two of you get your marriage back on track.
california divorce question 
