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post #106 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:09 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
You know I adore you but I beg to differ on the underlined.

Thoughtless and selfish, yes.

But it is not something done specifically to bring pain to the other. That is how I define cruelty. I don't believe most people who have an affair do so specifically in order to inflict pain on their spouse.
And on that I'll simply have to disagree. Anything that causes great pain, intentional or not, IMO, is cruel.

And no, I don't think the intention when cheating is to cause pain to your spouse(although I'm sure some might intend just that). But they know it will hurt them and know they shouldn't be doing it. Therefore, its cruel.

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post #107 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:46 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by vellocet View Post
I agree with regards to MJA and EI, and those like them(although few and far between)

But I think some slack should be given when calling out the blameshifters, gaslighters, and "Its my spouse's fault I cheated" crowd.
I know I can be harsh but I do try to attack the ideas, not the person. Still, it gets me in trouble sometimes and I suppose I'm seen as a b!tch to certain people around here.

The thing is, I try to take my ego out of it when I disagree with someone or someone disagrees with me. I don't take dissenting opinions as a personal value judgment of my worth as a person but I don't think everyone else can do that.

So I am guilty of projecting that expectation onto other people. Even though I try to make it clear that I'm only disagreeing with a statement or opinion, I can think of two posters recently that seemed to think I was attacking them personally or found them as people - not their ideas offensive (which I don't).

I agree that CWI can be a real zoo. I think the further one is in their own healing process, the better they are at being more objective towards others situations. I know when I was new here, I probably projected some things too out of hurt more than I should have.

MJA, you have a lot more patience than I have when it comes to handling CWI and answering to those interrogations repeatedly. I know I couldn't do it.

"Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger wind, the stronger trees." ~ Douglas Malloch
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post #108 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:18 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Mrs. John Adams View Post
I know you hate it there babe..because you are a doer! You have picked yourself up in times of despair and healed yourself! You are a remarkable woman! You have my respect and my loyalty. I like straight shooters...I appreciate honesty. You stand up for what you believe in and you do not cower to those who attack you. I am learning from you love! Thank you!

I've learned a ton from both of you! You are both amazing.

ETA: Mrs.JA. You have nothing to cower from and plenty to offer some people. If your opinion isn't valued by some members ignoring it is an option for a reason. Personally you, the Mr. And Anon helped a ton.

So while Mr. JA is more than capable of defending himself you are always respectful and consistent in defending him and YOUR story .

Last edited by kristin2349; 03-20-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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post #109 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:33 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
You know I adore you but I beg to differ on the underlined.

Thoughtless and selfish, yes.

But it is not something done specifically to bring pain to the other. That is how I define cruelty. I don't believe most people who have an affair do so specifically in order to inflict pain on their spouse.
Isn't it still cruel to know that something will cause pain and do it anyway?

I am not picking on Mrs. Adams here-lord knows I am no saint. I just believe that all the deception is certainly cruel.

I adore Mrs. Adams too.
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post #110 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Mrs. John Adams View Post
Yes..I admit I overreacted to you jb...I took what you said personally. I apologized.

I have let it go. I tiptoe quietly around you. You have been here a long time. I am learning your online personality. Many times I agree with your wisdom....and sometimes I don't. That's ok.we all have a right to our own opinion. I am not your enemy. I meant you no harm. I know you think I was after you...I was not.

Now I am extending a handshake of peace to you. I will leave you alone...I will not attack you...I will not offend you...I will not argue with you.

I am not a fighter...I do not like confrontation. It took everything in my being to fight with you. I hate it. But I will not cower to you.

I can continue to ignore you...or we can put this past us and move on...and maybe even be cordial to one another.

The choice is yours.
I think it is very kind of you to offer peace. You seem to express vulnerability easily which is admirable. I have learned not to be vulnerable as that has led to people taking advantage of me.

What a loving and sweet lady you are.
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post #111 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:13 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

I NEVER respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues.

I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.
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post #112 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:22 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by pidge70 View Post
I NEVER respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues.

I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.
Holy Smokes, Pidge. Christian like the Spanish Inquisition.
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post #113 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:25 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Holy Smokes, Pidge. Christian like the Spanish Inquisition.
I know right?
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post #114 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 04:08 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Miss Taken View Post
As someone that frequents CWI, I wish that more WS's would post there but I can fully understand why they don't. Too often people posts threads, specifically asking WS's to respond and then it becomes a witch-hunt.
Once you've been on the website a while, you realize how deep it can go.

Often the worst stuff is deleted by moderators. Quite often a WS will come, post and then delete their posts and go away after they are piled on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Taken View Post
Instead of listening even if one disagrees, a lot of projected hurt gets flung around at WS's instead of directed at one's spouse where it usually belongs.
It's no excuse, but the reason often is that a WS here has the remorse over their actions that the BS doesn't get from their own WS.
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post #115 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 04:38 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by pidge70 View Post
What is really great, he left the forum
And hopefully he never returned.




Sigh, my wife gives me the speaking treatment.
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post #116 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 04:39 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by larry.gray View Post
It's no excuse, but the reason often is that a WS here has the remorse over their actions that the BS doesn't get from their own WS.
I personally don't get projecting resentment at one's own unrepentant spouse onto a third-party repentant spouse. My feeling is the opposite: I have embraced the remorseful WS as paragons of what might eventually be in my own situation (and indeed have seen this happen, to a large extent anyway).
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post #117 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 05:40 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by Philat View Post
I personally don't get projecting resentment at one's own unrepentant spouse onto a third-party repentant spouse. My feeling is the opposite: I have embraced the remorseful WS as paragons of what might eventually be in my own situation (and indeed have seen this happen, to a large extent anyway).
That's certainly a more helpful and nice approach to take.

The projection comes from deep seated anger. They want to yell, be mean and nasty to someone who cares. They're not getting that from their own WS.

We've been using the terms BS and WS, but this dynamic is more BH and WW because it is all about anger. Angry, betrayed men. I haven't seen this anger directed at WH by BW here.

What made it clear to me what was going on was the way Tears was treated. Often the excuse is "we have to shocker her into realizing what she did." Some WW come here angry and unrepentant. Yes, I saw that from EI at first, and some level they need to hear some 'tough love.' Tears came here loaded with remorse from day one. She owned it all. No blaming anybody but herself. Yet we saw some rather nasty posts to her, several posters banned and so on.
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post #118 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 10:57 PM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by CharlotteMcdougall View Post
Isn't it still cruel to know that something will cause pain and do it anyway?

I am not picking on Mrs. Adams here-lord knows I am no saint. I just believe that all the deception is certainly cruel.

I adore Mrs. Adams too.
No, we do things on a regular basis that cause pain to others. I don't believe it cruel unless the intention is to inflict pain. People who cheat don't INTEND to inflict pain. They INTEND to never get caught. Their INTENTION is to NOT inflict pain by keeping their spouse in the dark. Please do not follow this up with all the usual fluff that follows about fog and about lying and about loss of trust.

I intend to have that prime parking spot so I cut you off and block you to that I can have it. Yet, you are having some serious leg pain from a wound and now you must walk the 5 blocks while I, healthy as can be, take a few steps. It was cruel of me to make you walk...if I had know of your circumstance yes. That would imply intention. Something lacking in most cheating spouses.

They don't intend to get caught. They don't intend to be consumed in guilt and remorse. They intend the confession to promote healing. The pain caused was not intentionally caused, no matter how intentionally they lied about it.
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post #119 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 08:50 AM
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Re: Harsh posters

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Originally Posted by pidge70 View Post
I NEVER respond to a thread asking for a WS's opinion. I know all too well the sh!tstorm that usually ensues.

I deleted my original thread due to a "Christian" poster being extremely obnoxious to me. What is really great, he left the forum and in his "goodbye" thread, he said "Pidge70: Give thanks to God, because whatever punishment He exacts from you in this life is far less than what you have incurred." Doesn't seem to "Christian-like to me.
That is just brutal. I don't blame you for not answering those threads. I wish there wasn't so much lashing out in those threads.

Thank goodness that "Christian" poster left. What a psycho. It's a shame that some people use their belief in God to attack others. Some of my immediate family members are like that and it's spiritual abuse IMO.

"Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger wind, the stronger trees." ~ Douglas Malloch
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post #120 of 128 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 09:47 AM
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Re: Harsh posters

Some WS cheat for themselves without thought of their spouse. Some cheat because they don't care if it will affect their spouse and the opportunity is there. Some cheat because they don't understand what it will do to their spouse. Some cheat because they think it is their right.

There are as many different reasons as there are WS'. In the end, most, but not all BS' are very much harmed by the infidelity. It lasts a lifetime for, dare I say most? It doesn't seem to matter what the reason for the betrayal was. It just matters, in most cases, that there was a betrayal.

This thread exploded. Harsh is an opinion isn't it? Some would say the denial of responsibility in the affair is harsh. Some say any denial or justification is harsh.

The methods used here to get to the bottom of the problem are harsh. There are many here who want to have a better marriage after an affair. The methods used here were what was in place when I got here. They have continued. Has it worked for anyone? I don't know. I do know that rugsweeping will not work. It just places a ticking time bomb in the marriage.

What probably is best, is to just divorce after infidelity. It can never be taken back. It's pretty much like all the threads started on penis size to hurt someone. Those can't be just to discuss what is acceptable, because almost any size is acceptable. It depends on the individuals involved. Don't you think those are harsh threads?

How about the threads on bewb size? Who starts those and why? When a question is asked and answered directly, it is thought to be harsh. Well, maybe it's not harsh, it's just answering the question directly without using kid gloves?

In those instances, wouldn't the best thing to do be to help the member to understand how to implement better communication? Yet, not once that I remember, has anyone ever stopped the thread and talked about communication. They go on for twenty or more pages. What does that say about the whole atmosphere here?

I think we all need to look in the mirror. Judging is rampant. Seems like that is expected. Also, many times, the best way to get out the facts is to challenge folks. Not always, but many times it takes those harsh challenges to bring out the real issue behind the infidelity. If that's not addressed, how can a person be helped?

Anyway, this site was not invented, I don't believe, to be a place to congregate and gossip. While it's normal for folks to decide they are better than others, it's something for a new member to consider when they come here. The evidence of cliques and gossip is all over this site. I'm sure you can point to an instance of me doing it, as well. I've certainly tried not to do that, but I am human.

I'd be very concerned if the thoughts about infidelity change too drastically. It's harmful to people. There is malice involved. There is planning. That in itself proves that a WS knows it will hurt or harm their spouse. Therefore, it's something done with the knowledge that it will do harm. If that isn't done intentionally, I don't know what is.

I hope you all can read and understand this one day. I'd appreciate a little less provocation from this coven. I hope I've described you fairly. There was a post made in this very thread by a member talking of the coven being formed. Seems like the mods should have read that. I'm sure they have their eyes on this thread. I know, I was shocked when I saw those posts about becoming a lynch mob.

I think it's time for the mods to delete this thread. It won't get any better. It will likely deteriorate further. I think that's bad for the reputation of this site.

I have had many days of thought and reflection because of what many of you in this thread have posted in the past. What I read here and what I read in the now deleted, "troll", thread shows me a side I don't really like. Mods, do you think it's time to think about this? I don't think this is helpful to any new members who might be concerned about telling the truth and being vulnerable. Vulnerability is a key to a good relationship. How do we reward that?

Obviously, folks need to be called out when there is infidelity. Both sides need called out. We can only know what is posted by the one who comes for help. Many times, that't the BS. They are the one who does not know how to handle it. The WS usually has made the decision to throw away the marriage long before they actually had the affair.

There is a pile of stuff to think about. I don't know how anyone can understand in the least, if they have not been through it themselves. I don't know how anyone can fully understand it if they have not walked in the shoes of the other.

Sometimes, members were told to send their WS or BS here for help. In some cases, that was done to allow members who knew the former spouse to have a chance to rip them apart. It does happen. Those cases are few and far between, but I've seen it. You can always tell because there is little help given to them. They are generally just asked their side of the story and once told, are dropped on their ass.

If you have not been around for a while, or spent your time figuring out the best lubrication for sex or the best way to have multiple orgasms, and not how to figure out the most important part of any marriage, love, trust, vulnerabililty, communication, support, and on and on, sex will likely not help you to keep your marriage.

Sex skills can be learned. There are members here who have been so dedicated to their marriage and spouse, they learn how to have orgasms when their spouse has severe ED. Those are the folks who should be respected. They could be unfaithful, but I doubt they will. They will leave their marriage first, giving their spouse a chance at recovery and a decent life after the marriage ends.

How many have promoted that concept? How many have just gone and ripped a member apart for that opinion? Take a look. You'll see what I mean.

That's all for now. I expect a flurry of activity like in high school, but I hope that isn't the case.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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